|
|
TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
|
posted April 24, 2007 02:27 PM |
|
|
felunio's strategy was the 2nd one I was gonna discuss ... but he was faster 
I call it The Machinist... the best hero for it, is obviously Havez, because he has swift creeping without magic, starts with War Machines has lots of troops and so on... CounterSpell and Flaming Arrow are indeed the core of this strategy. The great thing about this strategy is again , the fact that you can focus on troops, and not on mage guilds, so you get a bigger army. Nur and Jhora are also nice for this strategy .
This is not only a killer strategy against Dungeon, it is also incredibly powerfull against all type of Mages. It is great against MMR, Warlocks , Necromancers etc.
If your hero comes after the enemy hero there is no problem ... So he gets to cast one spell, what can he possibly do with one spell? At most, he could take out your ballista. Then it's the same Counter Spelling . That is why it's important that you split your gremlins in two stacks(placed in a corner each), so you have extra ballista repairing! Also adding health mini-artis on them is very nice too.
The real problem are the casters in opponent's army, of course you will have to kill them asap. After that it's the same Counter Spelling and killer ballista.
Against Phoenix Summoners the flaming ballista proves its real power, taking the Phoenix out easily !
PS: About protection artifacts... Yeah they are nice(and hurt the Wizard alot), but you might not always get them. Anyway 50% fire protection might not be enough to stop armageddon, it depends on how powerfull the armageddon is. Some stacks(Assassins , Fury) are gonna be swept very quick by Armaggeon with or without protection and the other remaining can be taken care of with MotW spells. The great thing about Academy against Dungeon is the tankier nature of its troops.... many more hit point 
____________
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted April 24, 2007 02:37 PM |
|
|
I had checked it some time ago and even without casters the enemy hero will get to cast destructive spells if he has sorcery. Because counterspell consumes a whole action while the warlock will have one blocked and then play faster due to sorcery. Not that it can't be disruptive Just for that it would be good to take destructive with sap magic and fire wrath to help your troops.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted April 24, 2007 02:38 PM |
|
|
Quote:
The great thing about Academy against Dungeon is the tankier nature of its troops.... many more hit point
The great thing about this matchup is counterspell , thats all. Without it, its more or less balanced game.
Well those units help a lot during rushes. Thats true.
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted April 24, 2007 02:39 PM |
|
|
Does Magic Immunity work against Destructive? 
|
|
feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted April 24, 2007 02:40 PM |
|
|
|
yes it does, (50% reduction against warlock) you still can protect 1 stack at a time so its not very efficient.
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted April 24, 2007 02:46 PM |
|
|
it's better than Arcane Armor against destructive from Warlocks, I say it's efficient 
|
|
feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted April 24, 2007 02:50 PM |
|
|
Hehe its true it works better than Armor It just doesn't change the fact that if your creatures are not going do deal with warlocks/academy creatures in first 2 turns than you are screawed anyway with or without magic immumity.
Perhaps wizards may have some hard time vs magic immunity i havend faced it as a wizard, but from dungeon perspective it isn't a problem.
Quote:
This is not only a killer strategy against Dungeon,
I dunno how bout you guys but considering that dungeon can do nothing about it , isn't it overpowered?
|
|
TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
|
|
posted April 24, 2007 03:02 PM |
|
|
Quote:
it's better than Arcane Armor against destructive from Warlocks, I say it's efficient
This is a false statement... After Magic Immunity you cannot cast Ressurection, and beneficial spells either ! Arcane Armor does pretty much the same as Magic Immunity but allows you to Ressurect, Phantom, and so on... and it also decreases the damage done by enemy troops, not only spells.
____________
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted April 24, 2007 03:11 PM |
|
|
|
Until it's drained by a single Implosion (the Arcane Armor HP I mean).
|
|
TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
|
|
posted April 24, 2007 03:21 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
This is not only a killer strategy against Dungeon,
I dunno how bout you guys but considering that dungeon can do nothing about it , isn't it overpowered?
Dungeon can do something about it, of course! many stacks of casters help alot, and also as Elvin said Dungeon hero with Sorcery can be faster than Wizard's CounterSpells.
I noticed that one too, but I though it was because I had only Advanced Sorcery and my opponent Expert... but now I realise it was from the fact that CounterSpell isn't affected by Sorcery ...
Quote:
Until it's drained by a single Implosion (the Arcane Armor HP I mean).
