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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Secrets of destruction revealed - playing Dungeon faction
Thread: Secrets of destruction revealed - playing Dungeon faction [ This thread is 61 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 (30) 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 ]
Ceres
Ceres


Supreme Hero
and sweetness
posted December 29, 2007 06:43 AM

Samie's way is really awesome, but I think the Orc lovers will find a way.  And I want to see it too!
____________
And when the stars fall, I
will lie awake. You're my
shooting star.


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Lesij
Lesij


Famous Hero
Paladin of the Taiga
posted December 29, 2007 06:51 AM
Edited by Lesij at 06:52, 29 Dec 2007.

Don't think so...
Mauler has better initiative and Chieftan didn't even kill one cyclops, so cleave wouldn't work...
Sky Daughters were just a waste- they are less durable than Earth and they didn't even sacrifiece single goblin, cuz your enemy MOVED 'em. If he didn't move gobos and scrifiece one of them- he could cast chain lighting...
Maybe you would win, but you would have to try harder, IMHO.

@Azagal- Warmongers don't die so fast, and I told you maulers are faster.  

About Witch Doctors- maybe they get blasted but tell me what happens to trappers? They didn't manage to kill a single stack ( they almost killed minotaurs but look at theri numbers!!!). What's more, Warlock usually has low mana and Goblin sometimes do not block spells at all but make them cost a lot more. Witch Doctors could have suck all the mana from Sinitar and then what? melee fight

I thin Elvin told everything...
Ah, he forgot about th one frase: sh*t happens, and warlock could have luck always and get DM.

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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted December 29, 2007 06:55 AM

Maybe most of what I know but I'm not an expert in either faction yet. Samiekl's dungeon skill is superior.
____________
I gotta say I'm starting to feel
a bit elitist now that the qp
starts to sink into my
subconscius.
- Veco

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Ceres
Ceres


Supreme Hero
and sweetness
posted December 29, 2007 07:03 AM

Wow... I believe now.
____________
And when the stars fall, I
will lie awake. You're my
shooting star.


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Cleave
Cleave


Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
posted December 29, 2007 07:12 AM

Quote:
Quote:
3. Goblin Trappers are good vs might armies. In dungeon's case hero is more powerfull. Witch Doctors are neccesity.

clearly you haven't tried that one... ever seen a witch doctor fumbling a armageddon/any destruction spell? You get blasted once more...


For a level 26 hero casting up to level 5 spells, 31x25=775 goblins are needed. Add 250 goblins to make sure that the spell won't backfire.
Total 1025 goblins to be absolutely sure that either it will fail, be less effective (spellpower halved) or more expensive (mana cost doubled).

In that case all a Barbarian has to do is do the math and find out whether or not defile magic can be used without taking too much risk.

You may think that 1025 goblin witch doctors is REALLY a lot (should add a few hundreds to be even more comfortable) but that is where their true usefulness reside. They can seriously mess with a spellcaster's abilities.

What use is a Warlock who can't cast spells?

My conclusion is that a good Barbarian player will upgrade, recruit and save as many goblins as possible for the final fight.

Two cases can occur with a large stack of witch doctors. Either they get to use defile magic before the warlock plays or the Warlock gets the opportunity to cast a spell on them and seriously reduce their effectiveness. In the first case the Warlock has to take them down if spells are to be cast and that means attacking this stack instead of other (more powerful) stacks. In the second case if goblins are somehow disabled, the Barbarian buys some time since the Warlock had to cast on the goblins instead of targeting the cyclops, the executioners or the cyclops.

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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted December 29, 2007 07:24 AM

That still does not mean he will stop the warlock in his tracks, just decrease the spell's effectiveness or have him waste double mana. Yes that can be seriously annoying BUT by the time you get such a number of goblins the warlock will have the chance to get a lot of knowledge and he'll also play before them most of the time. Defend us all can give you a good number of goblins if you are to rush though
____________
I gotta say I'm starting to feel
a bit elitist now that the qp
starts to sink into my
subconscius.
- Veco

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Cleave
Cleave


Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
posted December 29, 2007 09:35 AM
Edited by Cleave at 09:37, 29 Dec 2007.

Quote:
That still does not mean he will stop the warlock in his tracks, just decrease the spell's effectiveness or have him waste double mana. Yes that can be seriously annoying BUT by the time you get such a number of goblins the warlock will have the chance to get a lot of knowledge and he'll also play before them most of the time. Defend us all can give you a good number of goblins if you are to rush though


I've just watched the replay. The Barbarian (great might build with Haggash) had something like 890 goblin trappers, still with witch doctors it could have been harder for the Warlock.

In fact once the cyclops were puppetted the game was over as there was no way for the Barbarian to regain control of the stack and it was very doubtful that the Barbarian army could take away the 50 hydras (with arcane armour to make things worse) before getting butchered by the cyclops.

Defile Magic can make a spell FAIL (at least 10% increased depending on the number of goblins, not enough goblins in that case to negate all spellcasting or backfiring).

Nevertheless given Sinitar's spellpower and knowledge the other options weren't that annoying... Especially if he chose to ignore the goblins and focus on the other stacks.

Still 10% is better than 0%. Plus summoning a Phoenix for 70 mana points hurts (not that much when you have 300 mana points but still).

I wonder how Kragh would have fared. It would have taken quite a while for the Warlock to destroy the cyclops stack even puppeted. A level 29 Kragh could have damaged the hydras with his attacks. It's unlikely that it would have been enough but it would have been harder (sort of).

