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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Secrets of destruction revealed - playing Dungeon faction
Thread: Secrets of destruction revealed - playing Dungeon faction This thread is 61 pages long: 1 10 ... 18 19 20 21 22 ... 30 40 50 60 61 · «PREV / NEXT»
samiekl
samiekl


Supreme Hero
posted November 16, 2007 09:53 PM

i am speaking about tote here

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sdfx
sdfx


Famous Hero
posted November 16, 2007 10:26 PM

I tested golem too again, even unequiped all arties and still AOE does NO damage to golems AND surrounding creatures. Hmmm, I used meteors as a testing AOE spell. Cast it and nothing. No creature, just because of golems, received any damage.

How dungeon has better creeping than academy? How do you want to level up other warlocks to creep? I don't see how a low level warlock with his puny knowledge and expensive empowered spells can creep easily. Wizards can do it relatively easily because they have enough knowledge and good spellpower to cast spells(summoning and dark/destructive). They ultimately will build their castle(s) better and faster than any other faction - plain and simple. Little stalkers don't add mana to warlocks, sory.. Maybe on some weired, littered with mana wells maps they would match them but I doubt it.

Of course, mini-arties are a problem and they will be a problem much sooner than week 5 if many wizards actually creep and get this shiny perk called resoursefulness. Also, I didn't say that golems were more important than mini-arties.. or anything like that. I just said they are too much. I mean that not only in the context of final battle but also in the context of their creeping potential + destructive magic wizard in general. I didn't mentioned artificer because striking first vs no defense(artificer initiative) and reducing damage from empowered destructive(artificer protection) is kind of obvious. And what does it mean defense solves nothing? It can make less dying and ultimately give 1 cast more.

And yes, I would play some good players but I don't really enjoy playing fixed maps.

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samiekl
samiekl


Supreme Hero
posted November 16, 2007 10:31 PM

ok, whatever, you're right....

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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted November 16, 2007 11:32 PM

Hehe its good to see so high activity in my topic

Unfortunately i guess i wont post any more strategies since i retired from homm. Started playing poker

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted November 16, 2007 11:54 PM

Traitor! Good luck with poker then
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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted November 16, 2007 11:58 PM

Its no game of luck, poker

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yasmiel
yasmiel


Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
posted November 17, 2007 12:19 AM

I don't play magic towns often so i might be wrong but shouldn't dungeon racial ignore the effects of the resistance mini arties?

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted November 17, 2007 12:25 AM

I think it reduces their effect yes.
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Edwin_Yang
Edwin_Yang


Known Hero
posted November 17, 2007 08:05 AM

Quote:
I think it reduces their effect


Indeed,if you cast destructive spell on steel golems with expert inresistible magic,they would recieve 75%*50%+25%=62.5% damage.
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Azagal
Azagal


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
posted November 17, 2007 08:27 AM
Edited by Azagal at 08:33, 17 Nov 2007.

Quote:
Hehe its good to see so high activity in my topic

Unfortunately i guess i wont post any more strategies since i retired from homm. Started playing poker

Well then I hope your allready were in here. They're trying to get a HC poker tournament started.

Anyway... I mean the motivation to play Dungeon is the fact that you're basically blowing your oponent up with destructive right?? And you have elite units that come in low numbers... And the Warlocks used to be the Nr.1 spell dmg dealer in this game... but ehm TotE? Warlock: empowered spells+warlocks luck = 3times normal spelldamage Wizard however: Mark of the Wizard + warlocks luck = 4times normal spelldamage... I mean COME ON!! Why make the strongest faction even stronger?!?
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted November 17, 2007 10:17 AM
Edited by Doomforge at 10:17, 17 Nov 2007.

well it takes some time to prepare motw. Warlock can strike faster.. and the sooner you strike, the better for you.

Azagal, don't forget the elemental gargs, they act as empowered spells

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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted November 17, 2007 10:30 AM

Quote:
Well then I hope your allready were in here. They're trying to get a HC poker tournament started.


I havent seen that, of course im interested

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Edwin_Yang
Edwin_Yang


Known Hero
posted November 17, 2007 11:40 AM
Edited by Edwin_Yang at 12:05, 17 Nov 2007.

Quote:
well it takes some time to prepare motw. Warlock can strike faster.. and the sooner you strike, the better for you.

Azagal, don't forget the elemental gargs, they act as empowered spells


but I think the time spend for preparing motw is not the biggest problem,
while the wizard have no IR so that their destruction magic can be easily resisted is the key.



