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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Secrets of destruction revealed - playing Dungeon faction
Thread: Secrets of destruction revealed - playing Dungeon faction [ This thread is 61 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 (29) 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 ]
Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted December 23, 2007 06:29 PM
Edited by Elvin at 18:30, 23 Dec 2007.

Probably not, it's dungeon and has no native dark magic nor is it a common warlock skill. But I guess people may consider it from now on. When taking orcs I take shatter destructive anyway.
____________
beware a monkey
-ghost

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Ceres
Ceres


Supreme Hero
and sweetness
posted December 23, 2007 06:32 PM

A newbie question:

Did samie didn't really use Destructive coz he know that his oppo had Shatter Destructive?

-or-

Destructive is just no good with that kind of enormous army?

-or-

Probably, for another reason...
____________
And when the stars fall, I
will lie awake. You're my
shooting star.


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Pinkspear
Pinkspear


Known Hero
Crazy like a fool
posted December 23, 2007 06:35 PM

I think both. However keep in mind that the first option can lead to some nice cat-and-mouse games.

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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted December 23, 2007 06:35 PM

A mix of the first two. With all the rage they get destructive does much less damage and shatter destructive further reduces it. You can see if the opponent has shatter destructive so you make your choice about what to cast. Dark is much more effective against might.
____________
beware a monkey
-ghost

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Ceres
Ceres


Supreme Hero
and sweetness
posted December 23, 2007 06:38 PM

Agreed.  Both of you got a point there. So if Dark is effective against Stronghold, then Necropolis got an advantage with them? (A little bit OT, sorry.)

____________
And when the stars fall, I
will lie awake. You're my
shooting star.


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Pinkspear
Pinkspear


Known Hero
Crazy like a fool
posted December 23, 2007 06:45 PM

Hmmm, maybe. If both heroes are at equal level, a good necro hero with sorcery and dark (and preferably summoning) can beat them since they have almost no counter vs. frenzy/PM. However, don't forget that necro's units are kinda weak, so if they get some init/speed booster, it can be a tough match...

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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted December 23, 2007 06:46 PM

I'm not so sure. Shatter dark can ensure no puppet on the cyclopses and frenzy would work only for one round but it still hurts. With a little resistance, skills to reach enemy on first turn and a good ballista the orcs have good chances I'd say. But I have only played the battle on my duel map and that's not balanced.
____________
beware a monkey
-ghost

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Cleave
Cleave


Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
posted December 24, 2007 06:41 AM

Quote:
I'm not so sure. Shatter dark can ensure no puppet on the cyclopses and frenzy would work only for one round but it still hurts. With a little resistance, skills to reach enemy on first turn and a good ballista the orcs have good chances I'd say. But I have only played the battle on my duel map and that's not balanced.


Hence the importance of witch doctors. If the stack is large enough taking them down should be a priority for the Warlock.

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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted December 24, 2007 07:10 AM

On the other hand they can become a magnet for your spell if they fail. I once fired off 2 meteor showers
____________
beware a monkey
-ghost

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Cleave
Cleave


Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
posted December 24, 2007 08:04 AM

That's why to be on the safe side the Barbarian needs as many goblins as he can muster (plus they count for Horde's Anger).
These little masked goblins can be a real pain in the first turns... Still once they are poisonned it's another story.

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kermit
kermit


Known Hero
Soul hunter
posted December 24, 2007 08:17 AM

Orcs are weak against dark, shatter or not. As a necro I atacked a computer orc garrison of at least 480 cyclopses as well as a thousand of every other stronghold troop, the defending lvl 10 hero had all shatter dark skills. I won regardless, with merely 400 archers 100 spectres and 2 stacks of 10 archliches using mainly dark magic. It's true that frenzy works for only a turn and you can't puppet cyclopses, but ... your puppet works on everything else as to cyclopses they can be blinded. If the oponent happens to have a good amount of earth daughters they can also be effectively used to bring down the cylcopses. Shatter dark is better than nothing but it won't buy you the victory against a high level dark magic user. As stronghold I think you'll need to get some good magic resistance and maybe distract to survive the continous flow of dark magic spells.

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Cleave
Cleave


Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
posted December 24, 2007 08:43 AM
Edited by Cleave at 08:45, 24 Dec 2007.

Quote:
Orcs are weak against dark, shatter or not. As a necro I atacked a computer orc garrison of at least 480 cyclopses as well as a thousand of every other stronghold troop, the defending lvl 10 hero had all shatter dark skills. I won regardless, with merely 400 archers 100 spectres and 2 stacks of 10 archliches using mainly dark magic.


It's from the necro campaign, right? Then it doesn't count. The AI can't play the Stronghold (it often makes mistakes with other factions but it's even worse -not to say hilarious- with the Stronghold especially when it keeps waiting depleting its blood rage).

Back on topic. A safe bet for a Warlock would be Dark but since you don't get Dark magic spells in your guild you'd need either to get the tome of dark magic or some way to get high level Dark magic spells. Still, Summoning can be handy as well. Destruction with Warlock's luck, empowered spells and elemental damage boosting artifacts can be useful but depending on the size of the Stronghold army it won't be as effective as dark magic (unless you can really take the cyclops down quickly and that doesn't take Shatter Destruction into account).

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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted December 24, 2007 08:47 AM
Edited by Elvin at 08:48, 24 Dec 2007.

No need for tome, you can still learn spells from your units A certain priestess with whip and arcane intuition comes to mind. But higher level spells might no be easy to get.
____________
beware a monkey
-ghost

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kermit
kermit


Known Hero
Soul hunter
posted December 24, 2007 09:46 AM

as a matter of fact the AI had no choice, the human player would've done hardly better. First turn I puppeted centaurs and placed them near the cyclops so they were unable to shoot. Orc player tried rushing all his units but the frenzied cyclops took care of half of them, then it was left with a puppeted stack and a blinded one, in the end he was reduced to taking swings at my units with his hero... that's all he could do while I slowly killed his cyclops...

