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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted July 10, 2008 12:21 PM |
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For those who say guns aren't a fantasy weapon, cannons (both hand and carriage) were in use as early as the 13th century, ie, within the medieval period, and I really can't see hand-cannons imparting great futurism on HoMM, not especially with Land Mines in H3, Dragon Golems in H4, and Gremlin Guns in H5.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 10, 2008 01:53 PM |
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I still dont get it how people think "Guns = Must be sci-fi or present time" and MUST look like "GTA, Ghost Recon, Battlefield".
Forge sucked, medieval guns dont.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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espen15
Famous Hero
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posted July 10, 2008 04:33 PM |
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then i better play ghost recon not h6
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rdeford
Known Hero
Wyld Mapper
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posted July 10, 2008 05:03 PM |
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Quote:
I still dont get it how people think "Guns = Must be sci-fi or present time" and MUST look like "GTA, Ghost Recon, Battlefield".
Forge sucked, medieval guns dont.
I must reluctantly agree. I buy into the concept of Might versus Magic as the underlying theme or foundation of the MM universe, and I love choosing either one path or the other as I play.
I give Xerox the point in this debate-- the technology of times does create the weapons of Might. The humble-seeming steel sword, for example, is itself at the apex of the technology of the medieval times that began with a sharpened flint stone knife. And, a medieval gun would represent yet another step along that line.
Thus the original simple Yes/No question for this thread, it seems to me, has resolved into a more complex question of where do we stop along the technological time line in order to preserve the "spirit" of the MM universe. You see, to my way of thinking, technology ultimately dissolved Magic in the world. That is to say, past a certain point along the technology time line, there is no more Magic and the world devolves into Might versus Might. While that may make a good game to some people, it would ruin Heroes of Might and Magic.
So, I suggest that we be very careful how we answer this question, eh?
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EPAmonkey
Tavern Dweller
Earth Elemental
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posted July 15, 2008 11:15 PM |
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Well, maybe hi tech plasma rifles just don't have a place in the new universe. (sob sob)
I miss Axeoth(breaks out into uncontrolable crying)
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Blizzrock
Hired Hero
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posted July 16, 2008 03:27 AM |
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Guns? In HoMM? No!
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted July 17, 2008 04:38 PM |
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Imo, laser and plasma gun is ok in fantasy games.
Look at Rise of Legends, the Couatl wield very advanced weaponry, mostly laser canons, still their strongest units and heroes are owned easily by the magic wielder Alin, Great CoV lost easily againts Elder Glass Dragon, 3 Couatl Heroes lost easily againts Darkhla (Alin's Master of sand magic). While Vinci is the weakest, they wield steam powered weapon, some even are more powerful than any weapon we have today.
Imo, high tech never cause any imbalance as long as the developer can create a good balance beetwen tech, magic and might, though it is harder for might. As long as it is balanced, i'm ok with guns, even the laser one.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 17, 2008 05:22 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
I still dont get it how people think "Guns = Must be sci-fi or present time" and MUST look like "GTA, Ghost Recon, Battlefield".
Forge sucked, medieval guns dont.
I must reluctantly agree. I buy into the concept of Might versus Magic as the underlying theme or foundation of the MM universe, and I love choosing either one path or the other as I play.
I give Xerox the point in this debate-- the technology of times does create the weapons of Might. The humble-seeming steel sword, for example, is itself at the apex of the technology of the medieval times that began with a sharpened flint stone knife. And, a medieval gun would represent yet another step along that line.
Thus the original simple Yes/No question for this thread, it seems to me, has resolved into a more complex question of where do we stop along the technological time line in order to preserve the "spirit" of the MM universe. You see, to my way of thinking, technology ultimately dissolved Magic in the world. That is to say, past a certain point along the technology time line, there is no more Magic and the world devolves into Might versus Might. While that may make a good game to some people, it would ruin Heroes of Might and Magic.
So, I suggest that we be very careful how we answer this question, eh?
Now that is something to contemplate!
Excellent post! 
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What will happen now?
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LucJPatenaude
Disgraceful
Known Hero
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posted July 17, 2008 09:30 PM |
- penalty applied by alcibiades on 18 Jul 2008. |
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Arch Mages already uses high powered Laser shooting beams of destruction just like Earths' impossible to deviate laser beams. Just make sure that none of your own units are in the middle of the planned laser attack or, you might as well kill them in the process. The plain Mages are using a ball of energy just like a photon torpedo does but even more powerful than that of a mere torpedo. It does not have a limited range capability and, will kill upto 4 units in a row before disappearing off the battlefield and probably knocking down several trees in the woods before fading into nothingness.
Mini arties can have the effect of a gargoyle and a golem becoming powerful shooters. And, aren't gargoyles and golems magically empowered artificial beings such as robots are(Wizards).
Dark Elves and Light Elves possesses these laser and energy(electricity)bound beams and balls of seemingly unstoppable power.
Haven's Crossbowmen with the armor piercing' extremely missile like very long and very precise like missile projectile like arrow.
All types of Liches in the Necromancers' alignment also uses high beam powered lasers with evil cloud dispersements upon contact of the target.
The dwarves' Spearwielders ability to throw a lance as fast as light speed and ignores armory of the enemy plus, the Rune Mage can also shoot an unstoppable(by mystic resistance) ball of energy.
The Evil Eyed Cyclops has the ability to back-up and laser beam one of any attacking enemy units in the battlefield(Orcs)and, the first upgrade of the flying green(level 6)lizard beast can fry the enemy unit's stack by using high powered electricity bolts.
