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| Thread: What's wrong in Belgium... |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Lexxan
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Unimpressed by your logic
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posted January 05, 2009 05:08 PM |
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So was the sale really illegal?
That's the problem. The Shareholders say it was, but the Government claims it wasn't. It's tricky to find out which party is correct, since the law is dubious about such matters.
Fact remains that Leterme's mingling in the Fortis File after the second trial was illegal, since (as in every Democracy) it's forbidden to any politician to interfere in the Juristical Authority.
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And what's going to happen now
We've gotten a new PM and had a few changes in the Government.
Both the PM and the Minister of Justice had resigned and hand to be replaced. A Parlementairy comission will investigate the Interference of Leterme (and of the Minister of Justice, who allegedly, had tried to influence the Court as well...).
However, it is rumored that both will cleared of all blemished after the Comission's Inverstigation (despite breaking the law), and will rejoin the Government later this Year. (the Justice Minister back to Justice, and Leterme as Minister of Foreign Affairs).
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Lexxan
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posted June 05, 2009 11:16 PM |
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Edited by Lexxan at 19:39, 06 Jun 2009.
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Elections this Sunday, in the most fragmented country in the world. These are the Contenders:
Flanders:
CD&V: Christian-Democrats, Currently the largest party in Flanders. Centrists. Led by the current Minister-president of Flanders, Kris Peeters
Open VLD: Liberals, Part of the Ruling coalition in Flanders. Left-wing Centrists. Led by The Flemish Minister of Economy, Dirk Van Mechelen
SP.A: Socialists, Part of the Ruling Coalition in Flanders, But opposition party in the Federal Government. Left-wing. Led by Party Chairman Caroline Gennez.
Vlaams Belang: Right-Wing Radicals; Strongly Flemish-nationalistic, Fiercely Anti-Immigration and known for their down-to-earth and straightforward statements. The Largest party in Flanders, and wrongfully stigmatized as "Undemocratic" and "Fascist". Led by "bulldog" Filip Dewinter.
N-VA: A right-wing, Flemish Nationalistic Party, similar to VB? but more centrist and tactical. Led by Historian and Party Chairman Bart De Wever.
Groen!: The Green Party. Small Opposition party, though they should snatch a few seats per district, in the Flemish Parliament. Extreme Left-wing. Led by Their Chairman, the Venerable Mieke Vogels.
Wallonia:
PS: Socialists, and the biggest Party in Wallonia. Known for it's corruption scandals, and is predicted to lose the elections badly. Led by their current Chairman, and Mayor of Mons, Elio di Rupo.
MR: Liberal party, but a lot more right-wing than Open VLD. It's predicted than MR would win some seats from PS, though not spectacularly much. Led by di Rupo's Nemesis, the Federal Minister of Finances, Didier Reynders
Ecolo: The Green Party. Left-wing. They are predicted to win decisively, and even to succeed the PS as the biggest party in Wallonia. Led by the Charismatic Jean-Michel Javeaux.
CdH: Christian-Democrats. Left-wing Centrists. Predicted to win slightly, at the expense of the PS. Led by Federal Minister of Work, Joëlle Millequet.
...
This should get quite interesting.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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mvassilev
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posted June 06, 2009 12:26 AM |
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Groen!: The Green Party. Small Opposition party, though they should snatch a few seats per district, in the Flemish Parliament. Extreme Right-wing.
Far-right greens? 
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Eccentric Opinion
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TheDeath
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with serious business
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posted June 06, 2009 12:35 AM |
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Ecolo: The Green Party. Left-wing. They are predicted to win decisively, and even to succeed the PS as the biggest party in Wallonia. Led by the Charismatic Jean-Michel Javeaux.
If I were in Belgium they would probably get my vote (probably, since it would be naive to say that without knowing them at all).
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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baklava
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posted June 06, 2009 01:40 AM |
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Far-right greens
"We support nature. It's not our fault that Muslims and snows aren't natural."
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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DagothGares
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No gods or kings
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posted June 06, 2009 02:03 AM |
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Met groen kan je niets verkeerds doen 
(translation: "with green you won't bedoing anything wrong" it rhymes in dutch...)
Said my classmate. Groen! doesn't seem that right wing to me, since I hear that many positive things from my classmates, which is very unhospitable at VB. In fact, if my friends are to be believed, should VB be elected, women will be oppressed again, there'll be a curfew along with intellectual (why do we need libraries?) along with cultural (why do we need non-arian people here?) retardation.
But I am not following politics, because I grow sick of hearing Bart De Wever not giving in and all those politicians unable to cope with their pride, causing our country to be without a government for as long as it did.
I should be followng this, since voting is mandatory in Belgium...
Lex, what are your thoughts on VB?
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Lexxan
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Unimpressed by your logic
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posted June 06, 2009 07:38 PM |
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Edited by Lexxan at 19:39, 06 Jun 2009.
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Quote:
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Groen!: The Green Party. Small Opposition party, though they should snatch a few seats per district, in the Flemish Parliament. Extreme Right-wing.
