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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted May 08, 2007 08:36 PM |
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both groups have done good and bad for the world.
science gave us medicene, tools and computers, but also gave use weapons, bombs and spam.
religion gave us hope, but also gave us hatred.
if it was around, magic would give us understanding, but also destruction.
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
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posted May 09, 2007 01:28 PM |
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@Swamplord
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Say whatever you want, but as it was stated earlier, religious organizations do lots of work for helping the poor and needy. I don't see scientists donating some of their money to set up things like this.
hahahahah.
you think that every person who helps someone else believes in god?
just because they might not be scientists per se doesnt mean they arent athiests lmao
@The death
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Including making money out of it 
the church never made money out of anything
oh except selling gullible peoples souls
@jlewlotr
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I think there is another problem that is not being addressed. It seems like some people (atheists and religious alike) are making blanket statements about the other "group". There are so many different value systems and morals and beliefs among fellow atheists and among fellow religious people that it makes no sense to make claims about one person's character or behavior based on the history of others in their religion, or non-religion. To say that thousands of people have been killed in the name of God says nothing about the religious people posting here (HOPEFULLY!).
That's because were not into personal attacks here. (usually)
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Also you can't assume that because an atheist doesn't follow God, he/she also does not behave according to many of the (univerally applicable) teachings in the bible out of the goodness of their own heart.
Thankyou.  
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Alas, I think the only way this thread will not be a punching ground would be for the people here to actually get to know each other's true personal values and morals etc, beyond just the general teachings of the doctrine they follow. But hey, if we have a lot of extreme people, maybe it will still be a punching groud.
What goes on in fight club, stays in fight club
@Zombielord
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Yes, scientists don't care about people, they only care about money and popularity.
Not to mention that some scientists sacrifice people in the name of science (seen Spiders 2? and there are very many movies like that). I know you'll say those are just movies, but I don't think all of them came up with this idea if it is not happening in RL
LOL
@Swamplord
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Scientists also have given us wonderful ways to kill each other!
Nukes, guns, bombs, poison gas! YAY! (It works both ways, you know)
yeah, the scientists ****ed up EVERYTHING, didn't they? damn them
oh and its not the gun that kills people 
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John says to live above hell.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted May 09, 2007 02:43 PM |
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the church never made money out of anything
oh except selling gullible peoples souls
You really seem to think church = God? Also not all churches are corrupted.
The people in the church are still people, not God. Therefore some are vulnerable to greed and power and money. Any idiot can "become" a priest (I'm talking about government stuff for example, especially in non-democratic countries), and tell people crap. Then 'weak' minds might follow and say "In the name of God!!!". It is a form of brainwashing.
However that is where you need to be wise to see the real difference between a real priest (hardly found nowadays) and the teachings of God perhaps.
By the way, blaming God for every mistake is a simple excuse. You can blame Bill Gates because you had a car accident as well, but that doesn't make it true.
What is reality? Simply, the illusion your brain gives upon receiving information from your five senses.
You argued many times that what we can't perceive is irrelevant for us. That is not true. Those who believe in God do not 'see' him, but your senses are not the only things that you need to be aware of. Of course perhaps you think it's irrelevant, but not all people seek only fun and pleasure. (just as most guys find people dorks if they have 'fun' reading books instead of watching TV, etc, and btw books here does not mean stories, but boring stuff by the average person).
Like I said countless times, you may not behave differently if you knew we were in an Virtual simulation, but I would. What you perceive with your senses is also a form of imagination. You cannot see magnetic fields -- if you had a new sense perhaps you could. Maybe there are a whole lot other fields that have no effect on our five senses, but they exist. Or parallel universes. Or God.
What I find annoying is how some people find "Jesus"'s story to be crap. If you had a great achievement (for example, you would be chosen for an Alien experiment, talking to them, then teleported back from their Universe) and a great tale, surely let's suppose you would write it down. But people after some 1000 years from now will think it's crap as well. However in this case it would've happen.
I respected Jesus and his teaching (which are God's teachings), and I know I am not the one to comprehend everything. I also like to think of philosophy, because it is interesting. To make it short as the list might be very long, I like to expand my thoughts way beyond the simple 'fun' or five senses. You cannot go back in time to see what it really happened at a particular moment. Yet people like Jesus tried to explain it to us -- we now are too blind and selfish, we want to discover it ourselves, we do not base our trust on him (actually 'we' here means the average person, I for example respect Him).
