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Istari
Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
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posted July 23, 2007 04:18 PM |
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My wife and I had a baby!!! I will try to respond to posts directed toward me, but I have much less time and sleep now. Once I get caught up reading what I've missed I'll try to respond when I have time.
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Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong.
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angelito
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proud father of a princess
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posted July 23, 2007 04:25 PM |
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There are already at least TWO people who lived longer than 120. One of them is this french lady.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Doomforge
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posted July 23, 2007 04:33 PM |
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could be a mutation effect, or the death gene, which simply directs the body to deteriorate and die, isn't that constant in its timer.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 23, 2007 05:45 PM |
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Indeed it probably isn't constant. And I was unaware of anyone living that long, Angelito. Thanks for the information.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted July 23, 2007 05:57 PM |
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120 year sudden death gene? Where did you hear such a thing?
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 23, 2007 06:34 PM |
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I've actually never heard of it. But if it exists, then it's probably like I say.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Doomforge
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posted July 23, 2007 10:32 PM |
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Quote:
120 year sudden death gene? Where did you hear such a thing?
it's not that sudden I think, anyways just type "death gene" in google if you wish. I found an article about in on polish newsportal some time ago.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted July 23, 2007 10:59 PM |
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Edited by Corribus at 23:14, 23 Jul 2007.
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There are genes, often referring to as "death genes", that control apoptosis, or programmed cell death. The programmed "suicide" of old and damaged cells has obvious benefits to an organism and thus can easily be rationalized as an outcome of natural selection. This goes on constantly on a cellular level - and mutations in these genes are believed to play a major role in the growth of cancers.
There is no gene that regulates the programmed death of an entire organism (phenoptosis) in an age-specific way, not to my knowledge and not according to a few (although admittedly cursory) searches of the literature I have done since you brought it up. There are some reports out there of phenoptosis in a couple of organisms but they are poorly understood... certainly no "phenoptosis gene" has been discovered in humans. Even without searching for reports of such a gene it is easy to be skeptical of such a claim - what purpose would it serve? Why would it have evolved? Doesn't make much sense to me.
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Doomforge
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posted July 23, 2007 11:39 PM |
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well, if I could find the article, I would link it.. It's not apoptosis because apoptosis is a response to cell damage or tumour. I do not remember much now. The article was a speculation, but most of the biological facts there seemed quite logical to me.
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted July 24, 2007 11:10 AM |
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Quote:
There are already at least TWO people who lived longer than 120. One of them is this french lady.
game over
well done Angelito on using simple logic that I seem to have forgone 
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TheDeath
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with serious business
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posted July 24, 2007 01:32 PM |
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Who says I trust the media?
If articles/wikipedia aren't media (or at least, what they are based on, like that lady's story supposedly based on some news/media) then what are they? 
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game over
well done Angelito on using simple logic that I seem to have forgone
What do you mean? 
Besides, women can live longer than men usually.
What if her identity has been changed with a younger person by some secret agency? (for whatever purposes)
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angelito
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posted July 24, 2007 01:34 PM |
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Quote:
Besides, women can live longer than men usually.
Does the bible refer to a specific gender when it comes to that "120 year sudden death gene"?
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What if her identity has been changed with a younger person by some secret agency? (for whatever purposes)
What if not?
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted July 24, 2007 01:44 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Who says I trust the media?
If articles/wikipedia aren't media (or at least, what they are based on, like that lady's story supposedly based on some news/media) then what are they?
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game over
well done Angelito on using simple logic that I seem to have forgone
What do you mean?
Besides, women can live longer than men usually.
What if her identity has been changed with a younger person by some secret agency? (for whatever purposes)
lol. and what if everyone lives to six billion and their identities have been changed.
play fair the death, you're not debating, you're thinking of 'comebacks' to the evidence at any expense.
Women do live longer than men on average, but that's completely unrelated to this.
Besides, the other person is a male, Shigechiyo Izumi, born2 9 June 1865, died 21 February 1986.
And if you want to label someone's life (age of death specifically) as media in a negative sense, then everyone is the media, hence all human civilization is the media according to your logic, including the bible... *sigh*
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Doomforge
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posted July 24, 2007 03:45 PM |
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Izumi is controversial; He might not have lived that long.
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mvassilev
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posted July 24, 2007 05:17 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Who says I trust the media?
If articles/wikipedia aren't media (or at least, what they are based on, like that lady's story supposedly based on some news/media) then what are they?
The term "media" usually means "the news". And I don't trust Wikipedia without reservation. But I see nothing wrong with those articles. They are proof of people living past 120.
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Doomforge
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posted July 24, 2007 05:29 PM |
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You call a single case a proof? I can proove humans have two heads, then.
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mvassilev
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posted July 24, 2007 05:47 PM |
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Firstly, it's two cases, not one.
Secondly, unless a human has some sort of deformity/disorder/condition, you can't tell how long it'll live by looking at it at birth. So the long-living people were not that different, they just had the right genetic combinations (and lived a generally healthy life, and didn't die in an accident/homicide). Humans with two heads is a completely different story.
You've seen proof of people living past 120. By showing me proof of people with two heads, you would prove to me that people can have two heads. You can't prove that all people have two heads, just like I can't prove that all people live past 120 (they don't). But I can prove that it is possible to live past 120, just like you can prove that people can have two heads.
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Doomforge
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posted July 24, 2007 05:56 PM |
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People can't have two heads. Unless the genetical information gets severely corrupted during the translation and transcription processes.
You see the big picture? WHat I wanted to say is that ONE genetic sensation is no proof, but merely an exception that proves the rule. Ofc I'm not certain that there is such rule  But if there is..
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dimis
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posted July 24, 2007 07:32 PM |
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I believe you already let it go (claiming that unobservable things can not be the object of science), but I want to say something else:
Quote:
Quote:
1) claim that science can apply the unobservable phenomena and support that claim
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You mean like electromagnetic fields and such?
Are they measurable? I guess yes. That makes them observable.
Were electromagnetic fields measurable 300 years ago?
Moreover, science is based on axioms. Axioms are sentences that try to capture our intuition about the world. But intuition does not necessarily mean something observable. Btw, I think that I already refuted your claim that Quote:
science does not apply to unobservable phenomena
The counter-example was the notion of the set and Set Theory in general.
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mvassilev
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posted July 24, 2007 07:45 PM |
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Quote:
People can't have two heads. Unless the genetical information gets severely corrupted during the translation and transcription processes.
I thought that we're both using that as an example. And one body can have two heads: Siamese twins. They're two people, but it's two heads on one body, so...
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