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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Alternatives comparison
Thread: Alternatives comparison This thread is 23 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 ... 19 20 21 22 23 · «PREV / NEXT»
espen15
espen15


Famous Hero
posted July 27, 2008 03:05 PM

´Almost everybody thinks that crystal dragons are better than emeralds, well i don´t think so, that prismatic breath is matter of luck, but emeralds strong attack can harm maximum 2 stacks.

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ChaosDragon
ChaosDragon


Famous Hero
posted July 28, 2008 02:46 PM

Generally, crystal dragon is better.

But yeah, i only experienced this twice, i have 6 luck, but my crystal dragon rarely hit more than 1 creature, i guess it really depends on your luck.

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broadstrong
broadstrong


Promising
Known Hero
Level 20 Vassal of Light
posted January 04, 2009 11:45 AM

Looks like this thread needs fresh impetus, especially with the introduction of v3.1.

Talking about the stronghold upgades, which of the upgraded cyclops is better?  I often use the blood-eyed cyclops (-3 luck is good defence fro my troops in another way), but it seemed that the untamed cyclops, if used well, is actually better, any opinions?
____________
The queer part of the Carcity/Broadstrong/Zamfir[
/b] threeway, equipped with sailing, summon allies, spatial travel and supermover.
Many current projects on hand.

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Momo
Momo


Promising
Famous Hero
posted January 04, 2009 01:12 PM
Edited by Momo at 13:14, 04 Jan 2009.

I'm wondering if the conclusions in the original post should be reconsidered. Many of the choices presented as obvious really aren't that much in my own experience.

Most importantly, the OP seem to disregard shooters/casters the most (Assassin, Spirit, Skeleton Archer, Pit Lord) all of whom proved very valuable in my own creeping in something like the 100% of my games.

True, when the going gets though shooting/casting decreases in value and I wouldn't put much money on pit lords past the first month, but that's the bright side of changing alternative upgrades whenever you feel like it. Creeping and concluding weeks with more troops rather than less is, though, an important aspect of the game.

In short, the OP seems a bit too linear, even if I'm willing to concede that I'm under such impression due to my own inexperience.

And lastly, I can't find the separate discussion about strongholds alternative upgrades in the table of contents, does anyone know where they are?

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Asheera
Asheera


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
posted January 04, 2009 02:09 PM

Quote:
Talking about the stronghold upgades, which of the upgraded cyclops is better?  I often use the blood-eyed cyclops (-3 luck is good defence fro my troops in another way), but it seemed that the untamed cyclops, if used well, is actually better, any opinions?
Bloodeyed is much more preferred by me. Not because of -3 Luck (although that is very nice as well), but because Untamed Cyclops often strikes at your own creatures with that huge attack radius, if the enemy is smart at least.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted January 04, 2009 02:10 PM

@Momo
Creeping is different than hero battles. Typically sprites are a lot better in earlygame because of wasp and cleansing against slow but later on the dryad special and extra dmg makes them more formidable. But assassins are way out of their league when it comes to stalkers, with stalkers's invisibility you can defeat lots of emeralds week 2. Assassins however can be used well with arcane crystal tactics, depends on how you want to play.

About orc analysis you may find interesting the following links:

http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=26708
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=26743
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=24907
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Momo
Momo


Promising
Famous Hero
posted January 05, 2009 02:25 PM

Quote:
@Momo
Creeping is different than hero battles. Typically sprites are a lot better in earlygame because of wasp and cleansing against slow but later on the dryad special and extra dmg makes them more formidable. But assassins are way out of their league when it comes to stalkers, with stalkers's invisibility you can defeat lots of emeralds week 2. Assassins however can be used well with arcane crystal tactics, depends on how you want to play.



Exactly my point.

The OP seems to assume that there's only one circumstance worthy of evaluation, which really isn't true. It's undeniable to a degree that some units are strictly better than others like Wind Dancers or Arcane Archers (we discussed this design flaw months ago) but that's not true for every unit, and at most importantly every stage of the game.

