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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: United States President: 2008
Thread: United States President: 2008 [ This thread is 90 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 (85) 86 87 88 89 90 ]
OmegaDestroyer
OmegaDestroyer

Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
posted November 20, 2008 11:51 AM

Quote:
Then why do you DEFEND that world? Everyone defending THAT world of politics is supporting it.


I'm not defending it.  That's a fact.  Politics is all about taking glory and deflecting.  You should know that, Joker.

Why Clinton and not Bush?  Here's why.  The Republican Congress was more rabid in taking down Clinton than the Democrat controlled Congress today is with President Bush.  Under Senate Majority Leader Reid and House Speaker Pelosi, Congress has become weak which allowed President Bush to expand the powers of the executive branch.  They failed to check his actions.


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Consis
Consis


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
posted November 20, 2008 12:00 PM

Wow....

My god this thread has grown since I last saw it! I didn't see that coming! I didn't think anyone but myself, wolfman, peacemaker, and the_gootch cared about this stuff???
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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted November 20, 2008 12:13 PM

Quote:
Liberal America haters deny all facts and continual makes false allegations and will only accept "America sucks" statements.
Excuse me, we deny all facts? We all pointed out either links (I did to a thread) or threads to articles. Obviously you ignore them and YOU claim that your articles have more weight or something, since you say that we just say "America sucks". nocaplato's post was a lot longer than just these two words you know?

Quote:
In perfect world there would be no torture. But I would rather tortue than have terrorist blow up millions and millions of people.
Yeah terrorists called Americans...

Quote:
Perhaps you think it preferable to have simultaneous bombs set off in 3 biggest US cities than have a few terrorist tortured. Such view is quite idealistic but is ignorant of real world that have real consequences.
Well they are fighting "terrorists", aka the Americans, and the Americans are fighting terrorists... why would you have more sympathy to Americans if you don't have to terrorists?
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Mitzah
Mitzah


Promising
Supreme Hero
of the Horadrim
posted November 20, 2008 01:50 PM
Edited by Mitzah at 13:53, 20 Nov 2008.

Elodin..dude..how old are you ? Damn, I'm so sorry for posting here 'cause it's a waste of time..I bet you're evangelical or somethin'

Have a nice discussion guys! I'd recommed not posting here anymore because..what was that saying again..Ah yes: Don't bother describing an apple to a blind man becuase he still won't see s#&t!
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted November 20, 2008 02:16 PM
Edited by JollyJoker at 14:23, 20 Nov 2008.

@Omega
Quote:
Quote:
Then why do you DEFEND that world? Everyone defending THAT world of politics is supporting it.


I'm not defending it.  That's a fact.  Politics is all about taking glory and deflecting.  You should know that, Joker.



You field it as a point. If that's your point is just like, well, the world is unjust and evil. Why discuss anyway? Things are like they are.

@Elodin
Quote:
America bashers out in force today I see with their silly accusations.
You are mistaking America with its government. If a country was its government I wouldn't exist because you'd have had to eradicate Germany and all the Germans from the face of the world a couple dozen years ago. Moreover lots of people would bash on themselves since many Americans are saying the same. Crying America bashers when people are critisizing the actions of a government is plain silly and polemic. It's not even worth a discussion.

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Binabik
Binabik


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted November 20, 2008 02:19 PM

Mitzah, you are off topic and spamming the thread with your garbage. If you want to believe your ludicrous ideas, fine. But take it someplace else. I'm sure there are plenty of conspiracy forums with lots of foolish nut-cases who would agree with everything you say. You certainly aren't the only person in the world who is unable to think clearly.


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Mitzah
Mitzah


Promising
Supreme Hero
of the Horadrim
posted November 20, 2008 05:13 PM
Edited by Mitzah at 17:18, 20 Nov 2008.

Aw man..there's more of you guys . Now listen up..I posted my point of view and tried to bring arguments. It's hard when you classify that as "garbage" without taking the slightest look. I do admit that I am offtopic and that I got carried away. Nutcase ? Well, I don't remember tagging someone or offending someone , but then again..you guys actually believe that a (supposed) hijacker's passport survived (in perfect condition, without a scratch) the WTC collapse.