Far-right greens?
Left-wing is what I meant... lol, it was quite late when I posted that.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Galev
Famous Hero
Galiv :D
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posted June 08, 2009 07:40 PM |
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Edited by Galev at 20:04, 08 Jun 2009.
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I just love it when people from western European countries start complaining about how hard everyday living is
Look at other parts of the world for heaven's sake. Sure, it's not perfect in western Europe either, but come on, it's better than anywhere else.
This particular thought drew my attention. I think it is a solemn question. I don't know you Baklava nor the way you see things so I'm not going to talk about you, but what your post arose in me. (so this is not personal remarks)
I think several people in the world think about "THE West (including USA in "the west") as some kind of unearthly paradise. As if there were no real problems. And when someone rises one's voice they quickly silence them "Oh it can't be that bad, oh but you are not starving, are you?"
But this way of thinking is dangerous. As I see it, the West made itself look very shiny and very attractive from the outside, but it's not exaggeration to say, it is rotten to the core -as I see.
I see it here in Hungary, and as they said it on TV, radicals gain ground in the EU parliament as well as in local governing. There is a grave problem. We talk about it often with my age group and our parents and basically I hear it anywhere I turn -from the "folks", but not the "officials".
And as I see it, there's no thing to start with, you just start making an idea about how would you correct this or that problem, but then you bump into other problem at the core and so on, on and so on. Like a trap of 22. Seems unsolvable. Sure it isn't impossible, but not a jummy candy.
So from the outside, the West sure looks great. And I am really grateful for having house (well, flat ), food, university membership, cinemas, PC and TV and many more luxury [in my view, everything above the essential is luxury - including: chocholate, makeup, sport shoes, plumbing]. And I feel pretty guilty when I see beggars. "What kind of a 'society' is this I live in?" We let those people eat our junk. And we blame them for our problems.
Still I play games and eat good food and live as I did, I'm not going to tell anything different. So yes, there are many nice things here that are unavailable in the major part of Earth, and even nicer things in the west.
But there is a catch, it is too good to be true.
People in "the east" should -as I see- not strive for a life of the west, but for something better.
This western world makes you think that above all, stands possession. To reach that there is consumption. And for consumption, there is money.
So your happiness lies in nothing else but money. Get to it no matter what. No matter of morals or justice. No matter of your life, your health, your spirit, your marbles, your family, your friends, your environment (meaning people and nature). Nothing matters, but You, I mean: nothing matters, but ME. This is a ME-ocentric [hehe, not a Meow-centric] world. It explains -I think- much of the corruption and many problems we have. Also consumption-money system needs you to constantly spend money and consume things. For that you need to throw away old things, and for that you need to be convinced the you must get the newest, you must get the best. You just can't be satisfied with the old crap you have/you are. You must look this and that way, you must wear this and that etc.
Oh yes, probably conspiracy or what you may think. But no one denies it. And they actually don't force you, they are just very persuasive. And so... we(they) have to harvest what we sowed.
And the rest of the world with us/them...
So no, I have to say, It Is Not Better Then In Most Of The World. In many qualities it is the worst thing. We have no morals, we have no values. Without values, what worths anything?
I hope I wasn't too lengthy and pointless.
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Incidence? I think it's cummulative!
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mvassilev
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posted June 08, 2009 07:43 PM |
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So your happiness lies in nothing else but money. Get to it no matter what. No matter of morals or justice. No matter of your life, your health, your spirit, your marbles, your family, your friends, your environment. Nothingmatters, but You, I mean: nothing matters, but ME.
You know not of what you speak.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Galev
Famous Hero
Galiv :D
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posted June 08, 2009 07:45 PM |
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Edited by Galev at 19:57, 08 Jun 2009.
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Quote:
So your happiness lies in nothing else but money. Get to it no matter what. No matter of morals or justice. No matter of your life, your health, your spirit, your marbles, your family, your friends, your environment. Nothingmatters, but You, I mean: nothing matters, but ME.
You know not of what you speak.
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Lesson three: Don't touch the subject of programming with Death or economics with mvass. It's their expertise and I wouldn't be surprised if they published a few books on the subject.
I think I shall heed advice...
...
But just this one time:
"What do you mean?"
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Incidence? I think it's cummulative!
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mvassilev
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posted June 08, 2009 09:34 PM |
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Because life in the West isn't about possession - it's about the individual's happiness, of which possession is just one component (and not even the most important one). While there certainly are people for whom extreme consumerism is the only goal, they are generally looked down upon in the culture. Moreover, there is nothing wrong with pursuing one's self-interest. It is in one's self-interest to have good friends, good health, sanity, a clean environment, etc.
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Eccentric Opinion
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TheDeath
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with serious business
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posted June 08, 2009 09:45 PM |
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Oh yes, probably conspiracy or what you may think.
LOL what? That was the most sincere description of an advertisement-driven world 
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I hope I wasn't too lengthy and pointless.
Not at all your post was inspiring.
