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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Advanced English Lesson - Please help!
Thread: Advanced English Lesson - Please help! This thread is 16 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 · «PREV / NEXT»
Binabik
Binabik


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted August 28, 2006 09:54 PM

In the US at least, "ain't" is somewhat regional in it's use. It's used a lot where I live and would just be considered very casual, but not necessarily uneducated. When I lived in California, it would sound more uneducated.

Can also be have not or do not or maybe others I haven't thought of. Often used with other incorrect grammar. The double negative was already mentioned. ain't never would be common, but I've never heard ain't not used. You would also hear ain't got no, ain't gonna or ain't seen, etc.

To be safe, it would be best to not use it at all. Even casual, it's a small minority of people who use it regularly.
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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted August 28, 2006 09:58 PM

Let people speak the way they do.
It dont make you all around a better person then they are.
Who cares .


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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted January 21, 2007 03:00 PM

Thread revived with the latest correction by Binabik of a phrase (thread title) I used short time ago. It was pretty confusing at first, but I guess I got it now. Here is the quote:

Quote:
<<Anyone knows a good tactic with 100 halflings vs 1 Azure Dragon?>>

he/she/it knows
we/they know

Of course, anyone knows that.
(does) anyone know a good tactic?

Everyone knows that.
Every one of you know that.
Each one of you knows that.

It's confusing, isn't it?


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Ecoris
Ecoris


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted January 21, 2007 04:00 PM

The other day, I started wondering whether alot is correct. A web search revealed that it's actually spelled a lot. That may be difficult to remember but as the page kindly informed: "just remind yourself that just as you wouldn't write alittle you shouldn’t write alot."

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Binabik
Binabik


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted January 22, 2007 12:40 PM

It seemed right at the time I wrote it...but now that I think about it:

Every one of you know that.
Each one of you knows that.

I'm not sure if those are correct, especially the first one. Ignoring the prepositional phrase you have:

Every one know(s) that.
Each one knows that.

I think the first is singular and therefore needs the "S". Compare to:

Every house has a roof.
Each house has a roof.

OK, I talked myself into it. I think they are both singular.


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Vlaad
Vlaad


Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
posted January 22, 2007 01:09 PM

By the way...

Quote:
In the US at least, "ain't" is somewhat regional in it's use.
It's not it's, it's its.
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Binabik
Binabik


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted January 22, 2007 01:23 PM

Quote:
It's not it's, it's its.
Wasn't I the first one to say that? Maybe I should listen to myself.

And to prevent mixing up "your" and "you're", I would suggest using another regional dialect/accent. The word "yer" works for both.

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Vlaad
Vlaad


Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
posted January 22, 2007 01:52 PM
Edited by Vlaad at 14:09, 22 Jan 2007.

Quote:
Quote:
It's not it's, it's its.
Wasn't I the first one to say that?
Really? It's all over the web (here's a funny link), but I could have read it here. I like saying it in class. I guess I owe you the royalties! lol
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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted January 22, 2007 03:37 PM

Quote:
..Wasn't I the first one to say that?..
This sentence made me think a while. Maybe I recall it wrong, but I thought if u "point" towards yourself, you always use "me" instead of "I".

Who wants to play a game? --> Me.
Who killed the dog? --> Me.

So if I had to create the sentence above, I would have written:
Wasn't it me saying that for the first time?

Is that nonsense?
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TnT_Addict
TnT_Addict


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Beautiful Liar
posted January 22, 2007 03:56 PM
Edited by TnT_Addict at 15:59, 22 Jan 2007.

Quote:
Who killed the dog? --> Me.

I don't think that's enough of an answer to the question, I would say either of these 2 phrases:

1) I did.

2) It was me.
Quote:
Who wants to play a game? --> Me.

Again not a full answer:

1) I do.

2) Me wants game now!
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted January 22, 2007 04:04 PM

Quote:
Quote:
..Wasn't I the first one to say that?..
This sentence made me think a while. Maybe I recall it wrong, but I thought if u "point" towards yourself, you always use "me" instead of "I".

