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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: Quicksilver II MOD (Only a begining)
Thread: Quicksilver II MOD (Only a begining) This thread is 12 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 · NEXT»
bigjocker
bigjocker


Promising
Supreme Hero
Forgotten but not Forsaken
posted December 17, 2007 10:11 PM bonus applied by VokialBG on 12 May 2008.
Edited by bigjocker at 17:10, 13 Jan 2008.

Quicksilver II MOD (Only a begining)

Some time ago I was making Quicksilver mod for H3 WoG, released a beta version but just get bored with H3 so the project was stopped. Now I'm interested in H5 and it's modding. So I wanna start a project called "Quicksilver II". It will/would have to include not alternative upgrades but real second upgrades. And it should make H5 to look more like H3 was (Same castles, same creatures, statistics an so on..). QSII should also include some other things too, but it will be much later. If anyone wanna help please respond.

I will start from Haven/Castle, as it looks almost the same as in H3.
Here's a picture from my excel (I finished stats of creatures):








I'll explain the chart:
Cost - cost in gold
2nd - cost in second resource (i.e. gems, crystals...)
Min - minimum damage
Max - maximum damage
Casts - the number of times that creature can use his spec. ability
Lvl - level of the creature
Fight Value - It's the experience you get by killing one of the creature of the kind.
You may see some numbers after spell names (for the casters). First number shows the level of the spell to be cast and the second near letter "m" is the cost of the spell in mana. So Caster(Cleasing2(10m)) means that the creature can cast Cleasing in advanced level for 10 mana for one cast.
Those numbers in red cells are sums, so we will be able to compare each town later.

Upgrades go from top to the bottom:
I.e: Peasant->Pikeman->Halberdier
Archer->Marksman->Crossbowman
..........................
Angel->Archangel->Seraph.

For now that's all. Thanks for attention.
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Daystar
Daystar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
posted December 17, 2007 10:19 PM

I don't mind helping out.
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bigjocker
bigjocker


Promising
Supreme Hero
Forgotten but not Forsaken
posted December 17, 2007 10:21 PM
Edited by sfidanza at 06:22, 18 Dec 2007.

What exactly could you do man?
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sfidanza
sfidanza


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted December 18, 2007 06:22 AM

The idea is respectable, but do you know how to mod a second level of upgrade like you say, instead of alternatives?
Personally, I don't think it's possible, at least not easily. So, I don't want to diminish the interest of the intellectual construction itself, but I suggest you start by figuring out how to actually mod this.

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bigjocker
bigjocker


Promising
Supreme Hero
Forgotten but not Forsaken
posted December 18, 2007 09:44 AM

Actually there's nothing much to do with that. I just need to make it impossible to reupgrade unit,remowe reupgrading cost and that's it. I'm not talking about making new dwellings for second upgrades. It will be like it was. It's just that you will be able to upgrade unit two times and don't think which to choose as the last one will be the best.
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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted December 18, 2007 01:04 PM

Even if you remove the re-upgrade, will you be able to add the *second* upgrade? My personal experience with digging through the data structures would indicate that it's not possible. Maybe I'm wrong though and overlooked something ...

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bigjocker
bigjocker


Promising
Supreme Hero
Forgotten but not Forsaken
posted December 18, 2007 03:26 PM
Edited by bigjocker at 16:13, 18 Dec 2007.

I think you misunderstood too. The upgrades are already there. I will try to explain you in other way.
Let's say we now have so:
Skeleton->Skeleton Archer<->Skeleton Warrior
And I will make so:
Skeleton->Skeleton Warrior->Skeleton Archer
Ofcourse with stats changed.


EDIT: I added Rampart/Sylvan chart
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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted December 18, 2007 04:14 PM
Edited by sfidanza at 18:03, 18 Dec 2007.

Maybe you should re-read what Sfidanza and Maurice wrote and think twice before saying they misunderstood you

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sfidanza
sfidanza


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted December 18, 2007 04:43 PM
Edited by sfidanza at 16:43, 18 Dec 2007.

Again, I think this is not possible. What I think is possible instead is:
Skeleton->Skeleton Warrior
Skeleton->Skeleton Archer

by specifying a really high reupgrade cost. It means once you chose your upgrade you're stuck. And your mod can make it so that Skeleton Archer has better stats, and a higher price.

Trying to chain the three creatures as you said will, as far as I know, result in the middle creature not appearing in the recruitment screen, and the second upgrade not working in the upgrade panel. Again, it should be tested more thoroughly.

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Geny
Geny


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted December 18, 2007 04:45 PM

Does the re-upgrade cost has the same value for both ways?
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sfidanza
sfidanza


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted December 18, 2007 06:02 PM

Yes

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GenieLord
GenieLord


Honorable
Legendary Hero
posted December 18, 2007 06:21 PM

I think that empowering the alternative upgrade, and making it much more expensive will create a similar outcome to a second upgrade. It will also make the 'reupgrade' much more expensive, and it will like you upgrade the creature twice.

The only thing that will be weird about it is the ability to turn unupgraded creature to a twice upgraded creature. Maybe if you'll be able to block the ability to choose the alternative, only to keep the current 'reupgrade' (that will be more expensive, as I said).

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted December 18, 2007 09:17 PM
Edited by Maurice at 22:20, 18 Dec 2007.

I've tried to plough my way into a solution on this one, but so far all my trials have come up negative. I've been checking through the creature .xdb files to get this done.