It doesn't matter, atheists will always want to experience something for themselves before they actually really believe in it. That means even if a fellow atheists is sent through a Black Hole and gets back in time, he won't be able to 'teach' or explain that to his fellow atheists -- they will never in the world believe him, because they want to 'discover' or experience that themselves (i.e proofs) with their five senses. If someone had more senses than you, and would explain something perceived with those senses, you would call it crap -- you don't trust someone else unless you have the same 'capacity' as him so you can experience or 'see' that yourself.
Of course you would argue that the person who was sent back in time shouldn't bother explaining that to someone else -- but not all people are like that. In fact that is why Jesus was 'sent' here. Note furthermore that if you think that the aformentioned person shouldn't bother with the others, then why should we 'religious' people bother to explain God to atheists? of course most of us actually try to explain our perspectives, in the Bible it says we should help our brothers and sisters. Before you get to call this crap, remember the analogy with the person sent back in time -- and yeah even if you don't believe this, some people want to help others the same as they would help themselves, and has nothing to do with Heaven or Hell. Like I said in a post (forgot the page ), if you are evil and deserve to go to Hell, you aren't afraid of yourself, then neither should you be afraid of Hell. People don't do Goodness because they want to get to Heaven -- that is a child's point of view. We do goodness because that how our minds/spirit is. It defines us.
I for example even go further so as to respect any creatures around, including Animals, nature and possibly Aliens as well And perhaps even static objects -- even if there were no fish, or endangered species because of polluting the water, I still would have not polluted it
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Colonel_here
Adventuring Hero
Descendant of Ghengis Khan
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posted May 09, 2007 10:36 PM |
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Actually no where it is said that church can not become corrupted, and even the heads of the church could fall into sin.
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"The job of saving the lives of those who are sinking is the task of those who are sinking" - Ostap Bender
"Only a fool fights a battle he knows he can not win" - Ghengiz Khan
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violent_flower
Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
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posted May 09, 2007 10:45 PM |
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OMG, church is where the sinners go to get "well". It is the place that they feel they won't be judge and even encourage to, in some churches, repent and are told that their slate is now clean to do as they please.
Churches are very well known for falling into sin and can cover it up through the great scripture. Predators prey on church family because they are easily trusted and provided a sea of opportunity for their obsessions, addictions, and severely demented desires.
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Learn how to duck and weave because I will throw truth at you all day!
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SwampLord
Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
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posted May 09, 2007 11:03 PM |
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Scientists can also do the same thing. Just because some scientists and businessmen are corrupt, doesn't mean the whole institution is. Every group has bad members.
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TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
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posted May 10, 2007 04:12 AM |
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You really seem to think church = God? Also not all churches are corrupted.
Church = church.
And no, my local church on the corner isn't corrupted (at least I don't think so)
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The people in the church are still people, not God. Therefore some are vulnerable to greed and power and money. Any idiot can "become" a priest (I'm talking about government stuff for example, especially in non-democratic countries), and tell people crap. Then 'weak' minds might follow and say "In the name of God!!!". It is a form of brainwashing.
I know.
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However that is where you need to be wise to see the real difference between a real priest (hardly found nowadays) and the teachings of God perhaps.
What do we know of the teachings of god?
What some people wrote down? How can you know whether they are any different to priests?
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By the way, blaming God for every mistake is a simple excuse. You can blame Bill Gates because you had a car accident as well, but that doesn't make it true.
Didn't blame god.
I reiterated that the killings have been done 'in the name of god'.
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What is reality? Simply, the illusion your brain gives upon receiving information from your five senses.
lol. That is the most random turnaround back to the question of reality i have ever seen
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Like I said countless times, you may not behave differently if you knew we were in an Virtual simulation, but I would.
What would you do differently?
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What you perceive with your senses is also a form of imagination. You cannot see magnetic fields -- if you had a new sense perhaps you could. Maybe there are a whole lot other fields that have no effect on our five senses, but they exist. Or parallel universes. Or God.
We can see the effects of magnetic fields..
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What I find annoying is how some people find "Jesus"'s story to be crap. If you had a great achievement (for example, you would be chosen for an Alien experiment, talking to them, then teleported back from their Universe) and a great tale, surely let's suppose you would write it down. But people after some 1000 years from now will think it's crap as well. However in this case it would've happen.
