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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: The Holocaust and WWII
Thread: The Holocaust and WWII This thread is 7 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT»
Colonel_here
Colonel_here


Adventuring Hero
Descendant of Ghengis Khan
posted April 22, 2007 04:12 PM

Quote:
Quote:
We should not blame Hitler for WWII.


I don't like how that sounds.
I know what you mean and I kinda agree with you, but that just doesn't sound right.
"We should not blame only Hitler for WWII." - to that I agree.

Yeah I should have phrased that way.
As for Hitler he did not have majority in Parliament even when his black shirts were beating up opposition on the streets and watching every voter drop their ballots. There were intellectuals that said this guy is nuts. However after Munich Agreement that gave a chunk of Czechoslovakia  to Germany many people tarted to support Hitler because he was doing what he said he will do (increase size of Germany) and the western powers were agreeing with him.

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"The job of saving the lives of those who are sinking is the task of those who are sinking" - Ostap Bender
"Only a fool fights a battle he knows he can not win" - Ghengiz Khan

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Geny
Geny


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted April 22, 2007 04:15 PM

There are countries with deep attachment to religion, yes. And I don't have any problems with them, because they respect my right live where I'm living.
However, there are countries that use their attachment to religion to deny its own citizens of their basics rights. And that cannot be allowed.
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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted April 22, 2007 04:17 PM

Quote:
And terrorists bother u.But it has nothing to do with the close relationship with religion.
Sorry, but this comment made me laugh. Name me 5 out of the last 20 wars all over the world which were NOT related to religion in any way?
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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted April 22, 2007 04:21 PM

Quote:
Name me 5 out of the last 20 wars all over the world which were NOT related to religion in any way?
Yeah, like Video games (perfect excuse) for children's violent behaviour.

All I'm saying is that some of them might not have been related to religion, but people used it as an excuse.

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted April 22, 2007 04:35 PM
Edited by angelito at 16:36, 22 Apr 2007.

Quote:
Fisrtly your comparison Iraqis and Saddam with German and Hitler is wrong and pointless.
Because of what? I was refering to YOUR statement (Look how the iraquis feel now...). And this can for sure be compared with the situation in germany after end of war 2. Only because you recognize you are wrong, doesn't mean the opinions of others are pointless.


Quote:
..Give them some years?For sure i am not the one he can or can't do that.From Usa government u must "ask" to give them some years.But they won't.They will be remaining there,with forces or not,will be there.
How you know? You talk to Bush every now and then?
Quote:
U said that this country should split religion from politics.Yeah that's my opinion too.But it's not my problem if the won't do it.They never bother me.They never bother u.
But this exactly IS the problem the last 200 years in the world. Religion has NOTHING to do with politics. Extremely religious people tend to blame other people who do NOT believe (in god, or in THEIR god). And this is just wrong. Every person on this planet has the right to believe or to NOT believe. As long as the islamic culture (sure not all of them, but it is the religion who has the most problem with so called "non-believers") can't accept that, there will always exist extremists who think they have the right to kill those non-believers.

Quote:
How can u be so cynical?How can u say that there's no bad way to get rid of all those "military leaders" and "might focused only".So innocents people died i guess for u that wasn't so bad.
Innocent people always die in every war. That's nothing new and that's nothing which is related to Bush only. How many innocent people died during Husseins regime? You didn't answer this point at all....I know why..

Quote:
And who u consider more "military leader" and "might focused only".Ahmadinejant or Bush.If a "leader"that made already 2 wars,he's not military leader for u what the **** is he?
"Made" 2 wars is easy said, but not completely true. The first war was not him to start with. USA got attacked (9/11) and hunted down the actors and/or their protectors. And the 2nd war may be started with wrong accusiations (WoMD), but you won't tell me now Saddam Hussein is an angel and has never been an aggressor and still was till the end of his regime? Just remember Kuwait....