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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Celfious
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From earth
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posted June 08, 2009 09:54 PM |
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Hi I have read a bit, and I really hope that food becomes reasonably priced in the future.
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What are you up to
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DagothGares
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posted June 08, 2009 10:04 PM |
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Oh, thanks, celfious, but prices have lowered pretty well. I think it's because we're falling into recession or something... Damn me for not following up on recent events and not memorizing the terminology!
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Lexxan
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posted June 08, 2009 10:14 PM |
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Lex, what are your thoughts on VB?
Imo VB is a Right-wing Political Party. I do not agree with their immigration ideas, which seem their most important points. Imo, they are too radical to are my vote.
However, I have some esteem towards VB-Politician Filip Dewinter. I may not agree with him on most of his points, but I cannot admit that he has Courage and boldness. A fool's courage, yes, but courage still.
I myself have voted N-VA. They and VB overlap on many points, but they are a lot less radical. Besides, they had, unlike VB, a chance of governing. I like N-VA's ideas and the competence of it's politicians (Especially De Wever) seems satisfactory at least. I'm curious whether they'll keep their promises.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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DagothGares
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posted June 08, 2009 10:22 PM |
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Bah, don't like Bart De Wever, I bllame him partly for us being in such a political standstill for so long (it's not that he was the only stubborn unreasonable politician, but he was one during the reforms, where our king was also proven to be very inadequate...)
Enough with the bad memories, CD&V was one of the winners and I'm partly happy. Though, the fct that conservative parties won isn't much to rejoice about...
Open VLD!!! Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo....
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Galev
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Galiv :D
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posted June 08, 2009 10:25 PM |
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Edited by Galev at 22:40, 08 Jun 2009.
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Because life in the West isn't about possession - it's about the individual's happiness, of which possession is just one component (and not even the most important one). While there certainly are people for whom extreme consumerism is the only goal, they are generally looked down upon in the culture. Moreover, there is nothing wrong with pursuing one's self-interest. It is in one's self-interest to have good friends, good health, sanity, a clean environment, etc.
I agree with you, now that you detailed it.
I really made it far too polarized and did not expound everything. It is really much more to the West than possession, I mixed up a bit (too much) the advertistement-driven world -as Death put it- with the other things (see edit) and it became a bit twisted as I see it more clearly by your comment. (Hey, it really makes you see more clear when watching from an other perspective )
To pursue one's self-interest is not "inherently bad". But I think we lost the balance, the measure. To seek nothing, but self-interest is called egoism and acceptedly wrong.
Thaks for the constructive feedback.
@Death, thanks for the positive feedback
edit:
the illusions about the "perfect, nothing can be awful West"
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DagothGares
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posted June 08, 2009 10:30 PM |
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Seeking one's own happiness isn't acceptedly wrong. Well, it shouldn't be.
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Galev
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Galiv :D
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posted June 08, 2009 10:35 PM |
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Seeking one's own happiness isn't acceptedly wrong. Well, it shouldn't be.
'xcuse me? So you think egoism is no problem at all, or you misunderstood me? I'm confused.
Seeking happiness isn't wrong, we all do it and it is in some form considered a virtue. But when my happiness would be to kill babies after raping them... But it would belong to the "Where we draw a line?" thread where I didn't post on purpose.
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Lexxan
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posted June 08, 2009 10:35 PM |
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Hmpf... I'd rather have N-VA than Cd&V or Open VLD.
Open VLD, the party of Ex-PM Guy Verhofstadt doesn't deserve my trust. They have broken they word and their promises a lot more often than the other parties did. Especially Verhofstadt is the King of Deal Breaking. He ended up not only breaking his promises, but doing the EXACT OPPOSITE, when Governing. Also, he demands a new Chance... He'll save Belgium... HE HAD 8 YEARS TO GOVERN THE COUNTRY AND SAVE IT, AND HE PUSHED IT IN A BOTTOMLESS PIT. (Emphasis, not shouting). I mean, why would I even think that he can make a difference? He had his chance and blew it. Other "Front Fighters" of Open VLD; Bart Somers, Dirk Van Mechelen and Patricia Ceysens, all LACK Charisma and credibility. Somers is soft, Van Mechelen is boring, and Ceysens insignificant. Just a simple glance on the candidates, and I'm not surprised they lost.
CD&V is no better; I'm Amazed that Leterme, an even more clumsy Prime than Verhofstadt was, still Manage to get 90.000 votes. 90.000. Ninety THOUSANT, to the man whose only effort was to sell the biggest Bank in Belgium at a BIG financial loss, thus fuelling the Financial Crisis in Belgium, and creating one of the most Dramatic Sales in Belgian History. The only CD&V politician I can respect is Kris Peeters, who has a Stateman's Elan. I personally like him as Flemish Minister President, though I do not buy hs fairytales about the "Dialogue for a State Reform". The Walloon already had shut the door.
All this prattle should lead to only one righteous conclusion: If we cannot reform the State with Walloons, then we'll do so without them (and without Wallonia altogether).
It's not a matter of if. It's a matter of when.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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