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| Thread: Star Wars And You |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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terje_the_ma...
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Disciple of Herodotus
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posted June 02, 2005 04:54 PM |
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I'd agree that during the "senate chamber" scene and through his interactions with anakin during episodes 1 and 2, the manipulations were clear... Im just of the opinion that his "need to help" anakin was not due to his "caring" for his apprentice but mostly his need to have a powerfull but easily influenced young sith at his side. I don't think that he played the "compassion" card to "play a role" like you mentioned. If anything, the Master of the Sith would have taken the oppertunity to drive the nail by belittling the young sith and making it look like he no longer needed him... He already pledge his allegiances to Sidious so more trickery was not needed.
Make him beg for his life and tighten your grip.
But didn't Sidious (or someone else) on several occasions say that Anakin was more powerful than him?
If so - if the only advantage Sidious has over Anakin is experience and knowledge - then I can clearly understand why he didn't try to "make Anakin beg for his life". Anakin was, after all, spoken of as the most potentially powerful Jedi/Force user in quite some time, so I don't think it'd do Sidious much good to alienate himself from the boy, nor to attempt to crush his will, since such actions would most likely only make Anakin strike back.
And like I said, I don't think that Sidious would have wanted that... 
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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Jebus
Promising
Supreme Hero
TheJester akaJeebs akaJebfoo
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posted June 02, 2005 05:04 PM |
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But didn't Sidious (or someone else) on several occasions say that Anakin was more powerful than him?
not that I recall... the only one that stated that was Anakin himself (but im seeing it again to refresh my memory) Anakin's lust for power made him blind and cocky in regards to his own power.
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Anakin was, after all, spoken of as the most potentially powerful Jedi/Force user in quite some time, so I don't think it'd do Sidious much good to alienate himself from the boy, nor to attempt to crush his will, since such actions would most likely only make Anakin strike back.
And like I said, I don't think that Sidious would have wanted that...
Well I guess after he manipulated him to cross over and aid him, there was no real revelation by the emperor to anakin making him realise that, not only was anakin now in league with Sidious, but that he was also the emperor's property.
I don't think alienation was warranted either, but if Sidious does proclaim himself anakin's master (and reinforce that statement) why would anakin stay with sidious after padme died??? Wouldn't her death and his anger warrant "anakin stikes back" (episode 3.5)?
So what keeps him binded by the emperor to the dark side?
nutin really.
J
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"You went over my helmet??"
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terje_the_ma...
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
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posted June 02, 2005 05:23 PM |
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not that I recall... the only one that stated that was Anakin himself (but im seeing it again to refresh my memory) Anakin's lust for power made him blind and cocky in regards to his own power.
Inaccurate quote from Eps. I: "The boy has a higher level of Midi Chlorians than even master Yoda!" 
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Well I guess after he manipulated him to cross over and aid him, there was no real revelation by the emperor to anakin making him realise that, not only was anakin now in league with Sidious, but that he was also the emperor's property.
I don't think alienation was warranted either, but if Sidious does proclaim himself anakin's master (and reinforce that statement) why would anakin stay with sidious after padme died??? Wouldn't her death and his anger warrant "anakin stikes back" (episode 3.5)?
So what keeps him binded by the emperor to the dark side?
nutin really.
Well, there's hardly any turning back, is it? Sure, he could maybe have overthrown Sidious, if he'd tried really hard, but 1) Sidious had the clone army under his control, and 2) Anakin hadn't really completed his training, had he? So at least in theory, he had need of someone to finish his training.
Also, as sick as it sounds, it could be that Anakin actually felt some gratitude towards Sidious after the latter saved him from death on that volcanic planet...
You raise som interesting points, though.
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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Jebus
Promising
Supreme Hero
TheJester akaJeebs akaJebfoo
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posted June 02, 2005 05:38 PM |
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Edited By: Jebus on 2 Jun 2005
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Inaccurate quote from Eps. I: "The boy has a higher level of Midi Chlorians than even master Yoda!"
