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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 01, 2008 10:12 AM |
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Edited by Elvin at 10:14, 01 Jul 2008.
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Quote:
Look I don’t want to hurt your feelings but please play with any faction on Heroic difficulty on a map that doesn’t have only tier ones guarding mines. I want to see you killing horde of shooters on day one and not losing all your army with any faction but Inferno or Necropolis.
I know I can with orcs, academy, dungeon. Of course starting hero determines a lot.
Quote:
Well atleast somebody shares my point of view. I just didnt know that most people played custom maps, actualy yesterday was the first time I tried a scenario map where you start with a level 20 city and that made me sad! Maps with 2-3 gold mines next to your castle guarded by golems, ofcourse people like Sylvan for those maps.
I don't know any such maps, most I've seen is lvl 6. For me the norm is lvl 3 with tavern, tier 1 and fort - less than that makes for one annoying and slower than needs be game.
Quote:
What makes you think there experienced players?
I know a couple of things 
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted July 01, 2008 11:43 AM |
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Elvin is a little annoyed?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 01, 2008 12:14 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 12:16, 01 Jul 2008.
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Not overly  Just clarifying.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Cleave
Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
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posted July 01, 2008 12:21 PM |
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Edited by Cleave at 12:28, 01 Jul 2008.
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Quote:
I'm too tired to explain, all I'm going to say is Load a scenario map with a level one city with any factions other then necropolis and inferno and die against the first neutral you encounter then come back to these forums. And no don't say your 20 pixies and 10 blade dancers killed 65 gremlins split into 4 stacks without losing any units.
If you're "too tired to explain" then you shouldn't be posting.
Ok big man, look at my signature, click on the X. You'll find a map I generated with a custom template that will give you an idea of the kind of difficulty I like in my games. It's not hardcore and it's rather balanced between factions. Look at the central zone and you'll see what type of neutral stacks I like to fight.
Back on topic.
Dungeon with Stalkers is certainly one of the best faction for creeping. Sylvan is harder but given the right start it can be quite good and it certainly not worse than starting with Inferno without Deleb.
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13 Heroes
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Zwok
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 01, 2008 12:27 PM |
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Edited by Zwok at 12:33, 01 Jul 2008.
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Quote:
I know I can with orcs, academy, dungeon. Of course starting hero determines a lot.
I don't know any such maps, most I've seen is lvl 6. For me the norm is lvl 3 with tavern, tier 1 and fort - less than that makes for one annoying and slower than needs be game.
Quote:
What makes you think there experienced players?
I know a couple of things
#1 Show me killing 30 Dryads with Orcs without losing your units, please. Day 1 of course level 1 city. Academy and Dungeon, sure but you will lose all your mana and then it depends if there’s a well near you. (I'm serious about the orcs part, since I'm a Barbarian player and really want to know how ).
#2 Don't tell me you never heard of maps like Battle for Honor.
#3 Look at the maps you played... I just discussed that.
Let’s not turn this into a flame war I really don’t like when that happens. As I already mentioned my favored faction are the Barbarians so if you really think Inferno is so underpowered and handicapped please "Oh great HoMM Pro’s" teach me how to beat a faction that’s pretty much best at everything.
P.S. I just did a little test with attacking on first day with different factions, Inferno was the only faction able to kill 52 elder gremlins on day one with losing only 5 imps. Please great gods of HoMM teach me how to do that with all the imba factions you mentioned. (Necropolis Kaspar hero not included, he’s sick imba at farming).
Quote:
Dungeon with Stalkers is certainly one of the best faction for creeping. Sylvan is harder but given the right start it can be quite good and it certainly not worse than starting with Inferno without Deleb.
I agree that Dungeon with Stalkers is great, I actually managed to beat the first academy TotE mission with just using the Assassins in the begging of the mission and converting them to Stalkers. The problem is in a real game Warlocks have measly 10 knowledge, which hardly lets you use any spell till your higher level. Of course you could use Dark Ritual = waste of turn or run back to your town = waste of turn.
