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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Secrets of destruction revealed - playing Dungeon faction
Thread: Secrets of destruction revealed - playing Dungeon faction This thread is 61 pages long: 1 ... 8 9 10 11 12 ... 20 30 40 50 60 61 · «PREV / NEXT»
kingdon1975
kingdon1975


Adventuring Hero
I really am the Godfather
posted April 22, 2007 05:34 PM

Quote:
Quote:
   
The trick which i did few times is start developing secondary hero. When he gets an adequate lvl you give him some artifacts from main hero. Then your hero goes to fight opponents main hero. You probably dont want to take all your stacks with you for this fight. Than you armageddon everything on the battlefield. You both lose your heroes but you are left with your secondary hero which is already quite a fighter and he has some good artifacts and you have additional stack (which you didnt take to final fight with your opponent). You just must be sure that when you Armageddon both heroes WILL die, you dont want to kill yourself only , do you?



How about take main hero with army of single stacks and drop empowered armageddon touching wood that warlocks luck will kick in
doing massive suicidal damage and then hammer the residue with your adequate lvl hero's army.Would that work?

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted April 22, 2007 05:57 PM

nope

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kingdon1975
kingdon1975


Adventuring Hero
I really am the Godfather
posted April 22, 2007 05:59 PM

Why?

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sdfx
sdfx


Famous Hero
posted April 22, 2007 07:05 PM

Stupid phoenix feather cape.
____________

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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 22, 2007 08:11 PM
Edited by feluniozbunio at 20:55, 22 Apr 2007.

I think i can do another round:

This time few words about artifacts. The thing i like about Dungeon is that they have cool building: artifact merchant. You can often find there very useful items. I want to give few words of comment on them.

I have already said about +50% arties. They are priority if you haven't found any on the map. Beside them useful ones are:

Staff of netherworlds - this item is plain broken. If you see it, take it. No need to comment.

Pendant of mastery.  When you play vs good opponent you can expect some resistances. This item ensures that they wont do much. Excellent especially against Academy. This item is another must on my list against Academy or when i expect resistances. Great item.

Cloak of deaths shadow and cursing rings. Very good against heaven/sylvan. If you can get this and -2 to luck/morale rings its wicked sick combo.

Skull of Markal. Its very powerful artifact, however very expensive.
Downfall of this item, apart from price, is that it uses a slot for +luck artifacts, which you need to have lucky spells rolls more often. I usually like +2 luck artifact better.

Ring of speed. It's not as good as for other castles. It can give your raiders and dragons first strike. It may be a gamebreaking thing. However, you still may be unlucky and act second and initiative of your creatures later in combat isn't too important. Its very expensive thing but, as i said it may be a game breaker. (it was never for me so i kind of disliked it when playing dungeon)

+6 SP Robe. Its very good. But often you may get free +2/+3 artifact for that slot. If you do have the latter there is no need to buy the robe, too expensive.


Magic resistance artifacts are very good against Academy. Make sure you have them.

+2 spellpower minor artifacts. They are good choice if you don't have anything else in that slot.

+def major shields are very good artifacts. If you don't have one , you should buy it. Relict ones may be too expensive for what they give.

+2/+1 luck artifacts . Good , cheap, what do you need more?

Now few words on some other artifacts

Tome of Destruction magic. This item sucks. You dont recieve Empowered version of additional spells. Piece of crap.

Sar issus ring. Crap, You don't need that expensive mana booster.

2 for 1 Neckless. Crap. Same reason as above.

Major + spellpower artifacts are usually not worth their price.


WARNING
Before buying anything MAKE SURE you don't have anything better similar in you backpack . Take a very close look on the map, there may be something laying , waiting for you to get it. Don't buy unnecessary artifacts. I often find myself in situation where i bought an artifact just to discover couple days later that i have something better or exactly the same thing laying somewhere on the groud.

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Destro23
Destro23


Promising
Famous Hero
Keeper of GrongGrong
posted April 22, 2007 08:19 PM

haha in regards to searching your map...

I played a game on Battlezone recently as inferno, and we saved.  About 4 days later the save was loaded and we continued.  I visited the artifact merchant and purchased a ring of celerity and a cursed ring.  SWEET!

Then I was panning around the map, and right beside my town is this group of paladins... lots it says... hmmm look they have 2 artifacts behind them, wonder what those are...

OMFG ring of celerity and cursed ring... WTF NOOO bye bye gold.

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ChaosDragon
ChaosDragon


Famous Hero
posted April 23, 2007 02:34 PM

@Destro23: Btw, what about if you get 2 ring of broken will? combined with nightmare's fright aura, it's -7 morale.

