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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted July 21, 2008 02:20 PM |
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Quote:
And red dragon is still more offensive without arcane, just righteous might from witch make it deals much more dmg than black.
I said that in the previous post.
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Thanatos
Known Hero
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posted July 21, 2008 02:35 PM |
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Quote:
Against sylvan, never red dragon.
Why not? Unless they pull high druids + destruction on you a red dragon only has DV to fear from sylvan (or Diraels wasp swarm)... which they have only a 33% chance of getting if they only have 1 town. Seems to me red is better against light sylvan since they have 1 more point of initiative (which gives them a better chance to hit AAs before they get off a shot) and a better damage potential than blackies.
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted July 21, 2008 02:43 PM |
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If you face a good sylvan player, your only chance to win is armageddon tactics.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 21, 2008 02:50 PM |
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Ever tried Regeneration in combination with Reds? 
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What will happen now?
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted July 21, 2008 02:54 PM |
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Of course. Regeneration is a blessing for all factions except necro.
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kermit
Known Hero
Soul hunter
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posted July 21, 2008 03:33 PM |
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Edited by kermit at 15:34, 21 Jul 2008.
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Quote:
True, stalkers are noob-friendly but unless they know how to use this advantage and especially WHEN to use it, it doesn't make a big difference in final fight. Going for stalkers + spells all the way will actually slow you down more then you can imagine. Again, unless the player learns how to make good use of his army, stalkers or not, they are still dead.
About that red dragon thingy. The build with 2 magic schools i used a lot before tote and then it was very effective. Keep in mind that a dungeon pheonix is the most scary bird. Now, what would you prefer to cast first, a bird or armor? I honestly would go for bird 100% of times. Let's compare something. Let's say dungeon vs necro. Puppet will hurt you even more than you think because red does insane damage to an adjacent target. Same against inferno. Against academy, unless you're 100% that they don;t have dark, black dragon is better. Against haven...red dragon, against dwarves, black dragon. Against orcs, red dragon. Against sylvan, never red dragon. So, red dragon is better against 2 factions. Against academy, necro and inferno i wouldn't advise taking red dragon unless you have light. That's it. Red dragon and black dragon are pretty well balanced. Perhaps red dragon needs a little more boosting, like 25% magic resistance, but overall it's ok.
My experience in using red dragon vs haven is pretty bad actually. More often than not my red were killed by divine vengeance. If not killed by DV, they were slowed, blinded, controled... Much the same sylvan can very often use DV on the red dragons.
Red dragons could be usefull with light spells such as haste and cleanse, However for me dungeon has always better options than casting those.
I'd use red dragons only vs orcs who don't have access to magic
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted July 21, 2008 08:35 PM |
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That's player skill, not creature effectiveness.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 22, 2008 09:14 AM |
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I see pretty little skill in abusing DV.
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted July 22, 2008 10:03 AM |
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 22, 2008 10:32 AM |
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And so it should be.
Is the seraph's DV banned too?
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted July 22, 2008 10:53 AM |
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Imo, it should be banned not only in ToH, it's too overpowered, unless there is new patch to change it.
Quote:
My experience in using red dragon vs haven is pretty bad actually. More often than not my red were killed by divine vengeance. If not killed by DV, they were slowed, blinded, controled... Much the same sylvan can very often use DV on the red dragons.
Red dragons could be usefull with light spells such as haste and cleanse, However for me dungeon has always better options than casting those.
I'd use red dragons only vs orcs who don't have access to magic
Againts DV abuser, you can cast arcane armor to half its dmg and never command your red dragon to engage low tier creature. Your problem is only dark magic.
Quote:
Seems to me red is better against light sylvan since they have 1 more point of initiative (which gives them a better chance to hit AAs before they get off a shot) and a better damage potential than blackies.
No, unless you have arcane armor, or another light magic buff (preferably regeneration), but arcane armor is easier to get and imo arcane armor is enough, because the longer the red dragon live, the higher the chance to do incinerate. Arcane armor is excelent for this, your enemy only have two option, defeat this monster with magic or ranged attack or any abilities that doesn't require his creature to go melee againts this monster, or else get incinerated to oblivion.
Red dragon doesn't have the potential to do higher dmg than black, how high the dmg of a creature depends only in creature base dmg, atk skill doesn't give that much different, as it can be countered by defense skill. Attack skill only make considerable difference if the difference beetwen a creature attack skill and target defense skill is about 4-10, if target defense skill is too low, 12 bonus attack skill will never give considerable dmg bonus, or vice versa (if target defense is far higher than a creature attack skill).
Speaking only of dmg, mathematically, red dragon buffed with attack skill only do better dmg than black dragon againts barbarian, all their creatures defense is not that high compared to red dragon atk skill, and barbarian defense skill growth is comparable with warlock atk skill growth (30% vs 35%). Sure, necromancer and runemage also have 30% defense skill growth, but necromancer creature have low defense, and runemage creature have high defense, thus they are off. The rest have to high defense and some have too low defense. This fact make black do almost equal dmg with red dragon buffed with adv or expt righteous might againts most faction except barbarian, unless you can make use of red dragon incinerate or abuse it.
Imo red dragon main strength is its incinerate, not its potential to be buffed, since it also very vulnerable againts most magic, some good buff (light magic) rarely appeared because it belong to different magic school than the warlock, another depends on your luck in your town (arcane armor). And the fact prove that even a buffed red dragon rarely perform better than black without incinerate.
Not only that, judging from its racial, a warlock is a nuker, not a buffer, buffing his creature would cost his precious first turn and possibly his second turn too, thus a warlock need a self sufficient creture like black dragon (magic immune and very good stat) and deep hydra (regenerate).
Imo red dragon need a remake. Though buffing it make this creature excelent, but imo it doesn't fit with warlock's soul.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 22, 2008 10:57 AM |
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Lol you can't do that. But it is forbidden to try learning it through arcane intuition 
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted July 22, 2008 11:03 AM |
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Yeah, but seraph DV is not that strong, imo seraph DV is ok if it is forbidden to learn it through arcane intuition.
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted July 22, 2008 11:46 AM |
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Seraph's DV is not banned. I've told before that enlightenment is the only skill that dungeon needs 100% of games. And eagle eye is your best friend. Trust me, i learnt almost all light spells through it except resurrection and word of light.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 22, 2008 11:50 AM |
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Likewise I have come to love this spell with magic factions. So many good spells around that is a waste to miss not to mention the promise of swift mind
Anyway enough offtopic.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted July 22, 2008 11:55 AM |
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 22, 2008 12:54 PM |
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Err nevermind 
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted July 22, 2008 02:08 PM |
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Here's how a sylvan vs dungeon usually goes. Without armaggedon and blacks you have almost no chance.
sylvdung
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted July 22, 2008 02:08 PM |
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Quote:
Likewise I have come to love this spell with magic factions.
Skill I believe you meant.
I almost never before Tote used it (besides Lethos, and some Wizards) but now because of it being the requirement for Swift Mind, you are inclined to get it more often.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted July 22, 2008 02:24 PM |
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Quote:
Likewise I have come to love this spell with magic factions.
It's useful for all factions. Imagine an early game sylvan without haste.
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