P.P.S. Ofcourse maybe I'm just an idiot and missing something very important with other factions, but I highly doubt that.
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted July 01, 2008 12:34 PM |
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Quote:
Not overly Just clarifying.
I don't want people to see that you have 4-1 against me. Can you edit the picture and remove that part please?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 01, 2008 12:36 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 12:38, 01 Jul 2008.
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Level 1 is pointless but if you want to defeat 30 dryads day 1 on such a map get Haggash, build tavern and combine armies There you have it, relatively easy fight. If you manage to get tactics due to a chest or learning stone it's a breeze.
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I don't want people to see that you have 4-1 against me. Can you edit the picture and remove that part please?
  If you want a public admission that you kick my butt say the word!
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted July 01, 2008 12:41 PM |
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OMG OMG OMG!!! can you do that? please? Tell everyone that i'm the best player in the world?
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forest001
Known Hero
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posted July 01, 2008 12:45 PM |
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Quote:
#1 Show me killing 30 Dryads with Orcs without losing your units, please. Day 1 of course level 1 city. Academy and Dungeon, sure but you will lose all your mana and then it depends if there’s a well near you. (I'm serious about the orcs part, since I'm a Barbarian player and really want to know how ).
maybe you can show us something not just theory crafting?
all your statements are bit pointless without proof of inferno opness.
post some replay please.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 01, 2008 12:45 PM |
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I hereby declare that samiekl effortlessly owns my sorry hide and if he had the time and interest he would humiliate the rest of you noobs out there.
Like it?
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted July 01, 2008 12:50 PM |
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I'm not interested in your ass only. but EVERYONE's. i'm the BEST.
Btw, i'm kinda back, although for rare games.  Played a dungeon vs academy with Elit and a necro vs dwarf with Kispagat this weekend.
I'll destroy the WOOOOOOOOOOOOORLD.!
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Zwok
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 01, 2008 12:51 PM |
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Quote:
Level 1 is pointless but if you want to defeat 30 dryads day 1 on such a map get Haggash, build tavern and combine armies There you have it, relatively easy fight. If you manage to get tactics due to a chest or learning stone it's a breeze.
Quote:
I don't want people to see that you have 4-1 against me. Can you edit the picture and remove that part please?
If you want a public admission that you kick my butt say the word!
My game is translated poorly, I just checked the name on homm website, what I meant is 30 sprites not dryads. Actualy my game is translated so poorly the names are Fairy, Dryad, Nymph; Arcane archers are "Wood Archers" wow... Who translated that :S
maybe you can show us something not just theory crafting?
all your statements are bit pointless without proof of inferno opness.
post some replay please.
Thought you would never ask, you remind me of a very funny person actually...
Day 1 replay: http://www.sendspace.com/file/gctihl
Ofcourse I could send you a replay of inferno 40 weeks of units killing 120 weeks of haven units but as somebody said thats unfair so whatever.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 01, 2008 01:02 PM |
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@Keep it going samie
@Zwok
You are talking about Deleb not inferno so no point arguing.. Any other hero would be slaughtered by stalkers or sprites, in fact I am not convinced you won't be anyway. This is a weakness almost all factions share, besides lots of tier 1 with lvl 1 town is totally random and not balanced. Hope you did not base your thread on that 
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted July 01, 2008 01:13 PM |
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Not to mention the duels were vs AI..if I am correct. Humans react a lot different then AI's and usually better. Try vs Haggash with flaming balista or a Nur with good skills. (Or heck just about any dungeon or academy with decent skills)
The problem with inferno is, without deleb they are just not very strong. Deleb makes them a lot better, and I mean a LOT.
They are still far from overpowered however, because a humans first target is her balista.
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Message received.
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forest001
Known Hero
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posted July 01, 2008 01:17 PM |
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i'm at work now and will watch the replay later today,
can someone tell me what's going on on that replay?
as i'm very curious about that. is it fair play or just AI abuse?