So wise people should judge it as crap.
Or should they just take all of my words as true? Plus aliens are theoretically very likely, based on our knowledge of the universe. Based on that same knowledge, god is nearly impossible. Well, impossible if you disclude the changes to the story that modern theists make.
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I respected Jesus and his teaching (which are God's teachings), and I know I am not the one to comprehend everything.
How do you know Jesus wasn't just another man?
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Yet people like Jesus tried to explain it to us -- we now are too blind and selfish, we want to discover it ourselves, we do not base our trust on him (actually 'we' here means the average person, I for example respect Him).
You're right, we should believe everything we're told, end of story
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It doesn't matter, atheists will always want to experience something for themselves before they actually really believe in it.
You make it sound like a bad thing.
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That means even if a fellow atheists is sent through a Black Hole and gets back in time, he won't be able to 'teach' or explain that to his fellow atheists -- they will never in the world believe him, because they want to 'discover' or experience that themselves (i.e proofs) with their five senses.
Maybe if this guy could prove he was from the future.
but anyway, youre confusing athiests with people who generally doubt things
would religious people believe that someone was taken by aliens or thrown through a black hole? i don't know.
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If someone had more senses than you, and would explain something perceived with those senses, you would call it crap -- you don't trust someone else unless you have the same 'capacity' as him so you can experience or 'see' that yourself.
You have mentioned this before.
I don't care if this guy has another sense.
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Of course you would argue that the person who was sent back in time shouldn't bother explaining that to someone else -- but not all people are like that.
Would I?
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In fact that is why Jesus was 'sent' here. Note furthermore that if you think that the aformentioned person shouldn't bother with the others, then why should we 'religious' people bother to explain God to atheists?
They shouldn't..
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of course most of us actually try to explain our perspectives, in the Bible it says we should help our brothers and sisters.
Why did god put the serpent in the garden of eden?
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Like I said in a post (forgot the page ), if you are evil and deserve to go to Hell, you aren't afraid of yourself, then neither should you be afraid of Hell.
I was more afraid of hell when I believed in god than now.
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People don't do Goodness because they want to get to Heaven -- that is a child's point of view.
Wrong.
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We do goodness because that how our minds/spirit is. It defines us.
Maybe some.
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I for example even go further so as to respect any creatures around, including Animals, nature and possibly Aliens as well
They aren't created in gods image but!
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And perhaps even static objects -- even if there were no fish, or endangered species because of polluting the water, I still would have not polluted it
Yet you do pollute it..
@The Death:
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I only said that the Big Bang should be just as silly for atheists as God -- same questions, same unanswered things...
Big bang explains the accelerating universe etc. There is evidence for the big bang.
And angelito is right, we don't devote our life to the big bang
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but of course atheists actually have a religion -- the big bang religion. and believe in it.
Commandment:
Thou shalt not believe.
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Are you sure?
Something pulls you down (gravity) -- how can you be sure that's not God?
hahaha
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If something happens, how can you be sure that's not God?
Right, so we should just attribute everything to god and call it quits?
Maybe god causes gravity, but that doesn't mean gravity is god, speaking in terms of a believer. If god made precipitation, it doesnt mean god is falling from the sky on a stormy day there is still such a thing as the phenomenon of rain, just as there is gravity, regardless of the existence of god.
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Just because you don't accept that as being God and try to explain it differently, that doesn't mean there is no 'evidence' for God.
Oh, so there is evidence for god? 
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Isn't Jesus an evidence that you don't want to take into account? Or perhaps the Bible?
Those aren't evidence.
If I say the boogey man exists and write it down in a book, doesn't mean that he does.
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Remember the light has different 'models', photons, waves, rays.. Depending on which you choose, you have different evidence
Photon = wave = ray...
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EDIT: Perhaps the only way for atheists to really change their minds (maybe not for God, but at least that someone created us, including virtual simulations), is when we will actually design a computer world and artificial intelligence living in it. (like in the matrix movies).
Then we will see how the A.I. (designed similar to us, humans), will do pretty much the same things -- and the probability that we are created by something (or live in a 'virtual' world) will increase A LOT.
lol..
If we created an AI system, maybe it would behave differently to us. But that doesn't prove god, in the slightest?
