|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
posted March 14, 2009 07:06 PM |
|
|
Quote:
What did he do between his "birth" and the day he started to create the universe? Wasn't this time pretty boring?
if God exists outside time, he can't feel bored.
We really shouldn't go there, as we cannot really understand infinity or a plane without time. 
emil: why to give up on something you think is good because of others? What they did with their own religion is their problem, not yours. Unless you're an another guy who needs moral backup of majority, otherwise, you will feel alienated or dumb.
____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
|
|
del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
|
|
posted March 14, 2009 08:01 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Christmas is not called Christmas here. Its called Yule. Sure, there are some religious moments but thats just tradtion and atleast in my family we dont have anything religious.
Its just cozy and nice with old traditions.
Believe me, They're very christian holidays.
Oh trust me its not. Jesus was either born on 24th or 31st? Why do we celebrate both then? And none of them got anything to do with Christ.
As far as i understand THE Jesus was born several years before year 0, -7 or someting.
Ever heard of solstice? That is litteraly Jul, or Yule as its called in Sweden(i got no clue on the danes however, but i guess its similar to the Norwegian). People was celebrating the turning of the darkness, more light, and the beginning of longer days!
Stop living in denial.
____________
|
|
angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
|
|
posted March 14, 2009 09:28 PM |
|
|
Quote:
if God exists outside time, he can't feel bored.
Boredom is not generally related to time. My question was more pointing towards: When there was nothing except God...what did he do before he created the entire universe?
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted March 14, 2009 09:32 PM |
|
|
-My god, what means 10k gold coins for you?
"1 coin, my son..."
-My god, what means thousand years for you?
"1 minute, my son..."
-Then my god, can you borrow me 10k coins?
"Sure, my son. Wait a minute..."
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted March 14, 2009 09:37 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Boredom is not generally related to time. My question was more pointing towards: When there was nothing except God...what did he do before he created the entire universe?
Sure it is! You are bored BECAUSE you are either exposed to something in an extended period of time, or you are without anything to do for too long.
And if God exists beyond time, there is no "before" or "after" to him. Those are terms strictly related to time. As I said, we can't fully understand infinity or a world without time, I believe even genious people like Einstein would have problems with that, so there is no need to discuss it further. It's more complex than time paradoxes (i.e. in fantasy), which give most people a horrible headache.
Of course, I believe Death claimed somewhere he does understand it, but whatever
____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
|
|
DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
|
|
posted March 14, 2009 10:40 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Oh trust me its not. Jesus was either born on 24th or 31st? Why do we celebrate both then? And none of them got anything to do with Christ.
As far as i understand THE Jesus was born several years before year 0, -7 or someting.
Ever heard of solstice? That is litteraly Jul, or Yule as its called in Sweden(i got no clue on the danes however, but i guess its similar to the Norwegian). People was celebrating the turning of the darkness, more light, and the beginning of longer days!
Stop living in denial.
Yule...
Christmas...
Two different things...
Christmas is very christian and as I said before, Christmas has been paganised to fit Germanic beliefs (I.E. they changed the dates, so that missionaries made it easier for them to believe that their religions aren't so different and maybe they should consider adapting themselves to it).
And, in theory, he should be born on the 31st of 0, but practice is just a little different, but it's too late to change that now!
____________
If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
|
|
xerdux
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
|
|
posted March 14, 2009 10:49 PM |
|
|
Well, my Illustarted Science and National Geographic says it wasnt likely that he was born on the 24th.
Its called Jul in sweden, I was just translating to english
Its not christain. We celebrate because of other things.
|
|
DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
|
|
posted March 14, 2009 10:53 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
if God exists outside time, he can't feel bored.
Boredom is not generally related to time. My question was more pointing towards: When there was nothing except God...what did he do before he created the entire universe?
God was a little slow...
____________
If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted March 15, 2009 01:59 AM |
|
Edited by TheDeath at 02:00, 15 Mar 2009.
|
Quote:
What did he do between his "birth" and the day he started to create the universe? Wasn't this time pretty boring?
God created time.
And how can you have a "between" period, or before/after when those refer to time? I'm not saying I comprehend it, but at least I know that these don't make much sense without time.
@Doom: I can't imagine a world without time, but I can understand one. Just like any mathematician, for example, can understand a world with ANY number of dimensions, but usually most people can't imagine more than 3, and those who can have difficulties with the fourth (without time, just space).
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
|
xerdux
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
|
|
posted March 15, 2009 02:19 AM |
|
|
Bah, stupid and lame excuse that all christains etc says.
Heretic (lol): How do you explain how God was born etc?
Zealot (lol): BECAUSER GOD CREATED TIME SO HE LIKE CANT BE BORN!
Heretic: Why did he create Earth?