Who wants to play a game? --> Me.
Who killed the dog? --> Me.

So if I had to create the sentence above, I would have written:
Wasn't it me saying that for the first time?

Is that nonsense?


I actually think that's plain wrong. At least in danish, it's a very common mistake to replace "I" with "me" in places where it's actually not correct.

I think you use "I" when you do the action ("I" want and "I" killed) whereas you use "me" when you when you are the target - thus: "I" bought the present for "me". So I think TNT_Addict is very correct in what he says.

But maybe it's different in English. Vlaad probably knows.
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JoonasTo
JoonasTo


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted January 22, 2007 04:34 PM

Wasn't I the first one to say that?

That seems right to me but I'm just a finnish high school student so ignore me.
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Ecoris
Ecoris


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted January 22, 2007 05:05 PM

Wasn't I the first one to say that? Is correct. Wasn't is clearly the sentence verb (verbum) and I is the subject. The subject is always in the nominative case which is I not me.
War Ich nicht ...
Var jeg ikke ...
Wasn't I ...
There's no difference.

He is a better player than I/me (?) . AFAIK I is correct but me is used a lot; in Denmark it is more far more common to make this mistake than not to make it. But:
He played against me. Is correct. I think the difference is that the first statement is a comparison. However, if I am not mistaken it's exactly the same in both Danish and German:
Er ist ein besserer Spieler als ich. (Is ich spelled with a capital I?)
Han er en bedre spiller end jeg.
and
Er spielte gegen mich.
Han spillede mod mig.

You know, Angelito, while English has adopted a lot of words from the Latin languages it is still closer to German and Danish in structure and grammar.
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Khaelo
Khaelo


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
posted January 22, 2007 06:28 PM
Edited by Khaelo at 18:38, 22 Jan 2007.

Quote:
He is a better player than I/me (?) . AFAIK I is correct but me is used a lot; ... But:
He played against me. Is correct. I think the difference is that the first statement is a comparison. ...

Agreed.  The complete statement is "He is a better player than I am."  Whether you include the am or not, the correct form of the pronoun is I.  The statements on either side of than are supposed to be parallel, so the pronouns should be in the same case.  In normal usage, though, people say me.  I sounds more formal, too formal in most cases.  

"He played against me" is correct both officially and in real usage because against is a preposition, and me is the acceptable form after a preposition.  
Quote:
in Denmark it is more far more common to make this mistake than not to make it.

Same here.  The official grammar isn't the same as how people actually speak the language.  Interesting how the actual usage is changing in the same way in both Danish and English.    German too?

A similar situation in English is "It's me" / "That's me" (typical responses to "Is [your name] there?" on the phone).  According to official grammar, the pronouns on both sides of is should be nominative.  So the complete grammatical form is "It is I" / "That is I" "It's I / That's I." According to grammar-on-the-street, pronouns after is, are, was, etc. slide into me, him, her, et cetera.  "It is I" sounds old-fashioned and self-important, and "That's I" is just plain weird.    Everyone uses "That's me."  If you're really picky about being correct, you can use "This is" and skip the pronouns altogether.  

(Advanced English question from English speaker:  When using a Latin abbreviation like "etc." at the end of a sentence, does the abbreviation period double as the end-of-the-sentence period?  Two periods in a row looks awfully odd.)

edit: legibility, clarity, yikes!
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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted January 22, 2007 07:25 PM

I know what u mean Ecoris, but TnT made a good example which shows sometimes it is different to german:

Quote:
Who killed the dog? --> It was me.
This sounds like a correct answer. But u wouldn't use "me" in german in such a  case (Es war mich??)
Ich war es --> It was me.

On the other hand, "It was I" sounds pretty strange...

That's why I thought the english "me" not always stands for "mich", but also for "ich" in some cases...