It's completely irrelevant.
Your main argument seems to be that GOD IS POSSIBLE. yes, very slightly, theoretically possible. But going by those lines, so is everything. You have to be judgemental. You can't believe everything you're told. You don't have to show evidence that something isn't there because if it isn't, there is no proof! and for this reason, this doesn't mean that the thing exists, but the opposite. You make it sound wise to follow this, though, you call it faith, belief, trust, honesty etc but it's really just being gullible. Just because the story is old doesn't make it true. Anyone who has lived in this world can tell that there is no way for such a god to exist in this universe, unless you have been converted by the powerful story since you were young, because the story nowadays is flawless. You are trying to prove god by changing the story into "god is impossible to disprove, the end". Just because you say something is doesn't make it so (same goes for this Jesus kid who got himself killed). That's why people ignore their surrounding which are crying out that religion is false, because the story sounds good. You may say that heaven isn't a part of it, but I tell you that eternal paradise is THE BIGGEST selling point for these religions.
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On the killing discussion (sorry but just a note), killing is a sin in religion -- so whoever kills means he is not with God. Like I said, people blame religion for their mistakes because it's a perfect excuse. So those with God are not killing anyone, in fact we respect all life and the wonders of nature. When people say "In the name of God", they are not following the religion.. they could as well be satanists, however the quote would then be "In the name of Satan"
hope that clarifies a bit
More killings have been done in the name of god than for any other reason.
And killing is a fundamental part of the bible you trust.
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"punch Jesus in the cheek/jaw and he'll turn around his other cheek/jaw"
It means, instead of retaliating as most people do when being hit, he turns around his other jaw for the one who hits him, to 'hit' again if he wants more. Something along those lines.
No wonder he got killed..
@Swamplord:
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Scientists can also do the same thing. Just because some scientists and businessmen are corrupt, doesn't mean the whole institution is. Every group has bad members.
Yes, damn those corrupt scientists!...
wait a minute...
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John says to live above hell.
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Lith-Maethor
Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
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posted May 10, 2007 10:17 AM |
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maintenance post
==spam ashrah and previous maintenance posts deleted==
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You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted May 11, 2007 03:41 PM |
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We can see the effects of magnetic fields..
But we can't see the effects of the 'parallel' universe field
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Or should they just take all of my words as true? Plus aliens are theoretically very likely, based on our knowledge of the universe.
Ever wondered that Aliens can be completely different? For example, not based on carbon life? It's actually much more likely that they are completely different.
This likely thing is also subjective, for me it is very likely that God exists -- the laws of physics are so 'ordered' and not in chaos
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You're right, we should believe everything we're told, end of story
You were told about the theory of evolution.
You were told about science.
You were told about calculus.
You were told about the pi value, 3.1415....
You were told about anything.
Otherwise you would be in stone age.
So yeah, you should believe all the science you're told, otherwise you cannot possibly prove everything all the humans before have done (Einstein, Pythagora, Euler, etc..).
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You make it sound like a bad thing.
It is a bad thing.
If you created a race on your own, how many times would you need to send 'Jesus' down to explain them that you exist (yeah btw they never see you because they are in a virtual world).
You really want to meet Jesus/Adam/etc in person before trusting his story, right? Then it means the world would need to be full of Jesuses. Let's suppose he comes now. People from 10 years now will want to see him again. People from 10 years afterwards will want again...
it never ends.
How do you know the general relativity/science is true? Have you tested all of it? No, scientists have tested it, but you believe them. A drunk person doesn't find 3+3 = 6 logical, and says it's not proof!! he says it equals 33 
maybe we are just too 'handicapped' in this world to perceive the actual 'logic' and restrict only to the common sense logic.
The point about God and Jesus is, to believe in a 'God' in a human shape, like Jesus. He was sent 2000 years ago. People either believe in Him or not.
What now? You want a video of the whole story to believe in it? Then that's ignorant because he did his purpose to explain it to us. People often twisted his teachings.
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would religious people believe that someone was taken by aliens or thrown through a black hole? i don't know.
Ok, perhaps I should've said humans.
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I don't care if this guy has another sense.
If you don't care, then it means you don't care about his story as well. Which of course, seems that you think is fake.
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Why did god put the serpent in the garden of eden?