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ismail222
ismail222


Known Hero
The Cataclysm
posted November 17, 2007 11:51 AM
Edited by ismail222 at 11:53, 17 Nov 2007.

Quote:


Anyway... I mean the motivation to play Dungeon is the fact that you're basically blowing your oponent up with destructive right?? And you have elite units that come in low numbers... And the Warlocks used to be the Nr.1 spell dmg dealer in this game... but ehm TotE? Warlock: empowered spells+warlocks luck = 3times normal spelldamage Wizard however: Mark of the Wizard + warlocks luck = 4times normal spelldamage... I mean COME ON!! Why make the strongest faction even stronger?!?


i think ur forgetting the elments which can be twice as much as ur 3 times dmg spell ^.^

and academy's spellpower is nothing compared to dungeon's spell power ^.^
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Azagal
Azagal


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
posted November 17, 2007 01:22 PM
Edited by Azagal at 13:24, 17 Nov 2007.

Okook slow down... I don't think that the resistability of the Academy spells is that big an issue... you usually don't encounter Heroes with more than say 15%-10% magic resistance which is not THAT big a deal... and now about the spellpower issue: warlocks spellpower may be higher but it will not be so high that it will compensate for 1time or even 2times(as the gargs indeed need to be accounted for as Doomforge added) more dmg the Wizards can do ontop of the 3times normal spelldamage the Warlock does.
In case you don't belive me:
Warlock 30 SP Implosion: 40*(40*30) = 1240 normal spelldamage
                                     1240*1,5  = 1860 empowered Spell
                                         1860*2 = 3720 with Luck

Wizard arround 22~26 Implosion: 40*(40*22/26) = 920~1080
Now I'm not sure if the Mark of the Wizard will take the Gargoyles into account lets say it does: 920/1080*1,5 = 1380~1620
Now plus Mark of The Wizard: 1380/1620*2 = 2760~3240
With Warlocks Luck:          2760/3240*2 = 5520~6480

In case it Mark of the Wizard doesn't take the Gargoyles into account the spell dmg would be: 920/1080*2 = 1840~2160
                              1840/2160*2 = 3680~4320 (allmost Warlock dmg with 8 SP less)
                            3680/4320*1,5 = 5520~6480
So if I didn't think wrong or missunderstod how Mark Of The Wizard works I guess this shows how Warlocks not are the Nr.1 Spelldamage dealers anymore.
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okrane
okrane


Famous Hero
posted November 17, 2007 01:34 PM

You haven't taken into account elemental chains, which can do sick damage with the Runeforce set (not that hard to get) and the Rage of the Elements (also not that hard to get, plus all the skills required are pretty good)

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samiekl
samiekl


Supreme Hero
posted November 17, 2007 01:35 PM

ok, lets take 2 maps. first battle for honour. how many things can accomplish academy by week 3? even with multiple heroes creeping? dungeon can break in week 2 and week 3 first attack (i did it and im not a great player).
second hourglass. academy is very strong there BUT... no logistics means that is difficult for them to break in week 4. dungeon can have 2 utopias, 1 external artifact merchant, 3 artifact merchants from towns. by that time, you can actually get almost 50 spellpower. i'm not saying that dungeon is the winner, just that it has its fair chance.

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exekutor
exekutor


Adventuring Hero
posted November 17, 2007 01:56 PM

Quote:
You haven't taken into account elemental chains, which can do sick damage with the Runeforce set (not that hard to get) and the Rage of the Elements (also not that hard to get, plus all the skills required are pretty good)


Runeforce set doubles elemental vision, that means 200% elemental damage, right? Rage of the Elements doubles elemental damage too, does that mean 400% elemental damage, or only 300%? Does it double the damage(*2) or only had +100% of damage?

An example, 100 ele-dmg, with runeforce 200, now what happens with rage? 300 or 400 dmg?

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Legendary_Hero
Legendary_Hero


Known Hero
Stronghold Warchief
posted November 17, 2007 02:31 PM

I think it becomes 300%(doubles the initial chains)or maybe not but if it becomes 400% it will be very wild and imbalanced
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kermit
kermit


Known Hero
Soul hunter
posted November 17, 2007 04:02 PM

Lol  wish people would stop calling some factions strengths imbalances. In any case elemental damage is by no means huge, it only adds base 30% damage if the target happens to have the right element. Even if you had rage of the elements it would only be 60% and rune force set making it 120% is NOTHING compared to nature's luck or even artificer...

The advantage of the warlock is easier access to swift mind than the wizard. The warlock would have the time to cast 2 empowered spells while the wizard would only cast 1 if he prepared motw.

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