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Inaccurate on my part or yours???
having a higher count does not necessarily make you stronger... potentially stronger ? maybe. But let's throw Anakin and Yoda in the ring and see who bites it!!
Yes I know he was still young, but kill him off before he reaches his max potential and it's like he wasn't strong at all!
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Well, there's hardly any turning back, is it? Sure, he could maybe have overthrown Sidious, if he'd tried really hard, but 1) Sidious had the clone army under his control, and 2) Anakin hadn't really completed his training, had he? So at least in theory, he had need of someone to finish his training.
There was the potential of becoming a rogue Jedi/Sith.
He could have tried to turn another jedi and rise against Sidious. I guess I would have been very bitter and resentfull if, having been promissed to be taught a life controlling skill, and then my wife died, I wouldn't'a stuck around! There will always be another oppertunity to rise.
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Also, as sick as it sounds, it could be that Anakin actually felt some gratitude towards Sidious after the latter saved him from death on that volcanic planet...
You raise som interesting points, though.
I think trying to portray that gratitude would have lowered the status of the sith as a rutheless order.
(wasn't dumb...)
J
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"You went over my helmet??"
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terje_the_ma...
Responsible
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Disciple of Herodotus
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posted June 02, 2005 06:11 PM |
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Inaccurate on my part or yours???
Mine, obviously, since I was referring to the "midi chlorians" part.
As for the rest of the post, I think we've somehow reached the point where we've started to speculate in the motives and feelings of fictional characters. I'm not sure if that's a sign of good health, but never mind that. 
Let's continue, shall we?
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having a higher count does not necessarily make you stronger... potentially stronger ? maybe. But let's throw Anakin and Yoda in the ring and see who bites it!!
Yes I know he was still young, but kill him off before he reaches his max potential and it's like he wasn't strong at all!
Whoever told you that high post counts doesn't mean more strength? Obey me, pitiful thing!
Sure, Yoda would most likely beat Anakin, but Yoda is like 600 years old, while Anakin's perhaps 22. So obviously, Yoda has a lot more experience than Anakin. Although, I believe that Anakin would have given Yoda a real fight. It's not as if Yoda'd just go out there, and five seconds later come back out and have Anakin's head on a pike.
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There was the potential of becoming a rogue Jedi/Sith.
He could have tried to turn another jedi and rise against Sidious. I guess I would have been very bitter and resentfull if, having been promissed to be taught a life controlling skill, and then my wife died, I wouldn't'a stuck around! There will always be another oppertunity to rise.
Always?
Not always. I think it fitted Anakin and his ambitions very well to be second in command of an almost all-powerful Empire. At least, it most likely fitted himn better than to roam the galaxy, always on the run from his previous master.
Of course, he would perhaps be bitter, but remember that on that volcanic planet, he tried to use his power grip to choke Padmé to death. So I'd think that a feeling of being betrayed by everyone he loved would have been more prevailing than disappointment in something he hadn't been taught (yet).
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I think trying to portray that gratitude would have lowered the status of the sith as a rutheless order.
Indeed. But we don't see much of the feelings of Vader after the death of Padmé, since he's now either too burned to care about anything, or inside that suit of his. And if I remember correctly, the only emotion he shows, is grief and anger that Padmé is dead....
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
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posted June 02, 2005 06:37 PM |
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haha if darth vader has the power to overthrow the emperor? off course he does, he does it literary in episode 6
he also shows feelings going at, so im right and you wrong
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Jebus
Promising
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TheJester akaJeebs akaJebfoo
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posted June 02, 2005 06:49 PM |
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Edited By: Jebus on 2 Jun 2005
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As for the rest of the post, I think we've somehow reached the point where we've started to speculate in the motives and feelings of fictional characters. I'm not sure if that's a sign of good health, but never mind that.
LMAO!!!
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Let's continue, shall we?
but of course!
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Whoever told you that high post counts doesn't mean more strength? Obey me, pitiful thing!