Zealot: BECAUSE GOD FELT LIKE IT AND LOVES US!!!!!!!!!!!!
Heretic: Why doesnt he stop all disease etc?
Zealot: BECAUSE WE ARE SO MEAN AGAINST HIM SO HE DOENST LIKE CARE - NO, ITS BECAUSE HE IS GOD!!!
Heretic: Then he doesnt like us.
Zealot: OMG SHUT UP DAMN SUPER ATHEISTS! I WILL SUE YOU, YOU OFFEND ME!!!
Heretic: Why is god a male?
Zealot: CAUSE HE IS A GOD, STUPID FEMINIST! WOMEN HAVE NO POWER AND SUCK!!! THATS BECAUSE MALES RULES OVER FEMALES!!!!!!!!!!
Heretic: How did he create our planet in 7 days?
Zealot: CAUSE HE IS A GOD, OBVIOSULY!
Heretic: Bla bla bla annoying out of place question.
Zealot: 'Cause he is god!
Heretic: Bla bla bla annoying out of place question.
Zealot: 'Cause he is god!
Heretic: Bla bla bla annoying out of place question.
Zealot: 'Cause he is god!
Heretic: Bla bla bla annoying out of place question.
Zealot: 'Cause he is god!
I was serious. Lol.
|
|
baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
|
|
posted March 15, 2009 02:24 AM |
|
|
Ok, we get it, there's no God in Sweden.
Moving on...
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted March 15, 2009 02:31 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Heretic (lol): How do you explain how God was born etc?
This questions is sheer stupidity, since "born" implies... you know. Maybe you would have asked "created" which would make more sense. However, that is not stated anywhere and such anything would be purely philosophical speculation.
And yes there is no "before" God, it could be something else which we have no idea about though. It's even marked and we already know from relativity that space and time are NOT separated. If space was created so must have been time, according to the religion of course. So asking anything like that is ignorant. Doesn't mean God exists, but why ask a question which ignores the religion's "sayings"? Isn't the whole purpose of the question to ask ABOUT those sayings (and probably prove something), but why IGNORE them then?
Quote:
I was serious. Lol.
Yeah it's pretty obvious how messed up your mind is about and how futile any reasonable arguments (from both sides) in this thread are utterly pointless here.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's proof of God, but get your facts or data straight about what religion is before attempting to "disprove" it based on what it says, since obviously that's what you're arguing about (i.e you already assume God exists in that scenario and wish to find out more about the religion).
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
|
angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
|
|
posted March 15, 2009 08:05 AM |
|
|
"God created time" is nothing else but a phrase out of the bible.period.
I find it very interesting we have members here who want to explain what "the world" is look a like without "time". Are you really that genious?
Why can't you hardline believers just stop trying to explain God's motivations as if it is completely normal you have a cake and a coffee every sunday with him while sitting outside of your house.
No one is able to explain what "God" did BEFORE he created the entire universe...so please stop even trying it.
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
|
|
Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
|
|
posted March 15, 2009 08:16 AM |
|
|
Still the arguement that the matter and energy for the big bang being 'always' there is as legitimate as 'god did it'. Now I am not saying that the christian, or muslim, or (insert whatever other religion here) did anything at all. My problem comes when those who do try to use the big bang to disprove a higher beings exsistance shout "Straw man argument" and then use one themselves (ie that the matter and energy 'always' exsisted). Until there is some proof of where/how this matter and energy came to be, both sides just need to agree to disagree.
____________
Message received.
|
|
Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
|
|
posted March 15, 2009 09:02 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
The existence of the universe is evidence for the existence of God. The universe could not magically appear from absolute nothing with no cause. The first cause had to be an eternal Creator.
And I thought this is quite a serious thread....but with arguments like this, it turns into a first grade quarrel....
As opposed to numerous posts in this thread calling religions a fairy tale and believing in a sky pixie. There are a tremendous amount of insults against religious people in this very thread.
Strike the word magic if you like though it appears atheists can throw around such accusations with impunity. There should be no dual standards.
Quote:
Oh and btw...Who created God then?
What did he do between his "birth" and the day he started to create the universe? Wasn't this time pretty boring?
God is not matter or energy. God is not bound by the laws of thermodynamics. God is eternal.
Just as a painter is not bound within his work of art so God is not bound by the universe. God fills and transcends the universe.
We are not told what God was doing. God is not "needy." He does not feel bored.
Quote:
Oh trust me its not. Jesus was either born on 24th or 31st? Why do we celebrate both then? And none of them got anything to do with Christ.
As far as i understand THE Jesus was born several years before year 0, -7 or someting.
The actual day on which Christ was born is not at issue. Christmas is a day selected to celebrate the birth of Christ. We cannot say with certainty on which day he was actually born.
Quote:
Bah, stupid and lame excuse that all christains etc says.
