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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted December 28, 2006 03:02 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
In a battle with the same amount of creatures Necropolis losses against every other faction
You can't compare them like that. Because:
In every battle after the early game Necropolis will have 1K archers even with a half-decent player leadning them and will win the battle even if Zoltan is the commanding hero
You just never listen... >_<
I'm talking about equal battle! Not after the battle!
Like in the Duel mode.
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hellwitch
Known Hero
Skeleton Ruler
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posted December 28, 2006 03:42 AM |
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Quote:
In every battle after the early game Necropolis will have 1K archers even with a half-decent player leadning them and will win the battle even if Zoltan is the commanding hero
Zoltan is not so bad against warlocks and wizards.
And for the Necros. Well they depends on the quantity of the nearby creeps.
Example : on medium or bigger random map from Tapani's random generator with neutral on strong the Necros are unbeatable because there are plenty of creeps and even Deleb can't reach them in time.
That is necro - it strongly depends from the potential skelletons around them.
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Fortress_fan
Disgraceful
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posted December 28, 2006 03:49 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
In a battle with the same amount of creatures Necropolis losses against every other faction
You can't compare them like that. Because:
In every battle after the early game Necropolis will have 1K archers even with a half-decent player leadning them and will win the battle even if Zoltan is the commanding hero
You just never listen... >_<
I'm talking about equal battle! Not after the battle!
Like in the Duel mode.
Since when is Duel mode balanced? You can't base your entire opinion on that. When do you face an equal battle against the necros in a REAL game? Even the AI mostly have 500-800 skeleton archers.
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Fortress_fan
Disgraceful
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posted December 28, 2006 03:57 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Zoltan is not so bad against warlocks and wizards.
His special seems interesting but that Eagle eye thingy is a waste of a slot.
Anyway, even if you use Orson you would win against useless Sylvan...
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hellwitch
Known Hero
Skeleton Ruler
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posted December 28, 2006 04:01 AM |
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Quote:
You just never listen... >_<
I'm talking about equal battle! Not after the battle!
Like in the Duel mode.
So in Duels all Necro heros are awesome.
- Raven - great ice spells
- Orson - just need to keep the skell alive longer and get the win
- Deidre - master of puppet - Mark of the necro combo is quite good.
So in Duel mode Necro is one of the best. Warlocks sucks in Duel - just look at most players stats and you will see it.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted December 28, 2006 04:03 AM |
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fortress_fan: yes, demons are bad  They are total rubbish! But they are durable.. and that's it. They are meant to survive a few turns until my hero and the ballista kills everything around. Gating helps vs slow ones - or big ones. After a few turns tent ressurects a good ammount of fallen demons to minimize the loses. But you don't really need to care for them even if you lose all, as long you win the combat.
Oh, and with a tiny stack of demons, melee creatures LOVE to focus on warmachines. And they never succed in destroying them - cuz they have 1k HP. That buys a few turns aswell!
Once they gather around the demons, the ballista will hit several stacks at once, which results in massive destruction.. Oh, and mark of the damned shines here, best if powered by other skills like excruciating or weakining strike.
About the necros: I think Zoltan may shine against haven. Imagine that he blocked cleansing.. After the paladins are gone, nothing will help against massive dark-magic spree. Frenzy or puppet master on marksmen? bwahahaha 
Thanks to his arcane intuition, you can learn a bunch of spells quickly through your own arch liches! Good way to get the magic without paying for the guilds! (ahh, if only the liches had confusion..  )
About vladmir, the only reason of taking him early is the haunted mines perk, making it possible to mass ghosts along with skeletons. (good, since your army is weaker, you need the boosted numbers..)His bonus seems to small to me - +1 to SP every five levels.. naw, it's not enough. And, since every necro has raise dead and can reach summoning magic easily..
And Kaspar.. Umm, I recently discovered that you can creep almost everything even without him.. Vampires are great tank creatures, and rise dead covers all the loses from ranged mobs. I think it's better to go for other hero now. Lucretia's Sorcery sucks, but it can give you intelligence quickly, so you can creep more agrresively (more raisedeads to cast ) Plus, the bonus to Vampires is always good, since your only units on a mediocre-rich maps are Skellies, ghosts, vamps and liches.