Quote:
And the most important.How can u consider USA as the punisher of all.As the punisher of all things might thinks are wrong.None asks for their help.The situation in Iraq is worse than ever.Is worse than all of Saddam's years.
And yes i prefer some "military leaders" than one "punisher" of all.
Again, as mentioned above, the first war (Afghanistan) was of course THEIR thing, coz THEY got attacked. It is not the question of "No1 called them". Who called the USA in world war 2 to invade and get rid of Hitler? No one as I remember. I have the same opinion about "world police" than you have refering to the USA, but on the other hand u have to keep in mind: If you always wait until someone ASKS for help, you often may come too late.

Quote:
And yeah after all u are another blind american supporter.But of course u can't see it.
And of course you should stop getting PERSONAL in discussions like this. Getting personal mostly shows lack of arguments. So u better bring some (funded) arguments instead of trying to offend me.
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homam
homam


Known Hero
Sailor of the open seas
posted April 22, 2007 04:39 PM

Firsly in this way u isolated my post u pass the idea that i believe that terrorist and religion has nothin to do each other.I said they use religion to do such things.
I didn't say that religion never wasn't a reason.I said it's not right to invade a country because of its closed relationship with religion.
But of cousre for u religion is a good reason to bomb a country.Oh i forgot and "military leaders" too.
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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted April 22, 2007 04:43 PM

Seems a bit pointless to discuss such things with you, coz u never answer, but just reword your statements and accuse others who have a different opinion than you as *put in any pro-american offense u can think of*.
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homam
homam


Known Hero
Sailor of the open seas
posted April 22, 2007 04:51 PM


Quote:
Made" 2 wars is easy said, but not completely true. The first war was not him to start with. USA got attacked (9/11) and hunted down the actors and/or their protectors. And the 2nd war may be started with wrong accusiations (WoMD), but you won't tell me now Saddam Hussein is an angel and has never been an aggressor and still was till the end of his regime? Just remember Kuwait....



Ok war for u was for Saddam.Not for oil not for Bush's personal profits.
Just remember Kuwait????Just remember Yugoslavia,just remember Vietnam,just remember Korea....and just remind me and so many other wars.
If we think like u ,to remember an invasion or more to bomb a country who should bomb then USA?All the world and that's not enough.
But of course the role of the "punisher" is refering only to one and the strongest.


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Colonel_here
Colonel_here


Adventuring Hero
Descendant of Ghengis Khan
posted April 22, 2007 06:04 PM

Quote:
Quote:
..Give them some years?For sure i am not the one he can or can't do that.From Usa government u must "ask" to give them some years.But they won't.They will be remaining there,with forces or not,will be there.
How you know? You talk to Bush every now and then?

Lets look at historical evidence.
US captures Philippines from Spain and makes them independent. The bases are still there.
US captures Cuba from Spain and makes it independent. The base is still there.
US during WWII moves its troops to England. The bases are still there.
US troops invade Germany. The bases are still there.
US moves airbases to Spain to protect itself against Soviet Union (side note, that was the time when Fascistr egime of Franko was in power. The fact that Franko was a dictator and generally not a nice person did not bother the good US that sands for liberty, justice and freedoms) the bases are still there.
US after WWII moves it bases into Japan. The bases are still there.
During Korean War US troops come to Korea. The bases are still there.
During first Gulf war the US moves its fleet in Persian Gulf and its bases into Kuwait, Saudi Arabia. The bases were still there long after the end of Gulf War and the ships too.
So what makes Iraq or Afghanistan so different?
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"The job of saving the lives of those who are sinking is the task of those who are sinking" - Ostap Bender
"Only a fool fights a battle he knows he can not win" - Ghengiz Khan

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Geny
Geny


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted July 01, 2007 10:14 PM
Edited by Geny at 22:15, 01 Jul 2007.

REMEMBER!!!!

I got the letter below from one of my friends who forwarded it to me and his other friends. I decided that instead of just spreading it amongst my Israeli friends I'll post it here.
Please, just think about it:

Quote:
        Recently    this week, UK removed The Holocaust from its

        school curriculum because it "offended " the Moslem population which

        claims it   never occurred. This is a frightening portent of the

        fear that is gripping the world and how easily each country is giving

        into it .