Why are the laws of physics set this way?
hint: The Lord works in Mysterious ways
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I was more afraid of hell when I believed in god than now.
I don't think you were getting the big picture of religion (or path) if you were like that. Seriously
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Wrong.
Wrong!!! 
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They aren't created in gods image but!
They are still His creations though
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Yet you do pollute it..
I don't get it
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted May 11, 2007 05:45 PM |
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Quote:
You were told about the theory of evolution.
You were told about science.
You were told about calculus.
You were told about the pi value, 3.1415....
You were told about anything.
Otherwise you would be in stone age.
So yeah, you should believe all the science you're told, otherwise you cannot possibly prove everything all the humans before have done (Einstein, Pythagora, Euler, etc..).
But at least u can find evidences for the majority of all those "science things" you were told. But u have NONE refering to god/jesus or anyhting related to that, just a book called Bible....period. And this is the great difference. If both sides would have about the same value of "evidences" to prove their theories, everything would be fine.....but it is NOT like that.
Religious people just state an opinion....and u can believe it or not. Scientists have to bring EVIDENCES for their theories to take them any serious.
I think a mammoth created the whole world...decided to stay a bit on planet earth to see how things go...and then disappear and let them other creatures take control over the planet.
You got any evidence AGAINST this theory?
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted May 11, 2007 05:53 PM |
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Religious people just state an opinion....and u can believe it or not. Scientists have to bring EVIDENCES for their theories to take them any serious.
Well, I wasn't talking about religious people stating an opinion, but Jesus.
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I think a mammoth created the whole world...decided to stay a bit on planet earth to see how things go...and then disappear and let them other creatures take control over the planet.
You got any evidence AGAINST this theory?
Nope, I don't have anything at all against it and it might very well be true
But I'm telling you the Devil pushes us down to the core of the Earth, not gravity.
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TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
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posted May 12, 2007 02:21 PM |
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Doesn't that make the devil gravity then? 
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John says to live above hell.
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TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
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Professional
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posted May 12, 2007 02:33 PM |
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Quote:
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We can see the effects of magnetic fields..
But we can't see the effects of the 'parallel' universe field
That's an entirely different thing..
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Ever wondered that Aliens can be completely different? For example, not based on carbon life? It's actually much more likely that they are completely different.
Well that's debateable, although irrelevant
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This likely thing is also subjective, for me it is very likely that God exists -- the laws of physics are so 'ordered' and not in chaos
What do you base that on...
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You were told about the theory of evolution.
You were told about science.
You were told about calculus.
You were told about the pi value, 3.1415....
You were told about anything.
Otherwise you would be in stone age.
So yeah, you should believe all the science you're told, otherwise you cannot possibly prove everything all the humans before have done (Einstein, Pythagora, Euler, etc..).
Don't be ridiculous. There is a difference between not having the proof in your hands and the proof not existing altogether...
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You make it sound like a bad thing.
It is a bad thing.
If you created a race on your own, how many times would you need to send 'Jesus' down to explain them that you exist (yeah btw they never see you because they are in a virtual world).
Are you saying that god can't prove himself in any other way than sending his 'son' down?
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You really want to meet Jesus/Adam/etc in person before trusting his story, right? Then it means the world would need to be full of Jesuses. Let's suppose he comes now. People from 10 years now will want to see him again. People from 10 years afterwards will want again...
Even if I met Jesus I would still laugh at him, unless he performed a miracle..
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How do you know the general relativity/science is true? Have you tested all of it? No, scientists have tested it, but you believe them. A drunk person doesn't find 3+3 = 6 logical, and says it's not proof!! he says it equals 33
You don't really believe what you're saying.
Again, there's a difference between proof existing and not actually being present in front of me right now, like general relativity, and not existing at all in any form, like god.
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maybe we are just too 'handicapped' in this world to perceive the actual 'logic' and restrict only to the common sense logic.
MAYBE
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What now? You want a video of the whole story to believe in it? Then that's ignorant because he did his purpose to explain it to us. People often twisted his teachings.
Yes.
Imagine that another man, 2000 years ago, wrote a book saying how wicked cool this other guy he knows is. And that he could you fly and turn salad sandwiches into beer.
Would this story be any different?
Would you believe it?
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would religious people believe that someone was taken by aliens or thrown through a black hole? i don't know.
Ok, perhaps I should've said humans.