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Edwin_Yang
Edwin_Yang


Known Hero
posted December 28, 2007 12:08 AM bonus applied.
Edited by Edwin_Yang at 00:13, 28 Dec 2007.

Hmm...I'v been playing dungeon in TOTE for some time so I think there is something that I could add.

I would like to talk something about play against the factions which are good at dark magic...especially neropolis(academy and haven also).as we can see that the spell curse of the netherworld are boosted in TOTE, 144+12*P damage is absolutely deadly to deogun in the early game,ah,yes there is only 1/3 chance for necromancer to get this spell,but we must take it into account.
   
  first,keep an eye on your tarven, if there is a necromancer in it,just
hire he/her without hesitation.we know that you would get 201DE if you just have a necromancer regardless the faction you started with.it means that about 60 skeleton warriors or 45 zombies a week.so just split some furies(you dont even need fruies if you get Kaspar)  to the necromancer and do some cheep creeping.(like peasents, defenders and so on.....).then you can easy get huge amount of skeleton or zombie which makes you do not need to worry about the curse of the netherworld.

  second,try your best to find a necopolis/infer/academy town.any on of them have creatures immue to curse of the netherworld(notic that obsidian gargoylys dont immun to the curse...you need to get magnetic gloem asap)
 
  third,try to get some high HP units.If you find Kythra in the tarven on first day, you could built the labyrinth in the first week,then upgrade it before the battle.if you attack your enemy in the fourth week , that is to say that you would at least have 9+6*4=33 minotaur taskmaster(yes...40 HP is wonderful),1320 HP is very durable.Vayshan is worthwhile,especially when there is a scouts dewilling.then your can easy get more than 90 stalkers in 4 weeks.your just need to keep them survive as much as possible when do some creepings.(it is btter to loss fruies than stalkers when you face a necromancer who maitain the curser of the netherworld),and needless to say..hydras are badly needed.and I suggest that use blood sisters in the battle against the enemy's hero.21 HP dont helps a lot but still..help.
  at last..remember that never put the 3 highest HP units on the battlefield at the same time.you could put your hydras and some minor units first..and then escape..and then come with the stalkers and minotaurs again..but never put them one time

  fourth..use the armageddon..since necromacers are easily to get defence you need to make sure that they dont get last stand..tome of the destruction is worhthwhile when the magic guild doesnt provid you the armageddon.keep an eye on it...
 
  fifth....ah.....get the blackies..if you can..

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Ceres
Ceres


Supreme Hero
and sweetness
posted December 29, 2007 01:39 AM

Nice suggestion EY! Haven't realized that Necro got strong in TotE.  So it's Curse of the Netherworld, that is a big problem.  Last time I used it, it really doesn't amaze me.  But now seems I'm going to be aware of it.
____________
And when the stars fall, I
will lie awake. You're my
shooting star.


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Lesij
Lesij


Famous Hero
posted December 29, 2007 05:34 AM
Edited by Lesij at 05:37, 29 Dec 2007.

I have watched the battle (thx to Elvin ) and I have seen that baba hero made some mistakes, that's why he lost...
If he didn't- he could win.
1. Warmongers are defenders not attackers. If he used Maulers he would kick dungeons ass
2. If he had Word of The Chief, Chieftans weren't so neccesary- he should use Executioners- Misstress would die then...
3. Goblin Trappers are good vs might armies. In dungeon's case hero is more powerfull. Witch Doctors are neccesity.
4. He should destroy Hive first (with his warmonger). Not attack Hydra.
5. He shouldn't use WarCry when his Cyclops were Puppeted, but Call of Blood on Warmongers/Centaurs for example.
6. If he had lots of Shamans- he should upg. them to Earth Daughters, Slow Hydras and then curse them with hexing attack.

I don't know if he had make more mistakes, cuz when it became obvious- that dungeon wins I closed the replay XP

EDIT: Now there is a moral for all barb lovers (Elvin, Mytical and also humble myself) ALWAYS TAKE SHATTER DARK, cuz even Dungeon can kill you with your own dudes... Thank you

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Azagal
Azagal


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
posted December 29, 2007 05:49 AM

Quote:
I have watched the battle (thx to Elvin ) and I have seen that baba hero made some mistakes, that's why he lost...
If he didn't- he could win.
1. Warmongers are defenders not attackers. If he used Maulers he would kick dungeons ass

xD these guys die before they get to do anything...
Quote:
3. Goblin Trappers are good vs might armies. In dungeon's case hero is more powerfull. Witch Doctors are neccesity.

clearly you haven't tried that one... ever seen a witch doctor fumbling a armageddon/any destruction spell? You get blasted once more...
About the other ones I'm not sure as I didn't watch the replay but those are just plain wrong...
besides
Quote:
ALWAYS TAKE SHATTER DARK, cuz even Dungeon can kill you with your own dudes... Thank you

Nooooway... Dungeon has no source for for Dark spells and only a 2% chance to start with it... unless your oponent picks Lethos or Yrbeth you have no reason to take shatter dark.
____________
"The superior man is modest in
his speech but exceeds in his
actions." Confucius

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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted December 29, 2007 05:51 AM

That would be something to consider in a large map like Master of Disguise, there is even an arcane library and utopia. Not to mention the tome of dark And seriously, dungeon can buy a dark tome from artifact merchants so you can never know.
____________
beware a monkey
-ghost

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samiekl
samiekl


Supreme Hero
posted December 29, 2007 06:00 AM

Lesij dude, do you really think i cast spells randomly not based on what the opponent has? If he used the other upgrades he would have made my win easier.

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