Sure, Yoda would most likely beat Anakin, but Yoda is like 600 years old, while Anakin's perhaps 22. So obviously, Yoda has a lot more experience than Anakin. Although, I believe that Anakin would have given Yoda a real fight. It's not as if Yoda'd just go out there, and five seconds later come back out and have Anakin's head on a pike.
We'll never know will we??
don't confuse experience with RAW power....
yes yoda is older and wiser, but measure his control and skill with the force. Yoda would drop a few boulders or a piece of wall on anakin and SPLAT!! or here's some lightning power for ya!! do you think that a force struggle between the two would be equal?? doubtfull.
Yes the light saber fight would be sweet, but I think that Yoda would smoke him... but getting back to my argument, killing the young and less experienced is killing him all the same. Strengh is not "potential" strengh... he may "potentially" be the strongest Jedi who ever lived (which I think Palpatine was the one to say), is not to say that he is IN FACT the strongest Jedi. Palpatine was more likely than not trying to win him over through praise and over emphasising his skills.
and it worked didn't it??
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Always?
Not always. I think it fitted Anakin and his ambitions very well to be second in command of an almost all-powerful Empire. At least, it most likely fitted himn better than to roam the galaxy, always on the run from his previous master.
Indeed. But we don't see much of the feelings of Vader after the death of Padmé, since he's now either too burned to care about anything, or inside that suit of his. And if I remember correctly, the only emotion he shows, is grief and anger that Padmé is dead....
Anakin had already tried to convince Padme to join him to overthrow the emperor, so why would he so would, all of a suden, second in command seem acceptable??
And if Anakin felt angry due to Padme's "betrayal"
why would he screem in grief in learning that he killed her... (in the chamber at the end)
His force choke on padme was due to rage and jealousy, not hate... he still loved her. And when he found out that she died and the emperor was not true to his word,
he should have confronted him there and then.
(where's that damn light saber.... why son of a ***!)
edit: Is that it??? did I win??? you quittin'??
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"You went over my helmet??"
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Leo_Lion
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posted June 02, 2005 08:02 PM |
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Terje brings up a really valid point about why Vader stays with Sidious after Padmé's death...Sure he feels bad about killing her, but I'm sure that his thoughts are dwelling so much on negative things that he eventually ends up justifying her death as OB1's fault, and not the Emperor's.
In addition, Sidious had never "actually" told Anakin that he KNEW how to revive people, but that if they worked together, they might DISCOVER how to do it. So, at no point would Vader hold Sidious responsible for Padmé's death...In his mind, it's all OB1's fault. 
Finally, I think that Vader stays with Sidious, because he's the only person that he has left in the whole galaxy. Sure, there's his stepfather & half-brother, but he was never attached to them, and based on Anakin's tendency to attach himself tightly to those that are close to him (ie. Padmé & his mother), it is natural that he would stay with Sidious...who we can see assuming the role of "father-figure" throughout the first 3 movies.
As for Anakin being the strongest Jedi ever, I remember Palpatine tells him "You are becoming the most powerful Jedi ever", & OB1 tells him "I've taught you all that I know and you've become a better Jedi than I could ever dream of being". In Episode II, however, OB1 says "If you focus on your training, your swordplay might one day rival Master Yoda's", to which Anakin replies "That's funny, I thought I already did!".
Was he ever wrong, or what?!
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*The end to no beginning...
*Take care, Leo
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Jebus
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TheJester akaJeebs akaJebfoo
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posted June 02, 2005 08:59 PM |
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Edited By: Jebus on 2 Jun 2005
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You may want to do some homework before you start jumpin in!! (this is gonna be long so I hope nobody's eyes start to bleed)
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In addition, Sidious had never "actually" told Anakin that he KNEW how to revive people, but that if they worked together, they might DISCOVER how to do it. So, at no point would Vader hold Sidious responsible for Padmé's death...In his mind, it's all OB1's fault.
Here's a quote from the movie:
PALPATINE: It's a Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life ... He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying.
ANAKIN: He could actually save people from death?
PALPATINE: The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural.
ANAKIN: What happened to him?
PALPATINE: He became so powerful . . . the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep. (smiles) Plagueis never saw it coming. It's ironic he could save others from death, but not himself.
