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Hobbit
Supreme Hero
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posted December 09, 2012 08:38 PM |
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted December 10, 2012 09:09 AM |
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Quote:
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if it's compatible with WoG
It isn't. 
Unfortunatelly. Hopefully it will be. Somewhen.
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted December 10, 2012 09:41 AM |
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There is one way to have them all, you know 
Unfortunatelly, last time I heard HoTA team themselves do not want to move HoTA to other platforms, like ERA or VCMI. I still hope they'll change their minds in some months .
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The future of Heroes 3 is here!
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hobbit
Supreme Hero
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posted December 10, 2012 10:26 AM |
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In HotA 1.1 credits it is said that ERA is a future platform for HotA. While ERA 2.5 is supposed to work without WoG... well, these two won't be compatible anyway, even with VCMI. 
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Horn of the
Abyss on AcidCave
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted December 10, 2012 11:11 AM |
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Are features mentioned on first page (Commanders, stack experience) still wanted? They certainly belong to WoG, even if we are free from old WoG executable.
Also, there is essential question: what "WoG" does mean for you today? Is it engine, old and faulty executable, predecessor of ERA, host of ERM scripts, or gameplay features mentioned?
VCMI is here to have original content, new content (HoTA, for instance), including creatures, soon also towns and artifacts, other content, (all optional), WoG features (Commanders, stack experience), also optional. it would be just nicer if HoTA was ported to this engine officially rather by some 3rd party strangers in their basement.
Not sure what ERA wants to be in this situation. It has a bit of everything and noticable popularity, but still feels like a giant pile of test examples. Or more like: why HoTA needs ERA?
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The future of Heroes 3 is here!
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 10, 2012 12:24 PM |
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Not sure how it works, but is VCMI right now ready for porting HoTA asap to? Can we add new town already in VCMI? Seems to me HoTA has already its own language and was worked several years. Porting this to another one would not mean start from scratch?
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Era II mods and utilities
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Sav
Known Hero
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posted December 10, 2012 01:08 PM |
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Edited by Sav at 13:18, 10 Dec 2012.
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HotA doesn`t need any WoG features like commanders. It also doesn`t need possibilities that Era gives. And the "right" HotA is planned to be for SoD.
But it is possible to make the version of HotA which will be compatible with Era, as they use similar executables (and it doesn`t mean start from scratch, only additional code that fix WoG). Doing this isn`t interesting for me, but I think that it can be important in some ways (for example, it will allow to create map with Erm-scripts for HotA) and I`m going to work on it after completing necessary base things for SoD (and it won`t be soon).
To make HotA based on VCMI is impossible task.
Salamandre is mostly rigth.
HotA is not only the content, it is also a base itself. It hasn`t its own language (if it meant scripting language, isn`t necessary for coding issues), but it has much of code that allow to add creatures, heroes, boats, battle animations and so on, it also fix some SoD bugs and extend its functions.
Move to VCMI means lose all the code: all the base and the part of content (new creatures, heroes etc. abilities) - and become totally dependent on VCMI team decisions. This might be necessary if we couldn`t do things ourselves, but we can. We can`t be sure, if VCMI will be ever finally released, if it will the sterling alternative to SoD, if it will contain all possibilities we will need.
And, personally for me, modding without reverse engineering has no interest.
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hobbit
Supreme Hero
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posted December 10, 2012 01:09 PM |
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Are features mentioned on first page (Commanders, stack experience) still wanted?
I don't think so. Last time I've seen anything about future stuff, these things weren't even mentioned. That means such WoG features (and that's what I'm talking about - ERA won't be WoG anymore) aren't wanted in HotA.
Besides - first 15 or more creature slots from WoG are used in HotA. And it seems that it won't end here.
Quote:
Not sure what ERA wants to be in this situation. It has a bit of everything and noticable popularity, but still feels like a giant pile of test examples. Or more like: why HoTA needs ERA?
Well, I can ask you: why HotA needs VCMI? The answer for both is the same - it doesn't need them. It's about being more "useful" for players.
ERA is all about mod supporting - usage of plugins and exterior files, especially lods. It's simpler, more stable than WoG and also is going to give us optional ERM while WoGification won't be necessary anymore. Also it isn't a completely new code - there still remains this "awful" reverse engineered code, so 3.58 mods would still kinda work without much of work.
While I do understand VCMI goal is pretty much the same, there's one thing which makes it all TOTALLY different, and that is: the code isn't the same as in Heroes 3. It's similar, but not the same. And while nowaday mods are more often based on reverse engineering and hex editing, porting them would need, well, just starting all this hard work from all over again. A little bit pointless while effect would be more or less the same.
And that's why ERA now is superior to VCMI. It can be changed in future, of course, but remember: it can.
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it would be just nicer if HoTA was ported to this engine officially rather by some 3rd party strangers in their basement.
I think you forgot that VCMI isn't ready for HotA features right now. And I think it won't be ready for many months. So why waste your time waiting for a new platform? Now HotA seems to work fine without it, and if something isn't broken, you shouldn't fix it.
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Horn of the
Abyss on AcidCave
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted December 10, 2012 01:12 PM |
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Can we add new town already in VCMI?
We have partial success on this  this screenshot is two months old.
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Seems to me HoTA has already its own language and was worked several years
Yeah. The trick is we can have similiar effects after several months.
Also, the point of HoTA (in my opinion) is not about implementation, but content. That is, town with new creatures, heroes, objects, artifacts (soon?). They are not tied to any particular piece of code, just to general concept of Heroes 3. All in all, HoTA was meant to be expansion to original game.
Minor mechanics (especially new abilities of heroes or creatures) will need some work, but these are subject of discussion. I think same issues will be met in ERA.