        It is now   more than 60 years after the Second World War in Europe

        ended.This e-mail is being sent as a memorial chain, in memory of the

        six million Jews, 20 million Russians, 10 million Christians

        and 1,900   Catholic priests who were murdered, massacred, raped ,

        burned, starved   and humiliated with the German and Russia peoples

        looking the other way !

        Now, more than ever, with Iran , among others, claiming the Holocaust

        to be "a myth ," it is imperative to make sure the world never forgets

        This e-mail is intended to reach 40 million   people   worldwide !

        Join us and be a link in the memorial chain and   help us distribute it

        around the   world .

        Please send this e-mail to 10   people you   know and ask them to

        continue the memorial chain .

        Please don 't just delete it .  It will only    take you a minute to pass

        this along -  Thanks


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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted July 01, 2007 10:24 PM

They are so scared that they may possibly offend the Muslims that it's almost pathetic. First, they offend the majority of European people by doing that. Second, Muslim radicals regularily offend them and no one gives a sh*t about that. It's utterly annoying. A bunch of idiots with AK47s recently became world's most important social group. "normal" muslims don't feel offended by teaching about holocaust. how come that they can spit on UK's flags but UK fears that they may possibly offend them by telling the truth? Ridiculous.

The Europe kneels before radical Muslims. Sadly.

Cowards.

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SwampLord
SwampLord


Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
posted July 01, 2007 10:39 PM
Edited by SwampLord at 22:46, 01 Jul 2007.

On the subject of Russia bleeding the most, people always forget about China. In fact, the Chinese front was by far the bloodiest of the entire war. Also, about the Yom Kippur War, I have heard of that, but didn't Israel also suprise-attack the nations around them, during the 6-day War?(although I believe it was some sort of pre-emptive strike, since they believed another war was imminent.)

Also, the bases are in Korea because of North Korea, and the possibility of another war. The bases are in Germany because of the possibility of a war with Russia during the Cold War. The bases are in Japan because Russia is right there, as is NK. I have never been to Korea, but I believe the knowledge that the US has troops there to help them if NK attacks again gives them a little peace of mind. Also, HoMaM, Angelito is not being a blind American supporter. It's more you being a blind anti-American supporter. And I'm getting sick of people saying, "The war was for oil!" when our prices keep going up! And, in fact, many Americans want to leave. If we were there because we're so selfish and we want oil, wouldn't we have to stay there?
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They can take my swamp, they can take my town, but they will never take my FREEDOM!

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necrorevan
necrorevan


Bad-mannered
Hired Hero
posted July 01, 2007 10:47 PM
Edited by necrorevan at 22:52, 01 Jul 2007.

I am a muslim and I am greatly offended by the negation of the Holocaust.

I agree with Doom forge Europeeans are cowards to kneel before those so called "muslims". The Iranian goverment is so good at claiming the holocaust as a myth but would they like if you said that Saddam did not commit crimes against Iran in the war?!

I don't understand why Europe is supporting these idiots and giving them shelter. Did you know that the Syrian muslim brotherhood HQ is in London. Those beasts who wrecked havoc and chaos in my country Syria, killing hundreds and menacing our secularism are being sheltered. How disgusting.

As for the Holocaust, it is the duty of every muslim to aknowledge it and mourn the deaths of the jewish martyrs who died for their faith just like Jesus, christians and muslims have died for theirs.

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SwampLord
SwampLord


Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
posted July 01, 2007 10:58 PM
Edited by SwampLord at 22:58, 01 Jul 2007.

(Well, I guess the silence period finally ran out. Exactly how long were you silenced for anyways?)
I agree. The problem is, all the world governments are scared of crossing the Muslim religion, or offending Muslims, due to the extremists who try to use anything as an excuse to stir up trouble and get things the way they want.
(By offending Muslims, I mean the extremists, of course.)
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They can take my swamp, they can take my town, but they will never take my FREEDOM!