OT: Also - how do you defeat lots of emeralds with stalkers? I'm not too pratical of the dungeon faction but to my understanding you make your units invisible and bombard the enemy units with warlock's spells... I didn't think a warlock could grow powerful to such degree to defat lots of emeralds by week 2... am I missing something?

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted January 05, 2009 03:04 PM

The specific map had 2 towns so I built trade guild and bought a few artifacts. My plan was empowered fireball with ignite that does 1/3 of the fireball damage each time the emeralds act. That said it was on 3.0 where units waited during invisibility, should be a lot harder to kill now that units move around.
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ebbafan
ebbafan


Promising
Famous Hero
posted January 05, 2009 06:29 PM

@broadstrong: i just recently played a stronghold match where i used the untamed cyclops.

some notes:

you really have to understand the attack pattern of the untamed cyclops, this is discussed in the "battlefield dissected" thread.(basically the cyclops will try its best to whack the most number of creatures possible in the nearby retaliated 4X4 square) but even then it is extremely easy for your own troops to get hurt.

they are also particularly deadly to your own troops as well when facing dark magic. therefore it is crucial to get them as close as possible to the other side as soon as possible.

also note that soldier's luck is very good for this upgrade, especially if you get to level 3 rage: bash and fear attack. note that if multiple targets are hit, if anyone of them is affected by bash, the attacked target will not retaliate

my hero build when using this upgrade is to get skills/artifacts/spells that will get the creatures over to the other side of the battlefield as quickly as possible. therefore i choose swift mind + word of the chief, tactics, power of speed(+1 speed), and then hope to get windstrider boots. by placing your upgrade in the center, you can thus reach the other side, attack and hopefully bash a group of creatures, block off another set and lower the morale of other surrounding sets with fear.

for sieges i get death march, though a substitute demon lord hero with expert light and teleport assault is absolutely vicious in sieges when using this upgrade(tested, often times half the enemy army is almost obliterated in one attack!)

on another note, to get some untamed cyclops: if you have the complete dragon artifact set you can get untamed cyclops even if you are not a barbarian faction, this artifact set will give you creatures based on the hero equipping it

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tann_141
tann_141


Known Hero
posted January 05, 2009 10:13 PM

yea but first you need the set... which isnt so easy to obtain..

however once you have it... instant gg

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broadstrong
broadstrong


Promising
Known Hero
Level 20 Vassal of Light
posted January 06, 2009 01:42 AM
Edited by broadstrong at 06:42, 06 Jan 2009.

Quote:
yea but first you need the set... which isnt so easy to obtain..


In large maps with lots of artifact merchants (both adventure map and in Academy / Dungeon towns) this is not a problem.  The dragon set has 8 MAJOR artifacts, which can be bought (unlike relics, which are often not available in artifact merchants since v3.1).

I intend to give my own take on the upgrades analysis (which Doomforge has agreed), even though I normally only play Haven.  Meanwhile, keep the discussions going, for all we know there may be some novel stronghold creature strategy none of us had though of.
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The queer part of the Carcity/Broadstrong/Zamfir[
/b] threeway, equipped with sailing, summon allies, spatial travel and supermover.
Many current projects on hand.

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 06, 2009 12:59 PM
Edited by Fauch at 13:03, 06 Jan 2009.

the main advantage of the untamed cyclop is obviously his very powerful attack.
on the other hand, no one talked about the +1 initiative and speed of the bloodeyed cyclop.

and you forgot to say they are more beautiful (less ugly) too

btw, why didn't nival give him the paralyzing attack? too imba?
in H2 they were like the H3 ghost dragon. they were the worst level 6, but had an awesome ability (when it triggered)

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adon
adon


Known Hero
posted January 07, 2009 01:44 AM

I always take emeralds over crystal dragons. In my experience the trigger just doesn't work enough even with luck of 4 or 5 or more. With the emerald you know exactly how many you will hit each attack and can almost always get 2.  2 in the hand is worth 3 in the bush!