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RectusDominus
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 28, 2006 11:59 AM |
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I think this game is really balanced, the longer I play, the harder I find it to pick a favourite, every town has great benefits:
* dungeon: empowered spells, massive spellpower, irresistable magic (byebye marksmen)
* haven: a heavy hitter, mighty units, self-explanatory
* sylvan: uni's + soldiers luck offer great anti-magic, and combination of trees and shooters is nice
* academy: mark of the wizard with destructive can cause lota damage/stun/freeze, and splitting genies and mages is a pain in the ass
* necro: necromancy, huge stacks of skeletons/ghosts/zombies
* inferno: I would say this castle is a bit weaker than the rest, though massive gating could double ur army
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RectusDominus
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 28, 2006 12:15 PM |
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Oops, I forgot the dwarfs, I think fortress is no less than the rest, runes are ideal for the 'creative' player and I rlly like the hero called Svea cuz she starts out with irresistable stunning lightning
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Fortress_fan
Disgraceful
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posted December 28, 2006 12:15 PM |
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Quote:
fortress_fan: yes, demons are bad They are total rubbish! But they are durable.. and that's it. They are meant to survive a few turns until my hero and the ballista kills everything around. Gating helps vs slow ones - or big ones. After a few turns tent ressurects a good ammount of fallen demons to minimize the loses. But you don't really need to care for them even if you lose all, as long you win the combat.
Oh, and with a tiny stack of demons, melee creatures LOVE to focus on warmachines. And they never succed in destroying them - cuz they have 1k HP. That buys a few turns aswell!
Once they gather around the demons, the ballista will hit several stacks at once, which results in massive destruction.. Oh, and mark of the damned shines here, best if powered by other skills like excruciating or weakining strike.
About the necros: I think Zoltan may shine against haven. Imagine that he blocked cleansing.. After the paladins are gone, nothing will help against massive dark-magic spree. Frenzy or puppet master on marksmen? bwahahaha
Thanks to his arcane intuition, you can learn a bunch of spells quickly through your own arch liches! Good way to get the magic without paying for the guilds! (ahh, if only the liches had confusion.. )
About vladmir, the only reason of taking him early is the haunted mines perk, making it possible to mass ghosts along with skeletons. (good, since your army is weaker, you need the boosted numbers..)His bonus seems to small to me - +1 to SP every five levels.. naw, it's not enough. And, since every necro has raise dead and can reach summoning magic easily..
And Kaspar.. Umm, I recently discovered that you can creep almost everything even without him.. Vampires are great tank creatures, and rise dead covers all the loses from ranged mobs. I think it's better to go for other hero now. Lucretia's Sorcery sucks, but it can give you intelligence quickly, so you can creep more agrresively (more raisedeads to cast) Plus, the bonus to Vampires is always good, since your only units on a mediocre-rich maps are Skellies, ghosts, vamps and liches.
I have heard, it may have been just bad gossip, but some guy on the heroes round table said that this AI is the same AI that was used on Heroes III and IV with some improvements and cheating (extra gold every turn). No wonder it is so bad (just finished 1:rd Necro scenario, too easy even on Heroic difficulty).
Zoltan has a petty good speciality, but Arcane Intuition is just like Eagle eye. I fought against him in the "Maahirs gable" scenario, but his speciality wasn't enough to counter my troops.
Tested other necromancers, On the Vladimir vs. Kaspar thingy, I must say I favour Kaspar, through Lucretia is petty good to play with too, even if she starts with Sorcery. Raven, I played her scenario too, a petty decent speciality, but destructive magic could be better placed.
Anyway, even Orson or Deirdre can beat the sylvans, just give them two-three weeks and the elves go and plant flowers somewhere else.