Thanks.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 01, 2008 01:22 PM |
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He basically uses 6 stacks of 1 imp and one demon and gates while Deleb's ballista does all the work. I think the master gremlins are 4x12 or something.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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forest001
Known Hero
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posted July 01, 2008 01:25 PM |
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Quote:
He basically uses 6 stacks of 1 imp and one demon and gates while Deleb's ballista does all the work. I think the master gremlins are 4x12 or something.
thanks a lot sir.
Truly amazing creeping then!! 
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Zwok
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 01, 2008 01:26 PM |
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Quote:
@Keep it going samie
@Zwok
You are talking about Deleb not inferno so no point arguing.. Any other hero would be slaughtered by stalkers or sprites, in fact I am not convinced you won't be anyway. This is a weakness almost all factions share, besides lots of tier 1 with lvl 1 town is totally random and not balanced. Hope you did not base your thread on that
I'm double confused, first of all in that replay Deleb had Advanced War Machines, grab a chest and a dolmen and you would get War Machines too… at a certain chance. Secondly what do you mean with "lots of tier 1 with lvl 1 town is totally random and not balanced"?? And last when you are talking about Sylvan you are talking about Ossir or Wyngaal, when you are talking about Haven you are talking about Vittorio or Dougal, why should Inferno be different? I'm not convinced that Nymus or Grok would do worse then Deleb. that was just a day one replay but Infernos power isnt any worse in lategame then it is in earlygame. If I would lose 2 more Imps with a different Inferno hero that doesnt mean I would lose, it just means I would have a little more trouble before getting Hellfire or War Machines. In most of the Inferno games I played my hero was Grok, having teleport at level one is just madness in my opinion.
Quote:
Not to mention the duels were vs AI..if I am correct. Humans react a lot different then AI's and usually better. Try vs Haggash with flaming balista or a Nur with good skills. (Or heck just about any dungeon or academy with decent skills)
The problem with inferno is, without deleb they are just not very strong. Deleb makes them a lot better, and I mean a LOT.
They are still far from overpowered however, because a humans first target is her balista.
To be honest the testing I did with 40vs80 and 40vs120 weeks was vs AI but even if it was a human player absoloutly nothing would change. Because #1 I didnt use Deleb, I didnt even have a Ballista only an Ammo Cart. #2 The Imps sucked out all the enemy's mana before he had a turn. #3 The Nightmares decreased morale of enemy Paladins and Archangels so they couldnt get a turn before they were slaughtered by the Fire Hounds. Btw I tryed both battles with and without artifacts. With artifacts Inferno is even better due to Urgash Call set + Pendant of Mastery + morale decreasing stuff.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 01, 2008 01:27 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 13:32, 01 Jul 2008.
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I should mention that he survives with one imp that has 1hp. If the demon had not gated or the gremlins did one more dmg he'd lose. That's effective but as unreliable as it gets.
Edit:
Quote:
And last when you are talking about Sylvan you are talking about Ossir or Wyngaal, when you are talking about Haven you are talking about Vittorio or Dougal, why should Inferno be different? I'm not convinced that Nymus or Grok would do worse then Deleb.
In most of the Inferno games I played my hero was Grok, having teleport at level one is just madness in my opinion.
I mean exactly what I write. Now about the quote: No I am not talking about specific heroes when addressing a faction. If I do I state it clearly. Considering that Deleb won with 1hp it's blatantly obvious that the others would lose and chances are they would not get warmachines from lvl up. Plus they'd have to build blacksmith than something else that sucks.
Grok might have done something but with bad casualties.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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forest001
Known Hero
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posted July 01, 2008 01:35 PM |
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and what is worst he thinks that having human as an opponent doesn't change much.
an surviving with one imp is not reliable at all and it's very very hard to estimate amount of imps before fight, less imps you may lose more you may have more casualties and 6 + 1 means no hidden stack, so not usable at all in real game.
and about 40 vs 120 it's hard to believe for me that 40 weeks hound will one shot 120 weeks of angels or paladins, but meh could care less.
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