I am however sorry to have spent time on this topic. You guys just keep your eyes closed shut Thanks for the compliments btw.
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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted November 20, 2008 05:17 PM

@binabik: did you even bother to look at the videos posted (and the thread I linked, at the last page there's a video, maybe it is blocked in the USA because mvass said he can't see it, I can).
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Vlaad
Vlaad


Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
posted November 20, 2008 05:49 PM

Quote:
@binabik: did you even bother to look at the videos posted (and the thread I linked, at the last page there's a video, maybe it is blocked in the USA because mvass said he can't see it, I can).
LOL just LOL

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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted November 20, 2008 05:52 PM

What's so funny?
Mvass said he can't, I could easily, Moonlith as well... I just draw a simple conclusion, I'm not saying it's true, it's why I put the "maybe" there
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Vlaad
Vlaad


Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
posted November 20, 2008 05:56 PM
Edited by Vlaad at 21:15, 20 Nov 2008.

Quote:
What's so funny?
Mvass said he can't, I could easily, Moonlith as well... I just draw a simple conclusion, I'm not saying it's true, it's why I put the "maybe" there
mvass cannot see a video
mvass lives in the US
therefore the video may be blocked in the US

The same thinking behind the 9/11 conspiracy theories... God forbid you spend five minutes googling for the info that debunks all that stuff.

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nocaplato
nocaplato


Adventuring Hero
Lover of Ancient Philosophy
posted November 20, 2008 09:18 PM

I certainly hope, Elodin, that you aren't referring to me as an America basher.  We may disagree on many points, but I am not a 'liberal America hater' to quote your eloquence.  In fact, I've devoted a slew of posts on this very forum arguing against those who bash America for no good reason.  Shorly after our own last encounter over elements of religion these things came up and I defended our nation from unworthy claims against my country.

That doesn't mean I have to agree with the decisions made over the last eight years.  I'd rather think my freedom to disagree is something you should respect as a critical part of our constitution.  I was even rather hoping you would pitch in those many pages ago and help argue along side me against the false American attacks that so irritated me.  There are some things, I would hope, that both the left and right can come together in unity....

However, I'd rather see an America which stands for the courage to do the right thing, even when it is the hard thing.  I'd like America to live up to its moral subtext as the 'City on the Hill' by treating justice as equal for all people, be they enemy or friend. I'd like America to regain its role as trusted friend and world leader, rather than that of feared superpower.  The place which was deemed fit as the seat of the United Nations.  We've squandered much good will through our unilateral drive just when I think the global community should be brought more into the fold.  

I am a staunch supporter of America, and not just the 'bleeding heart' left straw man created by the neo-con right.  I also would like to see America stay strong, but not the strength of the playground bully.  I want our strength to be that of protective advocate for justice and freedom.  I want that strength to be expended not in war, but in the furtherance of peace.  If that makes me an America basher in your book, I want no part of your America...

The America, incidentally, that is so often attacked and lambasted on these boards is yours, not mine.

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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted November 20, 2008 09:31 PM

TheDeath:
Actually, that video worked the second time I tried it. No idea why it wouldn't work the first time. But I'm yet to watch that video.
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nocaplato
nocaplato


Adventuring Hero
Lover of Ancient Philosophy
posted November 20, 2008 10:03 PM

Mitzah:  don't be discouraged.  Things get a little hot around here, but by all means, post your heat addled, wide eyed conspiracy theories so we can hack at them .  Come on guys, isn't that the most fun ever?

Besides, what are a few personal attacks but just good politics?

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Azagal
Azagal


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
posted November 21, 2008 06:10 AM

What a peculiar thread~~ You guys are quite interesting.

But anyways I've read a bit and I just wanted to say something about the juicy bits (sorry if I'm reviving "old" things here:S):

@Elodin
Quote:
I already presented link showing Saddam claimed to still have WMDs. US believed him. It would be nice if world was perfect and intelligence information was absolutely perfect in every situation but we live in real world, not dream world.

...? Do you think it is adviseable to base an invasion of a country on a statement like that (or atleast takeing it into consideration)? If you're going to attack a country (I think the magnitude of this issue isn't entirely realized by some yet) which will 10 000s of people you should do a little better than takeing somebody like Sadam Hussein serious and getting false evidence? Dude... if you're going to place the lives of so many people on the line you need to do a lot better than that.

Quote:
But if you would rather have many innocent dead American citizens on America streets than torture of a few terrorist that is your opinion.

Tortureing "terrorists" has provided evidence that has saved so many lives? Never heared of it. And if it would have trust me the american media would have been going on about that for weeks...