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Lesij
Lesij


Famous Hero
Paladin of the Taiga
posted December 29, 2007 09:53 AM

The build wasn't so great, cuz Haggash didn't have Luck Of Barabarian.
Notice that cyclops only has somewhat 2-3 lucky hits and ballista has one as I remeber...
So, if Haggash had LOB her cyclops could have resisted PM...

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Edwin_Yang
Edwin_Yang


Known Hero
posted December 29, 2007 10:00 AM

luck of the barbarian only reduce the damage you take from the spell, not provide you a chance to resist a magic,,

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samiekl
samiekl


Supreme Hero
posted December 29, 2007 10:17 AM

Ok guys, i just wanted to show you how different races can be handled by warlock, but seems that you already know everything and you dont need replays.

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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted December 29, 2007 10:44 AM

@samiekl
I can see your point and why you would be annoyed but I'd rather you still posted some replays.
____________
I gotta say I'm starting to feel
a bit elitist now that the qp
starts to sink into my
subconscius.
- Veco

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Lesij
Lesij


Famous Hero
Paladin of the Taiga
posted December 29, 2007 10:44 AM
Edited by Lesij at 10:47, 29 Dec 2007.

Quote:
luck of the barbarian only reduce the damage you take from the spell, not provide you a chance to resist a magic,,

Is MAGIC PROOF only a reducer? Then they have written it wrong, cuz proof means you are untouchable by any issue which the proof is about...
From dictionary: To protect somethingfrom being affected by something.

It isn't DESTRUCTIVE MAGIC proof, but MAGIC proof...

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Edwin_Yang
Edwin_Yang


Known Hero
posted December 29, 2007 10:48 AM

yes...magic proof is only a reducer...and so it is the LOB..

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Ceres
Ceres


Supreme Hero
and sweetness
posted December 29, 2007 10:50 AM

I love more Dungeon replays too, samie.
____________
And when the stars fall, I
will lie awake. You're my
shooting star.


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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted December 29, 2007 10:51 AM
Edited by Elvin at 10:51, 29 Dec 2007.

@Lesij
And it does protect just not in the way you thought. In any case that is irrelevant, the description is crystal clear about what it does.
____________
I gotta say I'm starting to feel
a bit elitist now that the qp
starts to sink into my
subconscius.
- Veco

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Doomforge
Doomforge

Hero of Order
Mayhem Elemental
posted December 29, 2007 10:52 AM

Quote:
It isn't DESTRUCTIVE MAGIC proof, but MAGIC proof...


that's because other schools have offensive spells too, like curse of the netherworld.

Magic proof = damage reduction
Magic resistance = chance to ignore the spell.

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Lesij
Lesij


Famous Hero
Paladin of the Taiga
posted December 29, 2007 01:00 PM

It is not worthy to take then when you fight necros O_O

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Jukeboxhero
Jukeboxhero


Adventuring Hero
posted December 31, 2007 08:44 PM

I've just started learning how to creep with Dungeon, but the most recent game I played, I seem to be doing my slowest creeping ever!!

Here's the basics.
Map: Day of Collosus
Hero: Yrwanna

Basically, I built Maiden building, Uprgraded scouts, Upgraded maidens, Mage guild lvl 1, Citadel and Hissing Cavern for the first week. I also made the mistakes of taking on Sprites guarding the Ore mine on the 1st day, which I think is what actually set me back the most (I Lost 3 maidens, probably 6 scouts). Later I didn't lose much (except 4 scouts vs White bear riders) but I also mostly crept easy stacks like skeletons and zombies. Unforuntately, that resulted in my hero being only lvl 3 by the end of week 1, while my opponent is level 13.

I'm just wondering what I should've done differentely, and if I still have a chance of catchin up, or should I just call it a game (and report loss to TOH) and try again.

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Edwin_Yang
Edwin_Yang


Known Hero
posted December 31, 2007 10:10 PM
Edited by Edwin_Yang at 22:17, 31 Dec 2007.

en..From my experience..I think you'd better keep away from spirits/shooters before you get stalkers and some destructive magic,if you are in badly need wood and ore..you can use the third hero in the tarven to help you. if you use Yrwanna,you could keep an eye on such as zombie/squire/minotaur/golem etc. that low initiative and speed creatures, they are just the free exprience.The try to get Destructive magic as soon as poaaible,the you can creep some shooters with the stalkers,dont put the fruies on the battle fied.the growth of the dungeon
is very low which makes you can not afford too much losses.but IMO..dungeon in one of the easiest factions in creeping.

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Jukeboxhero
Jukeboxhero


Adventuring Hero
posted December 31, 2007 10:31 PM

Quote:
en..From my experience..I think you'd better keep away from spirits/shooters before you get stalkers and some destructive magic,if you are in badly need wood and ore..you can use the third hero in the tarven to help you. if you use Yrwanna,you could keep an eye on such as zombie/squire/minotaur/golem etc. that low initiative and speed creatures, they are just the free exprience.The try to get Destructive magic as soon as poaaible,the you can creep some shooters with the stalkers,dont put the fruies on the battle fied.the growth of the dungeon
is very low which makes you can not afford too much losses.but IMO..dungeon in one of the easiest factions in creeping.



Yeah, that's pretty much what I've heard. Just curious though...when you say spirits, do you mean ghosts and their upgrades? OR casters?

Anyways, I've got Stalkers now, along with level 1 mage guild spells (Eldritch arrow, Sorrow, Fists) so maybe I can creep some weaker shooter stacks.
So basically the strategy comes down to this.

1. Creep easy low levels with Scouts/Maidens.
2. Upgrade to Furies and Creep Slow walkers with Furies
3. Upgrade spells/Stalkers and Creep tougher walkers as well as shooters/casters/other tough creatures.

Btw, does anyone have a general suggestion for a first week town build?

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