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sq79
Famous Hero
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posted December 28, 2006 08:04 PM |
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Hehe been playing alot of multi player games and lately derived my strongest and weakest faction
Imho how i would rate them
1 : Sylvan - they're geat in any map more than 1 towns. Its hard to master and learn the right skills though. But they win with speed. ceatures have sick initiative
2 : Haven - they're great against any race except demons because the imps will steal all the heroes's mana and wack them with dark magic
3 : Dwarfs - They seem to take forever to kill, esp those magma dragons. A very balanced hero as well. And shield guard protects u from range units.
4 : Necros - Having the best start in the game is always nice They're the best in 1 town maps surely with necromancy
5 : Dungeon - They're fun to play, but too many artifacts in this game to reduce damage from their magic. Plus low defence of heroes make things hard for them but again in 1 town maps.. their magic is nice
6 : Academy - I've given up on them. They're hopeless against any factions. Esp sylvan and necros
Low att/def of hero development is costly for them
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cookie
Adventuring Hero
*cookie magic*
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posted December 28, 2006 08:15 PM |
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Edited by cookie at 20:16, 28 Dec 2006.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 28, 2006 08:21 PM |
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Dungeon also can use damage boosting artifacts.As for academy it requires a precice building tree with mage guilds and dwellings while you can't afford not to choose the right skills/abilities on sight.The same is true for the dwarves if you plan on creeping fast but at least they have good defence and specials to help.
So far my favourite strategy needs soldier's luck,a focus on warmachines and defence.Shieldguards on day 2(unless you have Karli) and blackbear riders on week 2 day 1.Citadel is essential in week 1 as I rely a lot on wound and paw strike and having bigger stacks increases the chance of triggering.What about you?
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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sq79
Famous Hero
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posted December 28, 2006 08:39 PM |
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Quote:
A-R-T-I-F-I-C-E-R
Yes if u play a game which last for 3-4 months... Not realistic in multiplayer games ...
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted December 28, 2006 09:17 PM |
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sylvan first? uhh, nice joke. Do you play "too big for you" maps, only? Otherwise you'll get rushed while you have almost nothing except ultra weak tier 1-3 units and a pair of druids.. say hi to deleb and leave the game lol
Oh and why have you skipped my beloved inferno on your list? I demand a high place of the hellish forces on it
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sq79
Famous Hero
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posted December 28, 2006 10:02 PM |
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Edited by sq79 at 22:17, 28 Dec 2006.
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Quote:
sylvan first? uhh, nice joke. Do you play "too big for you" maps, only? Otherwise you'll get rushed while you have almost nothing except ultra weak tier 1-3 units and a pair of druids.. say hi to deleb and leave the game lol
Oh and why have you skipped my beloved inferno on your list? I demand a high place of the hellish forces on it
Demons are good in the long run as well i don't deny.
Well deleb is kinda overpowered for rush maps.Its a known fact. If i played multi player on maps fight in week 1,2 .. and the player choose deleb and beat me.. well , is that = demons being best faction ? Sorry nope.. its more of deleb being the best rush hero Since her troops dun move much, most damage is from ballista.
But i've seen sylvan beat deleb in week 1 . Well i'm not good enough for that.But try playing some toh games and you'll see miracles.
I don't consider a deleb expert = demons being good ...
If demons is so powerful try winning with other heroes than deleb
Any noobs can use her well and take on easy fights week 1, she's just too easy to use. If you say demons are good, you should get an equally good start without deleb. Can u fight a horde of hunters on week 1 without deleb??
Its possible to beat here with sylvan if she rushes u. Just bomb her with 3 heroes of sprites when she tries to rush u to kill all her stacks and final fight she's dead . Of course she's easier said than done.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted December 28, 2006 10:14 PM |
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Well, I see you like initiative. Demons are almost as fast as sylvan, mind you Plus the gating, which can eventually double your army. Even withoud deleb, it makes one hell of an army, don't you think?
I can beat the hunters without any loses with other heroes aswell. (hard but possible, yes). There are worse things than hunters, in fact.
