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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 21, 2008 01:19 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
guns don't fit in. not even musqueteers.
Paranoid 
so you think that heroes world technology should get frozen?
i say no.... Nival gave gremlins Handgoone.
Castellans should have ones too! but use gunpower as propellant :lol:
We must accept that everybody has the rights to have their own oppinions, and while we may not always agree with them, that does not make their oppinion less valid than our own.
What this discussion has proven clearly to me is that a significant part of the Heroes fans (as represented in this community) is against the idea of guns in Heroes, as that would either seem out of time with the current game setting, or move the game into a new time setting where many feel that the game does not belong. That's not saying that one could not make that change if one wanted, but please accept and respect that not all want this.
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What will happen now?
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landsknecht
Adventuring Hero
Askin' for war :p and payments
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posted January 21, 2008 01:44 PM |
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.... but.... anti-firearms opinions sound very aggressive.
they just think firearms should not co-exists with swashbucklers.
they never play Cossacks I . they just play AoE3 (which it's not well accepted by fans. but i don't think firearms make AoE3 bad. it's game design itself)
... this is hard topic and i feel like i have been suppressed by many here sir
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted January 21, 2008 05:48 PM |
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That's because guns in HoMM is not really a matter with a logical solution. It's a matter of taste - you either like the idea or you don't, end of story. The "aggressiveness" you claim to see in their posts is just a lack of solid reasoning to base their opinion. And since personal taste is not always based on reasoning there's just no other way to do it.
*walks away wondering if any of it makes sense to someone*
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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Lord_Evil
Famous Hero
Evil lolcat
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posted January 21, 2008 06:00 PM |
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Quote:
Hand-Thingy-blades (Bezerkers)
You mean Katars?
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Orfinn
Supreme Hero
Werewolf Duke
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posted January 21, 2008 08:03 PM |
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Edited by Orfinn at 20:04, 21 Jan 2008.
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I love those! Slice and dice 
Falchions aint bad either.
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted January 21, 2008 08:36 PM |
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A lot of the arguments used here are the ones i have stated before.
so please, if you want to use an argument, please refer from the list that i have made before.
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted January 22, 2008 05:35 PM |
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guns is ok in fantasy world, let laser weapon, nukes, etc come
it doesn't matter, in fantasy world, it doesn't always result in tech beat magic, example: final fantasy, etc.
in fantasy world, logic, law of physic, and things like that are not absolute
chaos and order is far more balanced in fantasy world
i'm sure that one blast of a dragon god is far more stronger than the power of 1000 nukes
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carcity
Supreme Hero
Blind Sage
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posted January 23, 2008 12:40 PM |
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good point but i still don't want guns in HoMM games. i mean guns aren't fun. what will come next missile launchers as catapults
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Why can't you save anybody?
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Wulfstan8182
Famous Hero
, eh?
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posted January 24, 2008 04:18 AM |
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come on guys! everyone is caught up in that nuke/AK-47 idea... there are old guns which would fit perfectly! just read the post i made some time ago about some examples of old guns.
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sith_of_ziost
Promising
Supreme Hero
Scouting the Multiverse
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posted January 24, 2008 06:01 AM |
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Exactly Wulfstan. Who says guns can't peacefully exist in the HoMM universe. Look at one of my favorite games, Age of Wonders Shadow Magic. Its a marvelous, incredible game. And it has guns. I don't think HoMM would be ruined by this. In fact, I think it'll improve it a great deal.
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Steel Yourself for War
Next Set: Mirrodin
Beseiged
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booboo
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 24, 2008 03:22 PM |
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if i really felt the need for firearms i would go play any other game that's on the market today. but i don't want to play a game where firearms or guns are involved just because homm isn't about that. let all games have'em but not homm. i agree that the gremlin in h5 has a magical thingie that fires like a gun but that's it. no musketeers, no nukes, no tech-final fantasy-devil may cry- ****. I really think that guns should stay out of homm world because if i ever saw a gun in h6, I could sincerely say that the gaming industry is going down.
Why need guns when you have arrows, magic, throwable axes. it's medieval. it's mythology.
What if the orcs in LOTR have gun thingies? Or what if Achilles had a musket? it's the same thing with homm.
byez
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excelsior
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 31, 2008 10:47 AM |
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I guess if guns appears, we should entitle the game "Heroes of powder and technology" and wouldn't be anymore a HOMM game.
I don't see the point in having meelee (mispelled ?) fightings if it's easy as pulling a trigger to kill creatures.
Also, I don't want HOMM to get sponsorship from NRA
This debate is more a "how do we want HOMM to evolve" as if you start to bring firearms, you can then brings other technologies that would send the game in a "final fantasy" kind, where blades are next to guns.