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necrorevan
necrorevan


Bad-mannered
Hired Hero
posted July 01, 2007 11:10 PM

Hey Swamp nice to see a familiar face who remembers me!

I wasn't silenced, I was to busy studying fo my bacccalaureat and....I forgot my password.

I think you are right, extremists tend to creates excuses out of nowhere. However we must stand against them! It is our duty towards humanity and towards religions that are being disgarced everyday by those brutes.
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SwampLord
SwampLord


Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
posted July 01, 2007 11:20 PM

Yes. Unfortunately, it's a case of the silent majority being upstaged by the vocal few. The vast majority of people of any religion are not extremists. However, the extremists tend to be the most outspoken, and thus get noticed the most. And then, unfortunately, they are seen as representing their race, religion, whatever, when actually they don't.
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They can take my swamp, they can take my town, but they will never take my FREEDOM!

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necrorevan
necrorevan


Bad-mannered
Hired Hero
posted July 01, 2007 11:26 PM

Unfortunaltly you are right.

Extremists tend to attract most of the attention especially from previously moderated people because they think the extremism is strenght whereas moderation is a weakness. Look at the popularity of Hezbollah in Lebanon and even here in Syria. People don't admit that Hezbollah is an extremist faction and instead hail them as victors of a war they started and didn' even win.

What they have forgotten is that Islam among all religion preaches moderation.
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antipaladin
antipaladin


Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
posted July 02, 2007 01:50 PM

This subject sucks.

I know what you think,'your an israely not you part of the disscussion yadayadayada' well let me tell you people some facts that geny missed:


1.For the polish-Jewish realitionship during WW2 it was known of great anti-semetism,and despite there ware NO polish-nazi camps,there ware indead polish assitence to hunt jews.
2.Russians are no better. There ware some anti-semetics attacks of russians on jews before WW2,during WW1,Ironicly it was the germans who secured the jews. Some russians ware against freeing jews from the camps,it was mostly done by americans and brits.
3.Today confilcts is incomperrbull to then.
Yes we are talking about WW3 here,it is understood by all,but WW1 and WW2 was made over eurpean political conflict.Here, Its just raciel hated.
Correct me if im wrong,but the problam here,in middle eastern conflict that despite the fact that nowdays Israel gives weapons and money to fatah the fatah and palastinie people still hates our guts.
Hamas decleared war on fatah,since they want to negoaite in reckongistion of israel as a sate and it right to exist.
how would you otherwise call Iranin Plee to Delite israel out of face of the universe,how does people interpet that? as a peacefull call?
4.As i read through those posts I saw someone said that we shouldnt strike oftenly,as we did with the second lebnon war.
Well,we didnt strike hard,We battled hizbalah ,a terrorist orgenstion inside of lebnon,who took controll of the contry it self.
we sent flayers to citzen inchorging them to leave before we gona attack.
No one belived.
When we did attack , israel was accuised of war crimes?!
how pothetic is that?
5. The brits who dont want to offend muslims,but they want to offend jews? why? becouse jews are not such a high number in america? before you notice there eurpe will becoume mostly muslims , suni muslims.

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types in obscure english

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted July 02, 2007 02:27 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 14:34, 02 Jul 2007.

Yes, as a Pole, I can confirm that many older Poles are antisemites. I've never heard about them helping nazis, though. It's an exaggeration. There were incidents, like the infamous Jedwabne Village, and that's pretty much sad, but helping nazis? I don't think so.

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Geny
Geny


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted July 02, 2007 07:01 PM
Edited by Geny at 19:05, 02 Jul 2007.

@Doom
From what we know Poles did help the nazis to capture Jews. This was (afaik) done in an organized matter, but if a Pole saw a Jew escaping from the camp he could alert the Nazis and some of them did depending on their morale beliefs.

@necro
Thanks, man. In these harsh days it's sometimes easy to forget that there are real people behind every nation's flag. Thank you for reminding me that even in our seemingly most hostile neighoubor country there are good people that make the dream of peace possibly.
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