Bah, stupid and lame excuse that all atheists ect sys......
Quote:
"God created time" is nothing else but a phrase out of the bible.period.
No. Science will say space and time came into being together. Scientists claim it came into being at the Big Bang.
Now, if you believe in the Big Bang, what cause it? There was absolute nothing before the Big Bang. We know for a fact that matter is not eternal.
And that phrase is not found in the Bible actually.
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted March 15, 2009 10:24 AM |
|
|
angelito, I mentioned it cause, well, I'm writing a fantasy book and I tried hard to show higher intelligence of some superior beings there in a different way that the old lame "super wise" Tolkien style So, I introduced beings that operate in nine dimensional worlds or live outside time. I just thought we may as well apply my thoughts and ideas to God Cause, well, why not?
____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
|
|
angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
|
|
posted March 15, 2009 11:35 AM |
|
|
Quote:
As opposed to numerous posts in this thread calling religions a fairy tale and believing in a sky pixie. There are a tremendous amount of insults against religious people in this very thread.
How can you insult fantasies?
Quote:
God is not matter or energy. God is not bound by the laws of thermodynamics. God is eternal.
Simple question: HOW do you KNOW?
Quote:
Just as a painter is not bound within his work of art so God is not bound by the universe. God fills and transcends the universe.
HOW do you KNOW?
Quote:
We are not told what God was doing. God is not "needy." He does not feel bored.
HOW do you KNOW?
Quote:
Bah, stupid and lame excuse that all atheists ect sys......
Name ONE excuse..in opposit to about thousands from kind of yours 
Quote:
Now, if you believe in the Big Bang, what cause it? There was absolute nothing before the Big Bang. We know for a fact that matter is not eternal.
Here comes the difference about people who "dream" of a God, and people who just don't care coz they will never know: I do not care what was BEFORE the BigBang, coz it is of NO interest for me. To bring back YOUR example with the painter: WHO cares about how the surface of a picture looked like before the painting was done? It is the picture which counts...
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted March 15, 2009 11:42 AM |
|
|
angelito,
you shouldn't forget how touchy people are. Belittling their religion may be an insult, whether you think of it as stupid fairy tale or not. I don't care personally, but others may and may feel bad about it.
A good comparison would be the subject of homosexuality. To some, it's their lifestyle, their life. To others, it's neutral. But there are also people who think that it's just "doing males in the butts" and thus not worth caring for. While for them it's perfectly ok to joke about gay guys and show little to none care about those matters, it can feel really bad for those gay fellows there who think of it as of something important.
So don't be surprised if Elodin feels bad about what you and xerox said now
____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
|
|
baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
|
|
posted March 15, 2009 11:42 AM |
|
Edited by baklava at 12:02, 15 Mar 2009.
|
Quote:
HOW do you KNOW?
He doesn't.
But neither do you.
That's sort of the point of faith.
Quote:
How can you insult fantasies?
Let's follow your logic.
<parental advisory: explicit logic; not recommended for younger viewers>
If one believes something is a fantasy, he may insult it.
René Descartes, in one of his radically skeptic phases, believed that nothing can be known for sure about the existence of anything.
Hence, he had no reason to believe that, say, your wife exists.
I sort of like Descartes and I hope I may, with his permission, borrow his views for the sake of a discussion.
Henceforth, I may, according to your chain of thought, call your wife a ball-sucking snow and that couldn't be considered an insult because I firmly believe that she, and the rest of the world, is a fantasy.
See where that gets us?
Please note that I did not, in fact, call your wife a ball-sucking snow; I merely mentioned it as an... illustrated example. But I could, if I were to follow your logic.
|
|
Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
|
|
posted March 15, 2009 11:59 AM |
|
|
For those who have already made up their mind, little can come of a discussion. God himself could walk into a room in all his/her glory, and it would not matter. Or absolute proof no such entity exsist could come forth, and again..little would change. Such have blinded themselves to any possibilty that they are wrong, on both sides.
At one time I loved debating for debating's sake. Honestly now it just seems pointless. Like the anti-american rhetoric that seems prevailent now. Why waste my effort on closed minded bigots?
Right now I don't know the answer, and am trying to keep an open mind about if a higher power exsists. Though I believe it does, I know I am not all knowing. Neither side has swayed me yet. Since it has gone on for so long, I doubt they will. Too busy being so sure they are right and holding fingers to their ears . That is not saying that some people here have not had great posts, and some have even put down some very good arguments.
Now, there are things that cant be explained, I've experienced them. Some people, however, must first experience them for themselves or it didn't happen (according to them). Which is fine. In their place I would feel the exact same. All I am asking for is a little sanity, and somebody who has respect for others views to explain to me WHY they think the way they think. Guess that is too much to ask?
____________
Message received.
|
| |
|
|
This Popular Thread is pages long: 