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Andrelvis
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 02, 2008 11:59 AM |
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Nah, some development in guns would be interesting - in fact, I would have liked to see the Forge released in some form back when it was discarded for HoMM III (as a free add-on for example, it does no good to anyone having all that work just sitting in someone's computer and not getting released). But, too futuristic things like the Forge must always come with an option to disable it for people who don't like it.
Hand Cannoneers would be interesting, perhaps as an alternate upgrade to the Archer, so people who don't like them can not use them.
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landsknecht
Adventuring Hero
Askin' for war :p and payments
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posted February 02, 2008 06:10 PM |
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^
it was also called handgonnes.
it has no firing mechanism or in some version it was also a matchlock.
... EVEN in the first days of america exploration. spanish conquistadore's troops not only consists of harquebusiers and musketeers. they also have rodeleros, crossbowman or archers, and pikemen just like middle ages.
that means guns ...... if it's NOT TOO hitech.... it can still coexist in HoMM franchise
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted February 02, 2008 06:40 PM |
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It's not that you're wrong about the facts, it's just that that doesn't neccessarily mean you're right with your conclusions.
Sure, the HoMM world could evolve into having guns. On the other hand, the fact that Earth evolved that way doesn't mean Ashan should follow it. The scientists of Ashan don't have to invent powder. Moreover, unlike Earth scientists they have no need for it because they have spells for those effects, so they are more likely to research in other directions more fit for a fantasy world.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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Wulfstan8182
Famous Hero
, eh?
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posted February 02, 2008 08:04 PM |
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very true what Geny said. very, very true. Ashan could have guns, but it doesn't nessesarily mean it should.
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mamgaeater
Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
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posted February 02, 2008 08:04 PM |
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crossbows are in the game.
crossbows can penetrate steel plates.
bodkin arrows can penetrate steel plates.
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Protection From Everything.
dota
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ElectricBunny
Known Hero
Pimp My Box
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posted February 03, 2008 05:04 PM |
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I vote yes - just not for AK-47s
I want to support what lots of people said - loads of really cool games have guns. I mean, take World of Warcraft!! It is one of the coolest, most addictive games I've ever seen. And IT HAS GUNS. Okay, so they are quite a bit better than bows but they cost quite a bit- for a newb anyway lolz
Sorry for a slight off-topic, but look at the Forge town - I believe this whole thread was started by the mention of guns in my Heroes VI? thread. THe forgian creatures might rock, but there are other factors. If you take the same cost and growth of a pikeman and attach it to a cyber-goblin, for example, youll end up with 150 cybergobs attacking 150 pikemen. Guess who wins. But what if who double the cost and take away a bit of the growth of the cyber-goblins? Things start to look a bit more balanced, right?
So this leads to the conclusion that creatures armed with guns could be better than normal creatures, but there might be a lot less of them, and they could cost a lot more.
Lets move on to OLD-FASHIONED GUNS. If you give even a peasant an ak-47, a couple of them could probably take out a Rakshasa or something in 1 hit. But if you give one a musket, with umm, lets see; much slower firing speed and reload, less damage, and also less 'shock', everything seems balanced, like I said.
HISTORY Anyway, why does everyone think that these guns have to be EXACTLY like ancient castellan history? With the possible exception of HAven town, give me a single town which actually follows the rules of history rather than fantasy.
LAWS OF PHYSICSIn a fantasy world like HoMM, you could change the laws of physics a bit, couldn't ya. You could make gunpowder a bit less reactive, a bit more complex to make, etc. Gunpowder doesnt exactly have to be like it is in midieval history. In fact, there would probably only be a substance than was much less efficent than gunpowder, and would possibly only follow the general rules of gunpowder mechanics. IT could possibly be called something different as well.
Like someone before remarked, the wizards could possible come up with guns. You do need to include the development of guns into the whole HoMM storyline anyway. The wizards' gremlin gun was fuelled by magical explosions, relatively easy magic I believe - how else could the wizards mass-produce gremlins? Magic could easily be far more powerful than technology. IF no-one actually MIXES magic and technology, the latter could, I believe, easily fit into the HoMM world.
Tactics are also an issue. No matter how many musketeers you have, you still need someone to protect them, someone to lead the front charge. You cant just put a bunch of harquebus archers on a battlefield and expect them to win all by themselves.
If there's something I haven't covered, tell me. Hope I haven't bored you all to death with this, but I thought these rather detached Ideas in the forum needed to be strung up a bit, in a sense.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 03, 2008 05:32 PM |
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I can accept rifles etc and stuff like in Warcraft that Dwarves and Gnomes use. They use steam.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Guarder
Supreme Hero
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posted February 03, 2008 05:40 PM |
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I hate gun in any "middle age" game(like homm)I can live with the gremlin shooting item(it actually fits gremlin), but not any guns. I don't have played WoW or Warcraft, and I ain't going to do that with the first, so no guns in HoMM
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