ANAKIN: Is it possible to learn this power?
PALPATINE: Not from a Jedi.
You may have missed the insinuation here that Palpatine was this young apprentice and that he killed his master ih his sleep. So it seems that Palpatine DOES know the power to stop death.
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Finally, I think that Vader stays with Sidious, because he's the only person that he has left in the whole galaxy. Sure, there's his stepfather & half-brother, but he was never attached to them, and based on Anakin's tendency to attach himself tightly to those that are close to him (ie. Padmé & his mother), it is natural that he would stay with Sidious...who we can see assuming the role of "father-figure" throughout the first 3 movies.
I agree that Vader had nowhere else to turn but I think that the isolation that you describe would be perfect incentive for a Sith master to use Anakin's potential isolation to manipulate him into serving the emperor.
Im not sure that I'd agree however, that anakin would identify to sidious due to his portrayled "father figure". Isolation and alliegiance maybe.
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As for Anakin being the strongest Jedi ever, I remember Palpatine tells him "You are becoming the most powerful Jedi ever",
another quote:
PALPATINE: You don't need guidance, Anakin. In time you
will learn to trust your feelings. Then you will be
invincible. I have said it many times, you are the most
gifted Jedi I have ever met.
PALPATINE and ANAKIN turn away from the window and walk
through PALPATINE'S office towards the door.
ANAKIN: Thank you, your Excellency.
PALPATINE: I see you becoming the greatest of all the Jedi,
Anakin. Even more powerful than Master Yoda.
Personally I wouldn't take this as fact as I would like Palpatine's attempt to manipulate Anakin.
Let's make him think he's the best, better than everyone and then watch him resent those to whom he feels superior to. If he starts believing he's the best, maybe he will get frustrated with those who rank below him.
& OB1 tells him "I've taught you all that I know and you've become a better Jedi than I could ever dream of being". In Episode II, however, OB1 says "If you focus on your training, your swordplay might one day rival Master Yoda's", to which Anakin replies "That's funny, I thought I already did!".
Again, you're quoting someone who has the absolute belief that Anakin is the "chosen one"... that he would bring balance to the force... His opinion, though honest, is fairly biaised by his beliefs. And look what happened... dont forget that OB1 sided with the jedi council when Qui Gon believed that anakin was "the one". Only after his death did OB1 take on the responsibility of trainning him (due to his former master's request).
And as far as Anakin's reply, you can tell by his facial expression that he was making a cocky statement. (what if he said he could destroy the sith all by himself? would we believe him?)
j
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Leo_Lion
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posted June 03, 2005 01:16 AM |
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While I agree that there is a hint that Sidious might know the power of keeping people alive, during the scene at the "opera house", I was referring to when Palpatine reveals himself to Anakin as the Sith Lord. In that scene, he tells Anakin that if they work together, they might DISCOVER the secret of keeping people alive.
In my opinion, there is no such power that actually exists in the Star Wars universe. It was just concocted by Sidious in an attempt to play on Anakin's severe attachment issues. And the ruse obviously worked because he bought it hook, line, & sinker.
On the isolation issue, I agree that it would have been more appropriate to see Sidious rub it in Vader's face that he is all alone in the Galaxy. We see him do this correctly in Episode 6, when he tricks Luke into believing that his friends & sister are being killed in the battle around the new Death Star.
As for Anakin being the best jedi ever, I was just quoting a "mish-mash" of things that I vaguely remembered from the first 3 movies. I must admit though, that I had forgotten about OB1's disposition to believing that Anakin was "the Chosen One".
Either way, well done on the accurate quotes and good points!
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*The end to no beginning...
*Take care, Leo
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jebus
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posted June 03, 2005 01:55 AM |
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Personally there's so much insinuation in theses movies that multiple interpretations is always a possiblity...
I just like to think that everything the Sith does is bassed on getting what they want in the end....power. And them beeing deceitfull and manipulative is the way I like to see that!
I kind of wish I had remembered that ploy by the emperor with Luc... It would have served me well against Terje too!!