Single Implosion ?! you must be joking... First of all, no serious Warlock player would dare cast implosion against Wizards(Magic Mirror ouuuuchhhh) ... And second , have you seen the formula of Arcane Armor ?! It absorbs huuuge damage, not even a Empowered Implosion could destroy it all in one hit! So , with the next best thing, Empowered Meteor Shower , it's gonna last quite a while.
____________
|
|
feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted April 24, 2007 03:24 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Dungeon can do something about it, of course! many stacks of casters help alot, and also as Elvin said Dungeon hero with Sorcery can be faster than Wizard's CounterSpells.
I noticed that one too, but I though it was because I had only Advanced Sorcery and my opponent Expert... but not I realise it was from the fact that CounterSpell isn't affected by Sorcery ...
You are not being serious, are you?
Many stacks of casters are dead after first round and , as i said already warlocks sorcery allows you to cast 1 spell in 5/6 rounds (if you opponent uses jhora) and 1 in 3/4 if opponent uses other hero. Which gives you at most 1 spell in whole combat, if you are lucky enough to survive that long.
|
|
ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
|
|
posted April 24, 2007 03:25 PM |
|
|
Quote:
have you seen the formula of Arcane Armor ?! It absorbs huuuge damage, not even a Empowered Implosion could destroy it all in one hit! So , with the next best thing, Empowered Meteor Shower , it's gonna last quite a while.
600 + 60 * Power compared with:
60+60*Power empowered
90+90*Power empowered+emerald slippers
180+180*Power lucky empowered+emerald slippers Implosion
I don't think Arcane Armor's HP is HUUUGE compared to that
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted April 24, 2007 03:27 PM |
|
|
|
I was going to post a post similar to ZL
|
|
feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted April 24, 2007 03:31 PM |
|
|
Quote:
180+180*Power lucky empowered+emerald slippers Implosion
Nah 90+90*Power*4 stacks meteor shower is better
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted April 24, 2007 03:40 PM |
|
|
Quote:
I dunno how bout you guys but considering that dungeon can do nothing about it , isn't it overpowered?
I assume "it" refers to Counterspell [the qoute is taken from FeluniozBunio several posts back]. I would just add that you should remember that the Wizard spends his turn to make the Counterspell - thus, this is simply "an action for an action", and cannot be considered overpowered.
The fact that the Warlock will still be crippled and loose only shows that the game is poorly developed because the Warlock cannot survive without the spells.
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
|
|
posted April 24, 2007 03:42 PM |
|
|
Quote:
600 + 60 * Power compared with:
60+60*Power empowered
90+90*Power empowered+emerald slippers
180+180*Power lucky empowered+emerald slippers Implosion
I don't think Arcane Armor's HP is HUUUGE compared to that
It is HUUUGE , for several reasons:
- because it absorbs 50% of that damage , so cut down in half the numbers you post.
- because there can be 75% mini-arti equiped, and maybe protection artifacts too or protection perks, so the damage will be reduced alot.
My point here is that you shouldn't compare Slippers Implosion to Arcane Armor
.....actually I wonder how this works with Magic Immunity... after you cast Magic Immunity does it just ignore the other protections(so you can have at most 50% reduction) or does it add those protections too?
Also luck doesn't add like that to the formula... you add 30% if you have + 3 luck, or +10% if you have +1 luck because that is the real damage you will be doing on average.
____________
|
|
feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted April 24, 2007 03:43 PM |
|
|
Quote:
The fact that the Warlock will still be crippled and loose only shows that the game is poorly developed because the Warlock cannot survive without the spells.
Yes, you are totally right. Thats the main reason, warlocks lineup is crap.
Quote:
an action for an action", and cannot be considered overpowered.
Well this would be true if warlock was capable of doing formidable army, but unfortunately he is not, even if he made it somehow dark magic still owns it.
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted April 24, 2007 03:46 PM |
|
|
Counterspell is not overpowered at all.
It is only useful for Wizards due to high mana.
Otherwise it's plain crap, you don't have sorcery with it, you give an action for an action. But still you waste double mana.
It's only worth when your hero is might and crap in magic, but then you wouldn't take sorcery, am I right?
Dungeon lineup is not THAT crap.
|
|
Istari
Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
|
|
posted April 24, 2007 03:49 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
180+180*Power lucky empowered+emerald slippers Implosion
That would be a sweet magic mirror. 
____________
Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong.
|
|
ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
|
|
posted April 24, 2007 03:51 PM |
|
|
I agree with TheDeath.
Still, academy units is the best unit with very high level mini arties (the one that needs 25+ knowledge), those mini arties can cover the low physical growth of the wizards, and make them overpower other faction physical growth (atk and def), not counting their normal artifacts.
|
|
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