The point of playing deleb is that she is NEEDED  Because 1.3 brought so ridiculous prices for the infernal dwellings that you NEED the ultra-fast creeper to actually succed in anything.. You need to get sulfur&mercury mines FAST, and some other resources aswell, plus a TON of gold.. Which kinda limits the city. I think it costs a bit too much. Plus, there are worthless, yet very costly structures like ritual pit, which unfortunately NEED to be built.. just to get the castle. Sic.
1.3 killed very nice strategy of getting nightmares fast and any hero with attack (to get tactics). This way, you could whack the shooters without deleb aswell.. But now nightmares are impossible to get fast due to ridiculous dwelling costs without fast creeping.. which leads, again, to Deleb.
Ah yes, sylvan has extremely hard time against haven.. that is a simple fact and i'm surprised that you state haven<sylvan The marksmen lame thing is easy to perform, quite cheap and it doesn't need much resources, contrary to full-sylvan army..
I think you'll agree with me that sylvan needs almost every creature in the army to become strong. They need a tank, a flyer, a fast killer, a cleanser, a shooter.. Which leads to late weeks on rich maps only. Sylvan lacks "killer strategy" or "killer units" like marksmen. And sure, ossir is fun, yet he's nowhere as strong as dougie, and he can't boost his hunters' numbers. Sadly.
I always found sylvan impossible to play on my favorite map, aka Peninsula. They simply cannot get enough wood there, and they cannot creep well because hunters, sprites and dancers don't make any creeping army at all.. unless you like huge loses.. they can only wait for a miracle, say, iron golems guarding the underground entrance.. but if, say, hunters or cerberi are there.. WHOOPS, options->surrender is the only way >_>
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Fortress_fan
Disgraceful
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posted December 28, 2006 10:27 PM |
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Quote:
6 : Academy - I've given up on them. They're hopeless against any factions. Esp sylvan and necros
Low att/def of hero development is costly for them
The weakest faction has an first level shooter and a hero of mass destruction (Nathir)!? Compared to those crappy Sylvan heroes with only 1-2 half-decent specials (Talanar and perhaps Ossir). And lets compare the racial skills: Academy can improve their creatures on their weak points, which is very useful (give Rakshasas Initiative, Magic Resistance and Speed boosts and you understand what I mean).
Sylvans however have that useless Avenger skill that gives their troops a 40% to inflict double damage on a creature. That would be great if it relay worked because you will never be able to kill two populations of any creature that is a real threat to you with weak Sylvan troops. And the special won't help much against great heroes like Deleb or Dougal, which will easily crush weak woodcutting elves.
Basically: Sylvan sucks just like Perseve did in Heroes IV. I have not got Hammers of fate (seems like a waste of money with that second add-on coming out) so I can't tell if Fortress is even worse.
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sq79
Famous Hero
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posted December 28, 2006 10:35 PM |
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Edited by sq79 at 23:05, 28 Dec 2006.
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Quote:
Well, I see you like initiative. Demons are almost as fast as sylvan, mind you Plus the gating, which can eventually double your army. Even withoud deleb, it makes one hell of an army, don't you think?
I can beat the hunters without any loses with other heroes aswell. (hard but possible, yes). There are worse things than hunters, in fact.
The point of playing deleb is that she is NEEDED Because 1.3 brought so ridiculous prices for the infernal dwellings that you NEED the ultra-fast creeper to actually succed in anything.. You need to get sulfur&mercury mines FAST, and some other resources aswell, plus a TON of gold.. Which kinda limits the city. I think it costs a bit too much. Plus, there are worthless, yet very costly structures like ritual pit, which unfortunately NEED to be built.. just to get the castle. Sic.
1.3 killed very nice strategy of getting nightmares fast and any hero with attack (to get tactics). This way, you could whack the shooters without deleb aswell.. But now nightmares are impossible to get fast due to ridiculous dwelling costs without fast creeping.. which leads, again, to Deleb.
Ah yes, sylvan has extremely hard time against haven.. that is a simple fact and i'm surprised that you state haven<sylvan The marksmen lame thing is easy to perform, quite cheap and it doesn't need much resources, contrary to full-sylvan army..