But either way, there were some really good arguments in this thread and kudos to Terje for his valiant effort....
but failed non the less.
Sister! So...you have a twin sister. Your feelings have now betrayed her, too. Terje was wise to hide her from me. Now Terje's failure is complete. If you will not turn to the dark side, then perhaps she will.
J
Young fool...only now, at the end, do you
understand.
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"You went over my helmet??"
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Svarog
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posted June 03, 2005 04:24 PM |
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Isnt it absurd on the other hand that a jedi is taught to let go of those he loves, and a sith is learned to help and save them?
don't confuse the emperor's actions for love, sympathy or compassion... His motives were purely selfish...
I was not talking about the emperor, I was talking about anakin.
The problem starts with the fact that it was mostly love that brought him to the Dark Side, not greed for power. And that’s why all those inconsistencies in the end, when they try to fuse both love and selfishness as anakins motives. I think Anakins turn to the Dark Side is totally incomplete, OR the Dark Side isnt as dark as they want us to think of it. The way I see it, Anakin wasn’t no more power-greedy than Yoda was, for example. He simply wanted his achievements and skills to be acknowledged, no more than what every Jedi wants. He, as other Jedis, aimed to become more powerful, in order to protect the things he loves: Padme, the Republic, his people. He had a difference in political opinions, yes, he thought giving the Emperor a stronger role would be better, but up till that point nothing ideologically “dark”. Apparently, his too strong love for Padme, was his only sin, and would’ve done better if he “let her go”, as Yoda says, for some higher Jedi ideals. (As a sidenote, are Jedis allowed to have families and babies?) Even in the wake of the Republic’s downfall, he still believed what he was doing was for the good of the Republic (remember the scene on the balcony). Not a trace of personal greed, what in the first place, was supposed to be the only reason for him joining forces with Sidius. He started seeing the Council of Jedis as a conservative organization, which, one must admit, he had a point, as they were too uptight to acknowledge his as an equal, and ultimately decided that overthrowing them would be for the good of the Republic. Only in the end, did the authors try to present personal greed to have any role in his downfall, when he states his ambitions to even overthrow the Emperor and rule alone. Could be understandable to a degree, since throughout the movie, the Dark Side is presented as some kind of evil virus, without any attempt to rationally explain why a dark-sider would act as they do. And hence, anakins “consuming” by the dark side, as they say. But in this context, I believe, Palpatine’s quote “Good is a point of view” makes the best use of itself against the Jedi dogma.
To sum up, what does this movie teach little kids? That its bad to be rebel in a system where an order of forces exists, that its bad to rely on your emotions and instead learn to control them, that its better to give up on those you love for the sake of some higher ideals, that in life good and bad are too opposite sides and if you have to be either with one of them, or against them, that personal ambition is an abomination, and all these things which I consider cheap tricks to sneak in Christian morality in a sci-fi film. May the Force be with you.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Jebus
Promising
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TheJester akaJeebs akaJebfoo
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posted June 03, 2005 05:10 PM |
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You may want to consider re-watching episodes 1-3 to maybe get a better perception of Anakin’s journey down the dark path. (and forgive me if I've missed any points that you felt important to your argument... I didn't want to cut and paste the whold thing!)
“The problem starts with the fact that it was mostly love that brought him to the Dark Side, not greed for power. And that’s why all those inconsistencies in the end, when they try to fuse both love and selfishness as Anakin’s motives.”
From a very young age you saw the fear, anger and impatience from Anakin when facing difficulties in his life. At the drop of a dime, he would lash out emotionally when facing any level of confrontation… Yoda sees in the early going that his filled with pain and fear. In episode 2, you CLEARLY see his anger and his lust for power when telling Padme that he’s being held back and that HE should be the strongest and greatest Jedi.
Also he places blame on others for his lack of power or status. He then loses control of his emotions and mows down an entire village due to his hate and anger. There are multiple references to his impatience and his lust for power in the early going and he mentions a few times about how he SHOULD be the greatest.
You’re point that love leads him to the dark side is fair but I think it’s also incomplete.