In which case your argument doesn't apply to the topic..
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I was more afraid of hell when I believed in god than now.
I don't think you were getting the big picture of religion (or path) if you were like that. Seriously
You seem to think that heaven and hell aren't a part of religion, when they are actually the fundamental ideas of it..
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Yet you do pollute it..
I don't get it
You do pollute the environment, even now... You said you wouldnt, is all.
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Why did god put the serpent in the garden of eden?
Why are the laws of physics set this way?
hint: The Lord works in Mysterious ways
The lord works in stupid ways more like it.
He put the serpent there knowing full well what it was going to do, cause the sins of man etc, so therefore god caused the sins of man, so I'm not repenting for that. It's your fault god. You're supposed to be everywhere anyway where were you when the serpent (which you put in your garden) was ruining everything for me?? Seems as though god wants us in hell. In which case, we shall all do as god wishes, for he is the lord our god.
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John says to live above hell.
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jlewlotr
Hired Hero
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posted May 13, 2007 12:30 AM |
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There will never be a conclusion to this debate because each side of the argument comes from a completely different paradigm. One believes in a spiritual/metaphyical aspect of the universe and one believes that physics governs everything, and so there is no way for one to prove or disprove the other. Plus I think arguing about it so aggressively just widens the rift between both sides. There is no way anyoneone will prove to Titanium Alloy that there is a God, because he only trusts tangible proof, and frankly there is no tangible proof. Fair enough. For everyone else (myself included) you have faith in things you cannot see. I for one, believe in God because it just feels right to me. I can't explain why, and I won't try to. When I read about or hear about Him in church, it makes as much sense to me as science. And I have a very scientific and logic-oriented mind. Plus I know with 100% certainty that my beliefs have made me a better person.
Also, God didn't say to go out and prove His existance through scientific experimentation, he said to convey His message of love. THAT is the most important thing. I do believe that if you always strive to live selflessly, righteously and lovingly, that is the path to belief in God, if you don't already believe. And the only way you will be able to convince people is through the way you act, not what you drill into their heads.
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TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
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Professional
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posted May 13, 2007 03:59 AM |
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So we can get to heaven without believing in god?
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John says to live above hell.
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SwampLord
Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
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posted May 13, 2007 04:04 AM |
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It's possible, I believe, if you act by Christian values, even if you aren't. God loves everyone equally.
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TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
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posted May 13, 2007 04:08 AM |
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I thought you had to repent and that.
but that'd be pretty messed up for the atheist who gets there. you'd be in a world in which nothing was real
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John says to live above hell.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted May 13, 2007 10:49 AM |
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I thought you had to repent and that.
but that'd be pretty messed up for the atheist who gets there. you'd be in a world in which nothing was real
Yeah well going from a dream/illusion (the 'real' world) to Heaven or whatever is certainly misleading
By the way, God did not create robots, he created humans -- if he proved His existence to us (and He did once, with Jesus), and made us all good by 'force' (and though the Devil has some part in this 'evil' doing as well) we would be robots.
Proof that magnetic fields exist? Metal is attracted by magnets, for example
Proof that God exists? We live and feel and touch... and the laws of physics are set this way. And yes, I do feel God, who knows, maybe I have a new sense
God's existence (for atheists) is not less likely than the laws of physics set in this 'logical' way and btw, unlike the "plane created from random explosions" thing mentioned before, which could happen infinite times so the probability is increased, the laws of physics are not different between successive Big Bangs
The Devil always wants to 'show' God that people join him because they are evil... there was a story about a very faithful man. The Devil took everything he had, just to prove to God that he will finally spit on God's face because God left him with nothing. The man's reply was something like: "God gave it, God took it. God's name be blessed" or something similar. Finally the Devil gave up on this man, and God gave him everything back, but the most important was the act of the man which never lost his faith or hope, which suggests a very strong spirit, not one which gaves up whenever something bad happens.
or something like that. yeah it was a religious story, but a good moral one as well.
The problem with current people is that they have become too smart***es and arrogant, and don't have honour anymore.
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TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
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posted May 13, 2007 02:07 PM |
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Why did god create the devil?
or was the devil always there as well?
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John says to live above hell.
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SwampLord
Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
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posted May 13, 2007 02:11 PM |
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He has always been too. Supposedly, he's not as powerful, but God cannot harm him.
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