Back to topic, i found academy units surprisingly tough and fast with very high level mini arties, this is damn, but, for dungeon it seems okay since destructive can do very good work vs them, but for other towns, they easily overpower them, i'm trying to gather any solution.

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Istari
Istari


Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
posted April 23, 2007 10:14 PM

I'm not typically a dungeon player, so I didn't read this post as it was developing.  I have recently gained some curiosity toward the dungeon though and spent some time reading through this post.  However I didn't see an answer on how the Warlock broke so early in BFH.  I know how to defeat those guards with summoning magic, but most warlocks donít take summoning magic.  I know the hero was leveled up as fast as possible (exp from chests) but what battle strategy was used.  Did 5 stacks of 1 assassin + destructive magic really kill all those Archdevil and Titan guards?  
____________
Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong.

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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 23, 2007 10:30 PM
Edited by feluniozbunio at 22:52, 23 Apr 2007.

Basically, as a warlock, you kill every thing with your spells and assassins as a meat shield(except those things you kill with furies only). There is no difference when you fight with titans/devils/dragons or whatever else. You just take 2 heroes. Your main with 7 stacks of 1 assassin. Another hero has the rest of your army. You kill guardians with implosion/fireball/meteor shower or whatever you got best in your spellbook before they kill your assassins. Of course you need to have hero capable of doing this. I killed titans on BFH on week 4 with no problem - my losses were 1 or 2 assassins dead , don't remember exactly.
What is more, in that game, it was my second hero who did this (i started lvling on week 2 when i realized that my main hero got very unlucky with stats- too high attack too low spellpower). At that time i had 2 lvl 18 heroes.

Killing devils is easy, Titans require more powerful hero. If your hero isn't powerful enough you may use hit&run strategy too It wors even better than with human opponent

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted April 23, 2007 10:50 PM

I second that.. that's really a great way of creeping, that's almost as effective as perfect MMR, and MUCH more reliable than MMR (you don't need to fear that you'll get crappy spells like wizards do since all of them are ok for creeping)

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pomo
pomo


Famous Hero
The lone peasant
posted April 24, 2007 03:59 AM

I must say if you can get them ghosts/spectres are absolute gold for creeping as a warlock, because you can delay for twice as long. I was playing a hotseat game on BattleZone recently and I killed 40 black dragons, 20 magmas and 300 assassins for the loss of about 15 ghosts in week 3 (Ghosts were joiners).

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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 24, 2007 09:40 AM
Edited by feluniozbunio at 23:13, 24 Apr 2007.

Yeah, i did that too once they saved me in battle against 30+ magmas.

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sdfx
sdfx


Famous Hero
posted April 24, 2007 09:53 AM

Well, ghosts are the best fodders in the game for sure. About warlock creeping. It's relatively easy to beat archdevils with meteor shower and furies because you can use 1 fodder to "attract" the upper/bottom devil stack so that all 4 stacks are hit with meteors. So, basically it matters a lot whether devils are split into:
3 stacks: damage = (20+20+20) * SP * 1.5 * .. or
4 stacks: damage = (20+20+20+20) * SP * 1.5 * ..
".." means +50% artefacts and warlock's luck chance

Without meteors it's way harder, maybe fireball could be used but it's not that easy to attract 3 or 4 stacks into a 3x3 area. Still with master of fire and furies at your side it maybe really good.

Then we have, circle of winter and implosion. They can be used of course, but they are just generally inferior for creeping. Circle of winter may be attractive for its freezing effect and implosion for its power*40 but overall they are just average.

Chain lightning is not even worth mentioning. 1 little miscalculation and and all fodders are.. shocked.
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pomo
pomo


Famous Hero
The lone peasant
posted April 24, 2007 10:25 AM

Yeah the other thing about creeping archdevils is you don't want to OHK single stacks with implo, because then you'll get pit fiends, which have fireball, and that is going to mess up your day really badly when you're trying tricks like these. So yeah, meteor shower is the best in that situation.

I think it's also really important to know how to manipulate how many stacks the creeps make, by taking more or less army with you, depending on the spells that you have.

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sdfx
sdfx


Famous Hero
posted April 24, 2007 11:04 AM
Edited by sdfx at 11:04, 24 Apr 2007.

Yeah, but it's still random because even if you did this power rating thing correcty then the 2nd part will apply:
"Then, there is a chance that this basic number of stacks is changed:
30% chance to be increased by 1,
30% chance to be decreased by 1,
40% chance to stay the same."
So there is still a 30% chance of facing 3 stacks.