Hobbit, I never asked anyone to "wait" for VCMI or do any other sacrifices, but just to accept it as avaliable platform for this mod and the others.
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The future of Heroes 3 is here!
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hobbit
Supreme Hero
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posted December 10, 2012 01:21 PM |
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But you said that compatibility problems can be solved only with VCMI, which - as Salamandre, Sav and I proved - is wrong at many levels. Making a completely new executable would be the best, but not after years of reverse engineering. Now it's good for new projects, not the existing ones.
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Horn of the
Abyss on AcidCave
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted December 10, 2012 02:08 PM |
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Well, I asked for some essential decisions behind HoTA. Got answer only about dropping Commanders, which is always a loss 
Unfortunatelly, there are lot of complains which are wrong. It shows you still don't understand most of concepts about VCMI, which makes me worried.
Let's put it down one by one:
Quote:
(HoTA) it has much of code that allow to add creatures, heroes, boats, battle animations and so on, it also fix some SoD bugs and extend its functions.
That's very similiar to what we have. You can simply use one piece code or the other. It doesn't take any effort to write new code for VCMI.
In fact, the purpose is to avoid writting ANY more code by modder. Once can just take VCMI game and add new creatures for it without going into technicals.
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become totally dependent on VCMI team decisions
It's not like we take decisions flipping a coin when you don't watch. Some decisions, such as multiple upgrades for creatures, were actually inspired by HoTA 
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We can`t be sure, if VCMI will be ever finally released
This is very wrong. When open source gets its "final" release, it simply means it's just dead. It's not a good sign at all.
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While I do understand VCMI goal is pretty much the same, there's one thing which makes it all TOTALLY different, and that is: the code isn't the same as in Heroes 3. It's similar, but not the same. And while nowaday mods are more often based on reverse engineering and hex editing, porting them would need, well, just starting all this hard work from all over again. A little bit pointless while effect would be more or less the same.
I agree here. But this issue is not the effect, it's the cause. People still make incompatible mods with random scripts because they CAN'T simply add new content to the game, without writting cryptic scipts and reverse-engineering.
New mods don't need to take a team of 15 people working for several years juts to abandon project. Modding is accessible for everyone without programming exprience. Modding can be easy.
Future is bright.
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The future of Heroes 3 is here!
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Sav
Known Hero
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posted December 10, 2012 03:38 PM |
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Edited by Sav at 21:36, 10 Dec 2012.
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That's very similiar to what we have. You can simply use one piece code or the other. It doesn't take any effort to write new code for VCMI.
In fact, the purpose is to avoid writting ANY more code by modder. Once can just take VCMI game and add new creatures for it without going into technicals.
We also can add creature, hero or creature bank without coding except some abilities.
If your and our tools are similar, there is no reason for us to switch to yours.
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It's not like we take decisions flipping a coin when you don't watch. Some decisions, such as multiple upgrades for creatures, were actually inspired by HoTA
As you think that dropping commanders is lost, VCMI ideals seems not to be fully compatible with HotA`s. You may add somethig which is obivious to VCMI team and many other people and VCMI modders as thing that mustn`t be optional, but for HotA it can be unacceptable.
Other thing is that being based on VCMI, if we need more possibilities, we will have to wait while you provide them (also, no one guarenteed that you will accept all the requests) and have to take them down even if we don`t find them quality enough.
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New mods don't need to take a team of 15 people working for several years juts to abandon project. Modding is accessible for everyone without programming exprience. Modding can be easy.
You only allow teams without reverse engineer. Graphics, etc. are hard work too.
But from the other side - there is no place for reverse engineers in VCMI modding. No bright future for them.
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Bersy
Honorable
Supreme Hero
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posted December 10, 2012 05:12 PM |
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Personally I don't know why Warmonger is constantly opposing VCMI to Era, while Era is allied project to all Heroes 3 community. When VCMI has ERM support, many scripts can be easily ported. When VCMI has final mod support, converting optimized Era mods to VCMI form is dozens times easier then taking data from wog archives. I accept only positive encouraging concurrency.
When VCMI have all tools to port 90% of Hota, enthusiasts will port it. You don;t need asking original team. We are all doing our job, right?
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Pim18
Known Hero
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posted December 16, 2012 06:06 PM |
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I have a question. Is this mod compatible with the gog.com version of Heroes of might and magic 3? Technically it should be since it is the complete version, however I am just asking this to be sure.
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gnollking
Supreme Hero
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posted December 16, 2012 06:26 PM |
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Should be, of course.
I use it as well.
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krs
Famous Hero
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posted December 16, 2012 09:46 PM |
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Dear Santa...
Please, please make them release even alpha English version until X-Mas!
A Disgruntled H6 buyer.
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SquigPie
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 16, 2012 10:47 PM |
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blueskirt
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 17, 2012 03:43 PM |
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If your and our tools are similar, there is no reason for us to switch to yours.
The way I understood it, Warmonger is not asking you to switch tools for your own sake, he's asking you to switch tools for the players' sake.
What Warmonger wishes for is that if players want to use HOTA's features alongside other third parties towns, creatures and features, they can. And VCMI will allow that, whereas nobody knows yet if vanilla HOTA will be moddable.
This would be the main reason for you to switch to VCMI when VCMI is done, to give the players more toys and tools to play with.
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Sav
Known Hero
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posted December 17, 2012 04:36 PM |
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This is the reason for making version for Era. And, unlike switching to VCMI, in Era case we lose nothing but time.
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krs
Famous Hero
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posted December 22, 2012 01:34 PM |
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Heresome HotA ideas. Any news on the English translation?
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This thread is pages long: 