The Succubi Mistress can use a high powered electical energy based beam to fry the enemy unit's stack at the other end of the battlefield. The Arch Devils can both Teleport the entire stack in front of the enemy units stacks at the other end of the battlefield entirely on the first round of combat and, attack in the same time at maximum hit points' effectiveness.
So, eight out of eight factions of HoMM 5: T.o.t.E. are already using late 21st and possibly the 22nd century's extremely advanced technologically bound energy based weaponry(Star-Trek's and beyond as well). What in the world is mere gunpowder's fire explosion hand weaponry's extremely non-precise in reputation has to do with today's and tomorrow's(future's) so-called too futuristic in technology's influence onto this quite advanced game? Answer: It does not.
This is like saying that if the SS Enterprise goes back in time upto today's time frame, it's crew could get infuenced by our pre-historic like mere matter based projectile's gunpowder launched gun. Hmm...I really do not think so.
Moderator's note: This has got to take the price of most entertaining post in Community History. 
That being said, once again, I have to apply a penalty for providing faulty information, and since you obviously didn't heed my warning of last time, I've silenced you for a good time, to leave you room to contemplate your future in this community.
Yours most responsible forum moderator,
Alc.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted July 17, 2008 09:37 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 21:37, 17 Jul 2008.
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Most retarded post ever by Luc... 
How does he post anyway? 
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted July 17, 2008 09:42 PM |
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simple. Luc isn't banned.
It's entertaining though. Ever heard of glasses ?
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted July 17, 2008 10:24 PM |
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He has some point, I think, but it gets lost. I agree that all the factions already have a magical equivalent of "Modern" stuff.
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 18, 2008 12:28 AM |
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Why does he even post here when everything he says seems to come from an entire diffrent game? -.-
...
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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bloodandhonor
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posted July 18, 2008 08:59 AM |
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Didn't they already try this with Forge...
The only cool way would be with a steam powered faction, anything else would be like Age of Wonders. Except if they had gattling guns, in which case it would drive Heroes 6's ratings off the charts.
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Jormungand
Adventuring Hero
The Hammer of Hate
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posted July 19, 2008 12:10 PM |
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no guns!!!
you dont want this game to become star wars or something right?
and what would happen to our beloved dragons?
if we allow old guns in homm6
then this will happen imo;
-cowboys and indians in homm7 (dragons in western style...)
-world war 1 in homm8 (dragon in camouflage clothing)
-messersmiths and spitfires in homm9(dragon with mounted gatling gun)
-vietnam war in homm10 (dragon spitting napalm)
-desert storm in homm11 (dragon shooting phoenix missiles)
-star wars in homm12 (laser dragon with fish bowl on head fighting on dead star)
anyone who says:"awesome!"? NO!!!!!
keep it the old-fashion medieval style as we like it.
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Gods of war I call you, my sword is by my side.
I seek a life of honor, free from all false pride.
I will crack the whip with a bold mighty hail.
Cover me with death if I should ever fail.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 19, 2008 06:11 PM |
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The point is, guns are medieval!
Guns are not something humans have invented recently, they have existed for several hundreds of years.
And there are already guns in-game. Gremlims...
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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jormungand
Adventuring Hero
The Hammer of Hate
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posted July 19, 2008 08:26 PM |
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I know, but 1 gremlin in the game is more than enough.
a whole gunpowder-faction would be a nightmare.
besides; the gremlin's weapon is powered by magic, not gunpowder and it's a better club than a gun (they even use it to repair golems).
____________
Gods of war I call you, my sword is by my side.
I seek a life of honor, free from all false pride.
I will crack the whip with a bold mighty hail.
Cover me with death if I should ever fail.
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted July 24, 2008 02:03 AM |
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The POINT is that this game is set in a Fantasy-medieval context, and in (most) general Fantasy-Medieval contexts, guns simply do not exist.
It cannot be compared to technological progress of actual History since actual History does NOT contain elements such as sentient races other than human beings and MAGIC; both of which no doubt influence the progress of technology in a fantasy-medieval context.
As such, it is perfectly acceptable certain aspects are developed on a 16th century level whereas others (such as weapons) are not.
At least that is how I like to think of it.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 24, 2008 02:18 AM |
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It seems that people think these are the weapons that would be in a HoMM game:
http://www.wallpaperbase.com/wallpapers/military/gun/gun_3.jpg
But 99% of everybody here means like this:
Moderator's note: Image edited to link due to annoying page stretching.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted July 24, 2008 07:11 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 07:45, 24 Jul 2008.
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Quote:
The POINT is that this game is set in a Fantasy-medieval context, and in (most) general Fantasy-Medieval contexts, guns simply do not exist.
That doesn't have to reflect on HoMM though.
Quote:
It cannot be compared to technological progress of actual History since actual History does NOT contain elements such as sentient races other than human beings and MAGIC; both of which no doubt influence the progress of technology in a fantasy-medieval context.
But history does contain a lot of different cultures coming into conflict, and since most of the fantasy races are near-human anyway, race differences can be passed off as cultural differences.
Quote:
As such, it is perfectly acceptable certain aspects are developed on a 16th century level whereas others (such as weapons) are not.
It is likewise acceptable (and probably more likely, given the way we humans act) that weapons development would lead other forms of technology, and even if guns themselves don't develop it's entirely possible that flamethrowers would make an appearance (after all, they require but oil, fire and pressure, all of which were available in the first century.
Quote:
At least that is how I like to think of it.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Quote:
But 99% of everybody here means like this:
actually, I was thinking more along these lines:
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