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Sanyu
Sanyu


Known Hero
posted April 24, 2007 11:13 AM

Quote:
@Destro23: Btw, what about if you get 2 ring of broken will? combined with nightmare's fright aura, it's -7 morale.

Back to topic, i found academy units surprisingly tough and fast with very high level mini arties, this is damn, but, for dungeon it seems okay since destructive can do very good work vs them, but for other towns, they easily overpower them, i'm trying to gather any solution.


What about getting Cloak of death shadow? Then you're have -9 morale lol.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted April 24, 2007 12:14 PM

It's capped at -5

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betruger
betruger


Known Hero
empowered mind
posted April 24, 2007 03:12 PM

Quote:
It's capped at -5


Not really capped at -5, because it seems that positive(+) morale boosters are taken into consideration first, and only after their effects are applied, negative(-) morale artifacts come into play.

So in fact, if your opponent has +5 morale, and you have -9 to opponent's morale, he will end up having morale of -4.

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ZombieLord
ZombieLord


Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
posted April 24, 2007 03:17 PM

Quote:
Not really capped at -5, because it seems that positive(+) morale boosters are taken into consideration first, and only after their effects are applied, negative(-) morale artifacts come into play.

So in fact, if your opponent has +5 morale, and you have -9 to opponent's morale, he will end up having morale of -4.

That's true. What annoys me is that the positive cap is applied BEFORE the negative penalties. That means even if you have 7 morale and the enemy decreases it by -1, you'll end up with 4 morale instead of 5 as it should be

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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 24, 2007 11:14 PM
Edited by feluniozbunio at 23:47, 24 Apr 2007.

Recent discussion made me to write few comments about dungeon lineup.

I will rate dungeon creatures in 3 categories.


Good ones: Blackies and lizards

Blackies and lizards : these are true offensive creatures and they perfectly fit in dungeon philosophy.
They are fast, mobile , deadly. No drawbacks, good abilities. Beside pure offensive powers have useful tactical abilities.
Dragons immunity is pure gold when you fight with wizards and Necros.


Useful ones: Hydras , Witches , Furies
These units are unique. They have their pros and cons.

Hydras are excellent tanks (which is very important task in warlock army)
They may be used in creeping. They are good hit& runners. With single stack like this you are not afraid that your enemy will wipe you out fast and you will not spend much money while surrendering.
In regular battle however they don't do much. They are slow and deal pitiful damage. In practice they are just massive hitpoint stack with average defense that waits for somebody to engage them


Furies. Pure gold when it comes to creeping. Die instantly durning any encounter with human opponent. The overall value of this unit isn't great i would say. Having that fragile and low hit point stack is often like having no stack at all. They even don't deal much damage to human opponent armies. Their high initiative and high speed is a nice thing because they may be used to do some tactical moves and you have 100% you will be able to escape when you are cought while creeping.

Witches. This is purely utility unit. She has good spells and since you always end up without some units, you have slots to split them. Useful in hit&run strategies because of their slow spell.
Drawback of this creature is that its not offensive one. It doesn't pose a physical threat to the enemy.


Crappy ones: Assassins Minotaurs

Assasins : Basically, you need creatures to sacrifice when creeping. Since they are lvl 1 , they should be the ones you sacrifice. Its just that they are not even good as a meatsheld(lol) . Thus their low growth i often run out of them while creeping.When there is a time to fight with my opponent i always have too few them even to take with me-its better to split witches in their place. Their high initiative is handy at times.

Minotaurs: These guys are terrible. They are poor attackers, poor tanks, they are slow. Totally opposite to lizards and dragons. Only good thing they do have is double attack. Unfortunately it doesn't do them any good since they have terrible stats. Pathetic!


In conclusion This lineup is quite good if it comes to hit and runs because of furies hydras and witches.
Its very poor in standard fight because it has only 2 stacks that can actually do some serious damage- lizards and dragons.
Two almost useless tiers make your army very weak in comparison with other castles. What is more, on many maps there are additional dwellings for tiers 1-3. Not having a good unit for the final fight in lvls 1-3 mean that you are in much disadvantage on that maps.


Actually i think that Nival should switch Minos and furies with tiers. That would be more more reasonable since furies are much better than minos..lol Increasing their survivability would make might dungeon very cool to play.

Quote:
How often do you get dragons?  Usually my games finish after I have maybe one or two weeks worth.


It depends on map. On some i dont get them on some i do.

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