Anakin is AFRAID to lose Padme. Sure he loves her but don’t forget that he’s been struggling with the loss of his mother (something he’s never gotten over) and therefore the fear of being left again is more likely to be the driving motivation. As you mentioned, Yoda mentions death is a part of life and to not fear it and Anakin in no way accepts this as an acceptable conclusion. And in episode 3, it is no longer is love for Padme that drives him to the Sith, it’s his anger and jealousy of OB1 (and padme joining with OB1) that pushes his over the edge to pure hate.
Another interesting point you’ve made is the Jedi’s lust for power. You never actually hear or see any reference to their journey towards attaining power. They gain their power through their understanding of the living force. They grow powerful with their wisdom and experience. And no, the Jedi are not aloud to get married and have kids… this is a vow broken by Anakin. It may be a strict philosophy by the Jedi, but don’t forget that Anakin made the decision to become a Jedi. From a young age his motives were to grow strong and free the slaves on his home world. Hardly a mentality held by the Jedi. (Except the slavers part)
“…as they were too uptight to acknowledge his as an equal, and ultimately decided that overthrowing them would be for the good of the Republic”
When he decided to join Palpatine it wasn’t for the reasons above… he had already pledge allegiance to him in return for the knowledge of controlling life and death.
I think you may have missed the “personal greed” part of the whole motivation of the Sith. You seem to have an anti-conservatism and anti-social norm philosophy and
unfortunately, I think your hate of these has clouded your judgement. …a perfect prodigy for the next “chosen one”.
J
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"You went over my helmet??"
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Svarog
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posted June 04, 2005 03:47 AM |
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Yes indeed, all your points stand. But the crucial detail is that they refer to the time before and after his turning to the dark side. However, I didnt have the impression that they were what played the biggest role when he joined Sidius, but exactly what I said in my post. Because if u look at the scene when anakin makes his decision (and that is when the emperor and Samuel Jackson are in that weird "energy jam"), his logic is clearly based on his love for Padme, not his nasty temper from the previous episodes. Its a matter of opinion whether u agree or disagree, maybe even clouded judgement, I dont know.
As for my updated Jedi COC, not being allowed to marry could only fit well into my list of Christian messages in the movie, denying the sexual pleasure. Poor Yoda, so many centuries old and still without a shag.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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terje_the_ma...
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posted June 04, 2005 08:10 PM |
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Hey, who knows? Maybe little green men who live till they're 600 years are teenagers for 100 years too, and have a lot of fun then?
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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Lith-Maethor
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posted June 06, 2005 09:57 AM |
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note: after this post, i will change my nick to Sith Maethor
*cracks knuckles and puts the black hood and the green saber one before starting to type*
Star Wars you say? ...hmmm ...no, i don't think i ever heard of it ...ok, ok just kidding ...of course i have heard of Star Wars ...i doubt there is anybody that doesn't know what a jedi or a lightsaber is (among those that have not severed any ties with western culture that is) ...in the end, all the Star Wars universe means to me is ...lightsabers and Yoda ...sure, you have the jedi knights, the sith lords, the republic, the empire and the rebels but the one thing that, to this day, makes me drool over Star Wars is the flashy (and technically speaking, totally unrealistic) swords of light that can cut/burn through anything and send energy beams back to their source (or generally away from the wielder -- on that note, energy weapons in movies never follow any laws of physics) ...and one of the most memorable characters ever is of course Master Yoda ...remember him you do, hmmm?
my only ties to the SW universe so far have been the movies and some of the games (either arcade or computer) ...and here is how the story begins...