I think you'll agree with me that sylvan needs almost every creature in the army to become strong. They need a tank, a flyer, a fast killer, a cleanser, a shooter.. Which leads to late weeks on rich maps only. Sylvan lacks "killer strategy" or "killer units" like marksmen. And sure, ossir is fun, yet he's nowhere as strong as dougie, and he can't boost his hunters' numbers. Sadly.
Yes i agree haven/dougal is hard. But not impossible
Hehe.. now we compare full army versus full army sylvan versus demons. Its a tough fight surely and ever since 1.4, I'm beginning to like demons as well. Nightmares and cerebus doesn't waste turns gating though. Because if they do so.. they would probably be dead next turn Imps and horn demons will gate i think. The main concern is if the nightmare can do a aura of fright on the emarald dragons to decide the game. You don't wanna know the damage from f.enemy and double spray it will cause
Ah.. i see peninsula is your f.map
I agree its not too good for sylvan .., its out and out necro map no matter how i see it 5-600 skellie archers in week 2 and do the rush,it will be hard to beat them.
Some nice maps are here I never play ubi maps after i tried these
http://www.toheroes.com/h5maps.html
I hope you join toh community , its lacking players there
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sq79
Famous Hero
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posted December 28, 2006 10:42 PM |
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Edited by sq79 at 05:24, 29 Dec 2006.
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Quote:
Quote:
6 : Academy - I've given up on them. They're hopeless against any factions. Esp sylvan and necros
Low att/def of hero development is costly for them
The weakest faction has an first level shooter and a hero of mass destruction (Nathir)!? Compared to those crappy Sylvan heroes with only 1-2 half-decent specials (Talanar and perhaps Ossir). And lets compare the racial skills: Academy can improve their creatures on their weak points, which is very useful (give Rakshasas Initiative, Magic Resistance and Speed boosts and you understand what I mean).
Sylvans however have that useless Avenger skill that gives their troops a 40% to inflict double damage on a creature. That would be great if it relay worked because you will never be able to kill two populations of any creature that is a real threat to you with weak Sylvan troops. And the special won't help much against great heroes like Deleb or Dougal, which will easily crush weak woodcutting elves.
Basically: Sylvan sucks just like Perseve did in Heroes IV. I have not got Hammers of fate (seems like a waste of money with that second add-on coming out) so I can't tell if Fortress is even worse.
I think you're reffering to rush maps ? Ok ok .. rush maps.. deleb rules, so demons are best.
Or.. war machine race are best? .
Ultimately there is no weakest or strongest faction in a week 1-3 rush map... rather there are strong heroes,
Deleb
Havez
Victorio
or any necro heroes
Sylvan do s h i t damage?
Its 16k damage on first shot, they have double shot.. I wonder how much titans will it take to do this kind of damage. 50,60? and when there is 60 titans, = 30 weeks of growth.. i would have 600 hunters
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 28, 2006 10:57 PM |
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Quote:
Sylvans however have that useless Avenger skill that gives their troops a 40% to inflict double damage on a creature. That would be great if it relay worked because you will never be able to kill two populations of any creature that is a real threat to you with weak Sylvan troops. And the special won't help much against great heroes like Deleb or Dougal, which will easily crush weak woodcutting elves.
40% for double damage is excellent.Add elven luck for (100+125)x2%=450% damage.One such luck roll can decide a game.
In my book hunters and druids built in week 1 give you a good creeping army.Protecting them with stacks of 1 sprites they can kill lots of grim raiders(with hero help of course).And it's not hard to deal with hunters with sprites and wardancers but you have losses.Your hunters remain out of combat for that.Get some destructive magic and vitality or evasion are easy to get with 2-3 chests for xp.
Ossir starts with 10-12 hunters more than enough for creeping.Did you say lots of minotaur guards in day 1?Though against master hunters he is at a worse risk.Gilraen performs quite good too.
Also even if you don't have the neutrals for avenger you'll eventually kill some of your opponent's troops.Easy as pie.Don't you do skirmishes?
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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