- The only way I found to get a "real" upgrade option on a creature was by setting the base creature of an upgraded version to "CREATURE_UNKNOWN". However, this also automatically stacks the upgraded creature on the first slot of the dwelling, overlapping the base creature placed there so you cannot buy that one anymore.
- Adding an "upgrades" tag to one of the upgrades doesn't work, it will not give the creature an upgrade button; the alternate button remains. In fact, if you place something else than the other upgrade as a reference in the "upgrades" tag, alternate upgrading doesn't work anymore.
- The alternate upgrades are regulated by the upgrades tag of the base creature. If you remove one there, you cannot swap the other upgrade to the one you removed.
- You can only have two possible upgrades for a creature. Adding more will crash the game.
- The "paired creature" entry doesn't seem to be used for TotE; same applies to the "upgrade" tag about halfway in the info.

The only option that I could possibly see this working, is if you somehow can disable the alternate upgrade function. Otherwise, you will have to find the conversion rate for the alteration (which is a basic 10% of the creature cost you are changing to) and set it really really high to discourage alteration. However, since this goes 2 ways, you would not be able to "upgrade" the first tier to the second, unless at a very high price. And it would also still make downgrading possible. Two side effects you don't want to have, I think.

Edit 1: The first bullet above seems to be the most promising, because it *does* work. The only problem is the overlapping in the town screen. The only drawback that I see is that once you upgrade a dwelling, you can only hire the first and second upgrades; you cannot hire the base creature anymore.

Edit 2: I had hoped to trick the game, suspecting that the game placed the upgrade button below the regrade button, when the upgrade entry was set. This is not the case, unfortunately. If someone can figure out which button to display for which creature (Upgrade or Regrade) then I think we're golden to achieve this.

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bigjocker
bigjocker


Promising
Supreme Hero
Forgotten but not Forsaken
posted December 18, 2007 10:55 PM
Edited by bigjocker at 22:58, 18 Dec 2007.

@sfidanza
I think Maurice has explained everything for real.
@Maurice
I see what you mean. If it is so..I think I'll stay on the first option you mentioned. Because if you had bought an upgraded dwelling I think you won't buy an unupgraded unit.
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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted December 18, 2007 10:58 PM

I'm giving up for tonight, not making any progress right now.

Basically, the functionality works, but there is one thing I can't get my finger behind - perhaps someone else can. The idea is simple:

- Find the .xdb file with the base creature information, remove the alternate upgrade from the "<upgrades>" entry (so it is left with only one);
- Edit the .xdb file of the standard upgrade and add an "upgrades" entry at the proper spot. Add the name of the second upgrade there;
- The tricky bit that I am stumped at: replace the "regrade" buttons with the "upgrade" buttons; this needs to be done both in textures/graphics, as in functionality. Perhaps setting the proper functionality is enough already, I don't know. I just don't know if this is possible at all. If it is, the 'upgrade' function *should* work; in my attempts I was able to perform two subsequent upgrades, it's just that I lost the option to recruit the base creatures.

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted December 18, 2007 11:01 PM

Quote:
@sfidanza
I think Maurice has explained everything for real.
@Maurice
I see what you mean. If it is so..I think I'll stay on the first option you mentioned. Because if you had bought an upgraded dwelling I think you won't buy an unupgraded unit.


Just to note, I stepped over one important thing very easily. You still need to properly add an "<upgrades>" section to the first upgrade, naming the second upgrade in it, otherwise it won't work. This is similar to the way it was done in the base creature.

Furthermore, you will need to remove the second upgrade from the base creature in that same section as well, if you want to prevent a direct upgrade from base to the second upgrade.

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bigjocker
bigjocker


Promising
Supreme Hero
Forgotten but not Forsaken
posted December 18, 2007 11:06 PM

Quote:
Just to note, I stepped over one important thing very easily. You still need to properly add an "<upgrades>" section to the first upgrade, naming the second upgrade in it, otherwise it won't work. This is similar to the way it was done in the base creature.

Furthermore, you will need to remove the second upgrade from the base creature in that same section as well, if you want to prevent a direct upgrade from base to the second upgrade.

I'll try to play with these things tomorrow. And maybe I'll find a decision. And thanks a lot for the help..which i will still need
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BAD
BAD


Promising
Known Hero
posted December 19, 2007 11:42 AM
Edited by VokialBG at 18:23, 29 Feb 2008.

@ BIGJOKER

I sent a mail 2 days ago...I'll send again

Your choice, but you heard my opinion

Anyway, I recommend more abilities if you can to all creatures like:

1. Inferno's creatures should have at least resistance to fire.
2. All level 7 creatures at least resistance to mind spells immunity.


I added that in Wog and will add new ones in 3.59 for sure, but is your mod and you do what you think is the best for it

Anyway, I support your project because the stats look great and better that original
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bigjocker
bigjocker


Promising
Supreme Hero
Forgotten but not Forsaken
posted December 19, 2007 01:41 PM
Edited by bigjocker at 15:19, 19 Dec 2007.

I think you are right about more abilities. Most of the stats are taken from the old QS. Which of my emails have you sent a letter to?

EDIT: I figured out about the upgrades. Everything works fine, jus one drawback - you won't be able to buy unupgraded creatures in a town just like in your case Maurice. (Maybe I even made the same things ). Anyway, I think it's good enough , because who will want to buy an unupgraded creature when he can buy a better one, and still, you will be able to buy 1st and 2nd upgrades.
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BAD
BAD


Promising
Known Hero
posted December 19, 2007 05:16 PM

@BIGJOCKER

Quote:
I think you are right about more abilities. Most of the stats are taken from the old QS. Which of my emails have you sent a letter to?




Glad to hear that you'll add more abilities in the future

I support this project and wont make for now my own mod, I'll remain with my current project for 3.59 WOG.

My mistake, wasn't an email, was a private message and I asked you about some defs for Heroes III WOG.


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