...the year is... 1989, long after the jedi returned... a 9 year old kid and his cousins (11 and 14 yo) are bored to death and decide to skip going out to have fun in order to watch a movie on tv ...the movie is a science fiction fairytale of knights, emperors and of course a princess... while the whole jedi attitude sticks for some, its the lightsabers that make the impression... a few months later, the same three kids rent the two sequels on vhs... and thats pretty much it... the star wars universe enters their lives with some effects most would not expect (like the love for swords, something later enhanced by Highlander) ...Luke, Leia, Han Solo, Yoda, Darth Vader, Chewbacca and of course the Emperor are names now familiar...
and someone hits fast forward... the year now is... 1999 and a 19 year old computer science student along with two friends (19 and 21 yo) are bored to death and decide to accept an invitation for a semi-private show of The Phantom Menace ...the film is a disappointment, with Qui Gon and maybe Darth Maul the only highlights (former because of actor, latter because of double saber ) ...it is rumored they later referred to this movie as The Phantom Plot ...some years later, Episode 2 was out... this time Saruman.. umm... sorry, Count Drac--- Count Dooku! saved the day, but overall the movie was even worse than the first... at least no money lost... rumors say many people started wandering whether the original trilogy was indeed good or if they simply were too young to know better
...finally, the year is 2005 and the revenge of the sith is out... again, no money given to lucas, as the previous films made it clear it was not worth it... here we see slightly better dialogue (i hear lucas had help) but good actors (not all of them) suffering under a lousy director... Anakin's transformation to Darth Vader is forced at best (pun not intended) and it only takes place simply because lucas could not make another movie ...granted, the movie had highlights... Darth Anakin slaying the children, Yoda fighting  ...Emperor getting slapped around with his own Force Shock two out of the three times he uses it...
...luckily, my connection to the Star Wars universe did not rely on the movies... i had Jedi Outcast and KotoR2 to keep me there... i of course suggest both games to those who like the universe, they make it sooo much easier to understand what the jedi and sith are all about...
in conclusion... Spaceballs and the video of The Saga begins, make a far better job than at least the three prequels, imnsho
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You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.
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Jebus
Promising
Supreme Hero
TheJester akaJeebs akaJebfoo
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posted June 06, 2005 02:27 PM |
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I have to say that your summary of your experiences
was bang on!
I wonder how many are, in fact, very dissapointed with the new trilogy?
On with the debate....
Anybody expecting a bigger conflict between OB1 and
Uncle Owen?? In the originals, Owen refers to OB1 as a "crazy old wizard"... And when Ben is talking to Luc about his uncle he states :"...follow ol' Ben on some damn fool crusade!"
where did this bitterness come from??
Beru looked very happy to adopt a child and so did Owen at the end... so why the resentment?
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"You went over my helmet??"
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terje_the_ma...
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
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posted June 06, 2005 07:30 PM |
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Good post, Lith!
And Jebus: Good point! I had completely forgotten about that. (Dang, it's close to four years since the last time I saw the original trilogy!)
Maybe Owen was bitter about something else? But what?
If Lucas decides to make some more films, I hpe he'll put something about this in it.
Although, it could be that Owen is bitter over what happened to Anakin, after he joined Obi Wan on "some damn fool crusade". But if so, why didn't this show in RotS? Did Lucas simply not have enough time? Or is the poor old sod getting senile?
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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Jebus
Promising
Supreme Hero
TheJester akaJeebs akaJebfoo
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posted June 06, 2005 07:48 PM |
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Quote:
Good post, Lith!
And Jebus: Good point! I had completely forgotten about that. (Dang, it's close to four years since the last time I saw the original trilogy!)
Maybe Owen was bitter about something else? But what?
If Lucas decides to make some more films, I hpe he'll put something about this in it.
Although, it could be that Owen is bitter over what happened to Anakin, after he joined Obi Wan on "some damn fool crusade". But if so, why didn't this show in RotS? Did Lucas simply not have enough time? Or is the poor old sod getting senile?
Id believe it...
In episode 2, Owen and Anakin didn't really have any interaction at all! and even then, OB1 was nowhere around when anakin went to Tatoine in the first place...
OB1's visit with luc (in 3) would have been his first meeting with Owen. They coulda had words or something...
There are talks of a TV series for the between time of 3 and 4.... that would be cool!
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"You went over my helmet??"
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terje_the_ma...
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
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posted June 06, 2005 07:55 PM |
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Didn't Obi Wan meet Owen in Episode I? 
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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