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Shadowcaster
Shadowcaster


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Shaded Scribe
posted January 22, 2007 07:52 PM

Quote:
(Advanced English question from English speaker:  When using a Latin abbreviation like "etc." at the end of a sentence, does the abbreviation period double as the end-of-the-sentence period?  Two periods in a row looks awfully odd.)


I don't know if there's a rule, but I've never seen a case where it is considered correct to add another period after any abbreviation that ends a sentence. The only exception I could see would be that of a quotation that terminates at the end of a sentence, but even then I believe there's just one.
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Vlaad
Vlaad


Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
posted January 22, 2007 08:38 PM
Edited by Vlaad at 20:40, 22 Jan 2007.

Like alci said, I should be used when it is the subject of the sentence. Me should be used for the object of the sentence (direct or indirect). Also:

- I'm going home.
- Me too.

- I don't like it.
- Me neither.

- Who's there?
- It's me.


I understand cleft sentences are confusing. Cleft sentences are composed of two clauses:

It was me who won the battle.
(It was me | who won the battle.)

Like Khaelo said, you can use both (I is more formal). Again, pay attention to the meaning:

It's me she wants. (object)
It's I she wants.
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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted January 22, 2007 10:36 PM

Quote:
You know, Angelito, while English has adopted a lot of words from the Latin languages it is still closer to German and Danish in structure and grammar.

This is especially apparent in Old English.  Modern English sort of merged the accusative and dative cases into one, while German (and presumably Danish) still makes a distinction between the two.  In English we also don't add all of our verbs to the end of the sentence.

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Ecoris
Ecoris


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted January 23, 2007 12:37 PM

Nowadays in Denmark we only use the nominative case (and genitive of course). You see remains of other cases. Pronouns are the obvious example but as in English there is no distinction between accusative and dative as there is in German. In English (and Danish) the pronoun is the same when it is used as direct and indirect object; I gave him to her. / I gave her to him. Him is direct object in the first sentence but indirect object in the second one (and vice versa for her). In German the direct object should be in the accusative case while the indirect object is dative. Prepositions can be both accusative and dative depending on which preposition is used (and also how it is used, and in some cases genitive is also used...).
Okay I better stop before my limited knowledge of German becomes too clear. Bottom line is that Danish pronouns are the same in their accusative and dative forms like English, but unlike German. However we do have the 'plural' form: It's my dragon. / They're my dragons.. My is used in both sentences; in Danish we would use min in the first sentence and mine in the second one. In German 'my' would also be inflected depending on case. On the other hand consider It's my dragon. / The dragon is mine. We do not have this distinction (my/mine) in Danish.

Whatever, grammar is so (unnecessary) complex; I'm glad I study mathematics...

Another (and more interesting) aspect of how languages influence each other is this one (bearing in mind that this post is moving partially off-topic): Every now and then when there's some occasion for it an old discussion about how English influences Danish and what we should do about it starts again. The primary concern is that Danish words are slowly displaced by their English versions. Even a few sentence constructions have found their way over here, and they really sound awkward but many people use them. The first issue does not annoy me but the latter does.
I guess that other countries have similar debates but that's not the point I'm getting at (anyone from Iceland here? ).
When the discussion starts again I always wonder how the native English speakers feel about how those who don't have English as their native language use it. Take HC as an example. I'm sure you read dozens of posts with odd errors that native English speakers would never make (even though they may not care about their grammar on an internet forum). So my question is: Do you feel that there is a pressure on English from the rest of the world by virtue of the way we use it?
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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted January 23, 2007 04:44 PM
Edited by Corribus at 16:45, 23 Jan 2007.

That doesn't really bother me.  English is such a hodgepodge of words and phrases from other cultures anyway. Being such an international language, it is bound to pick up traits from other languages.  

And while we're on pet peeves, my personal English annoyance (for some reason that I cannot identify) is when people use ensure and insure incorrectly.  Usually people use the latter when they should use the former.  Pay attention and you will see it everywhere, even in official documents, novels, etc.  Even most editors miss it or don't know the difference.  Drives me nuts for some inexplicable reason.

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