With 3.1 though I haven't revisited...does it trigger more? Does soldier's luck help prismatic breath?


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tann_141
tann_141


Known Hero
posted January 07, 2009 02:35 AM

i like untamed more because of their potential

get tactics and aura of swiftness.. and your mobility problems are solved

that with a nice ring of speed or init boosters and you have yourself a killing machine

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veco
veco


Legendary Hero
who am I?
posted January 07, 2009 08:42 AM

Potential of damaging your own units?
And here i thought you learned your lesson, hehe

btw does Powerful blow onuntames hit all targets or just the intended one?
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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 07, 2009 01:07 PM

crushing blow hits 4 tiles and may stun any of the victims.
if you target a castle wall, it won't hit any adjacent stack.

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veco
veco


Legendary Hero
who am I?
posted January 07, 2009 01:49 PM

I was asking about Powerful Blow, the hero ability. Tested it, works only for the primary target.
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sigma1932
sigma1932

Tavern Dweller
posted January 14, 2009 03:45 AM

Didn't read all 19 pages (yet), but a few points of opinion:

IMO, Magnetic Golems are ALWAYS better than Steels-- having 100% magic-proof ('cept for Fist of Wrath which is weak anyway) and the ability to resurrect them permanently without the HP penalty far outweighs steel's slightly better stats and unlimited retaliation.

that said, there are a few cases where I'll actually take both upgrades:

I take 1 or 2 seducers each week, and the rest mistresses (unless playing against inferno, then I take all seducers since chainshot doesn't work).  Still gain a decent enough ability to seduce (k, might not be able to seduce tier-7's, but that's what expert dark magic and puppet-master/frenzy is for) while keeping the chainshot ability.  I leave tier-2's at home to free up the slot-- their leaping ability is nice, but they tend to die too fast after their initial attack, and all the other troops are too good to leave at home.

I go with a 1:4 split for Battle-magi:Archmagi so that I can hide them both behind a wall of golems and still be able to shoot from behind them after my Archmagi are out of mana.  So long as the battle-magi are adjacent to the golems, they don't get hit by either of the magi stacks' normal ranged attacks.  I usually leave Djinns at home to free up the slot since their HP are relatively low, and Kshatra's can do so much more damage earlier with their 6-tile attack.

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broadstrong
broadstrong


Promising
Known Hero
Level 20 Vassal of Light
posted January 14, 2009 02:07 PM
Edited by broadstrong at 15:14, 14 Jan 2009.

Quote:
Didn't read all 19 pages (yet), but a few points of opinion:

IMO, Magnetic Golems are ALWAYS better than Steels-- having 100% magic-proof ('cept for Fist of Wrath which is weak anyway) and the ability to resurrect them permanently without the HP penalty far outweighs steel's slightly better stats and unlimited retaliation.



@sigma,

Agree about the magic-proof, but you have forgotten armageddon's physical part of the attack, and magnetic golems' magnetism does not work for armageddon.  
With the right spells and tactics, steel golems are usable too.  Most types of heroes would not be readily casting spells during their turn, anyway.


____________
The queer part of the Carcity/Broadstrong/Zamfir[
/b] threeway, equipped with sailing, summon allies, spatial travel and supermover.
Many current projects on hand.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted January 14, 2009 04:51 PM

Yeah, the tread is old. But I'm pretty much done with analyzing H5, so you have to do it without me

Maybe I will post a nice, big summary about H5 and the future of H5, though. right after I finish one hundred overdue things, that is.. -____-

As for the cyclopes, the bloodeyes are among the weaker level7 creatures, while untamed are among the strongest in terms of Damage per week. I think it's better to risk your army getting smashed than to use those bloodeyed wusses.
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