See what conflicts in me with my most basic feelings as a human is that you seem (seem right not saying you do) to value the lives of an American much higher than that of an Iraque. Even if the Americans invaded Iraq to get rid of Sadam (riiiiight....) you're always negleting all those innocent civilians.
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Mitzah
Mitzah


Promising
Supreme Hero
of the Horadrim
posted November 21, 2008 07:49 AM

Let me just give you a quote from Chris Rock : "We gotta go to Iraq cuz they're the most dangerous country on Earth! If they're so dangerous..how come it only took two weeks to take over the whole f&*^^%g country !? Man..you couldn't take over Baltimore in two weeks..".

Cheers!
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Moonlith
Moonlith


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
posted November 21, 2008 09:13 PM

Quote:
Things get a little hot around here, but by all means, post your heat addled, wide eyed conspiracy theories so we can hack at them .  Come on guys, isn't that the most fun ever?


Quote:
Lover of Ancient Philosophy

I find those two statements severely conflicting.

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nocaplato
nocaplato


Adventuring Hero
Lover of Ancient Philosophy
posted November 22, 2008 12:01 AM

Eh, it's called Irony.  Besides, most ancient philosphy wild eyed theories and philosphers are great at hacking at each other's ideas.  That's what they did and/or do  

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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted November 22, 2008 12:54 AM

Quote:
I also would like to see America stay strong, but not the strength of the playground bully.  I want our strength to be that of protective advocate for justice and freedom.  I want that strength to be expended not in war, but in the furtherance of peace.  If that makes me an America basher in your book, I want no part of your America...

The America, incidentally, that is so often attacked and lambasted on these boards is yours, not mine.


Nicely worded rhetoric but America removing Saddam was not being bully. Being bully would be America invading Canada for no reason for example. America had multiple reason to remove Saddam which has already been listed by me.

It would be quite nice if war was never necessity but in real world it is. And America it not at war with Iraq. America is at war with terrorist. There is Iraqis fighting side by side with America.


Quote:
However, I'd rather see an America which stands for the courage to do the right thing, even when it is the hard thing.


America did right thing in removing Sadaam. That took courage rather than sit back and say to Saddam 10 trillion time, "Now, now, you please be good boy." That policy did not work.

Quote:
I'd like America to live up to its moral subtext as the 'City on the Hill' by treating justice as equal for all people, be they enemy or friend.


You are following silly idea if you think in time of war you can give trial to all POWs. That alone would break America finances. How many Dream Team lawyers must be provided to enemy combatants? That is just foolishness. What soldier can take time to read Miranda rights to enemy on battlefield?

America brough freedom to Iraqi citizens. Can you say they would have freedom with Saddam in power? No, not ata all. America is responsible for democracy spreading around globe and she did not do it by singing "kumbaya." 2/2 Iraqi provinces now are in solely Iraqi control.

Dictators are not reasonable people. If they were they would not be dictator repressing right of people and keeping them in poverty.

Quote:
The place which was deemed fit as the seat of the United Nations.


UN is nothing but debate society where communist can block actions. Usually if anything get done America must do it.

Quote:
The America, incidentally, that is so often attacked and lambasted on these boards is yours, not mine.


Evidently your America is "wimp" that walks softly and runs to hide when attacked. Thankfully America did not have wimp for president and did not feel need for aproval to take action.

I am glad America have retained its soverign nation status.


Quote:
See what conflicts in me with my most basic feelings as a human is that you seem (seem right not saying you do) to value the lives of an American much higher than that of an Iraque. Even if the Americans invaded Iraq to get rid of Sadam (riiiiight....) you're always negleting all those innocent civilians.


No, I value innocent American life above life of terrorist scum. Anyone is not understanding of world if they think in war there will be no innocent civilian killed.

It is stupid to think America should hunker down in America and just hope no more terrorist attack occur. Only because America took action has American cities not been attacked again.

Iraqi citizens now are getting taste of freedom. If they are willing to fight to keep gift of democracy America is giving then they can live as free people.

Freedom isn't free. There is always somebody who want power and to take over your country. Freedom is only kept if it is fought for.

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Celfious
Celfious


Responsible
Legendary Hero
NPC
posted November 22, 2008 12:57 AM
Edited by Celfious at 03:46, 22 Nov 2008.

Quote:
My god this thread has grown since I last saw it! I didn't see that coming! I didn't think anyone but myself, wolfman, peacemaker, and the_gootch cared about this stuff???
Getting closer to the time in 2008 we started paying more attention to it. Inevitably!
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