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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 17, 2008 12:20 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 12:23, 17 Jul 2008.
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Out of curiosity how many pieces of the set does necro need for banshee howl to consume half initiative?
Edit: Nevermind found it. Sounds like a pretty good deal 
Quote:
Set bonuses for Necromancer
» For 2 items: "Banshee Howl" will now decrease enemy's Morale and Luck by -2 and its Initiative by -20%. Moreover, the use of this ability will only move the Hero 50% backwards along the ATB bar.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Kispagat
Famous Hero
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posted July 17, 2008 12:40 PM |
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I promise to make detailed post, but I cant stand to tell you my toughts.
I had knight set, no Sar-Issus Regalia, only sp +6.
If Elit uses full necro set, game is lost, since with knight set I linked to my hero to my creatures morale, and there could be the chance that my hero moves backward having negative morale.
Banshee howl was the only move, which caused that this will be a long fight. Mass slow has almost same effect, but not decreasing morale, so Lethos comes very fast at the beginning.
On the other hand, I agree that moving forward to my units is not a good decision, but how could Elit know that I dont have meteor shower?
Btw I am very proud of my blackies killing instantly 309 vampire princess on retaliation
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted July 17, 2008 12:49 PM |
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Now it's time to tell everyone who taught you to play dungeon
and heroes in general
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Kispagat
Famous Hero
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posted July 17, 2008 12:58 PM |
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Quote:
Now it's time to tell everyone who taught you to play dungeon
and heroes in general
Everything what I know, comes from my genious mind. No other sources
Name of the masters will be published only if I win Ceasar, so you need to wait.
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kermit
Known Hero
Soul hunter
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posted July 17, 2008 02:08 PM |
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Edited by kermit at 14:11, 17 Jul 2008.
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Can't wait to see that replay, seems like alot of the games involve necro faction.
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Strider_HL
Famous Hero
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posted July 17, 2008 02:18 PM |
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Quote:
Can't wait to see that replay, seems like alot of the games involve necro faction.
There is a link in elit's post.
Well done, Kis! Especially considering that imo it was elit's game... so you deserved it double
I just hope that bulgarian godfather will win couple to keep intrigue up 
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Elit
Famous Hero
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posted July 17, 2008 03:04 PM |
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Banshe 1st turns was right. Moving my units wast mistake because i need to cast 1st mass slow too befor start fight. About arties in begining i have set for use ring -2 moral+ ring -2 luck and Cloak of Death's Shadow+Staff of the Netherworld. But in last minute decide to change 2 from them and put Ring of Lightning Protection+Cloak of Sylanna. How i can know you will set your hero to moral and not meteor
For this i like heroes....here can be alot options and suprises.
So far my main mistake was other but will keep it secret
Now i need to won next game and we will play 2 more. Look imposible for now to won match but you never can be sure 
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Kispagat
Famous Hero
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posted July 17, 2008 03:13 PM |
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Quote:
Banshe 1st turns was right. Moving my units wast mistake because i need to cast 1st mass slow too befor start fight...
I am sorry, but after talking to my master I need to change my mind. Moving your units was ok, since if u dont go out of fireballs range, casualties would be enourmous if my balckies can catch u with 50% defence penalty.
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Towerlord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted July 17, 2008 03:26 PM |
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Quote:
Out of curiosity how many pieces of the set does necro need for banshee howl to consume half initiative?
Edit: Nevermind found it. Sounds like a pretty good deal
Quote:
Set bonuses for Necromancer
» For 2 items: "Banshee Howl" will now decrease enemy's Morale and Luck by -2 and its Initiative by -20%. Moreover, the use of this ability will only move the Hero 50% backwards along the ATB bar.
Hmm ... I don't know about this bonus from necromancer set ... since i played only 2 or 3 Tote games , but it didn't seem to work .
When Deidre casted banshee howl, it took forever since her next turn came, but when she used mass slow , the turn came faster ... that's why I think Mass Slow was the way to go
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Elit
Famous Hero
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posted July 18, 2008 07:08 AM |
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Edited by Elit at 07:46, 18 Jul 2008.
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Quote:
I understand that power creeping are top secret for many players ... But maybe kind, good emperors can post some replays of power creeping, breakthrough ? Creeping is one of most important part of the game, replays of this kind can be very good for improving, learning heroes world ...
Last night we start game n3 with Kispagat. I'm necro/Vladimir vs Inferno/Nebiros. I have very hard creep battle and will post it. Maybe i cant get game from kispagat but at least can kill some AI creatures
http://rapidshare.com/files/130548102/hard.sav
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infinitus
Supreme Hero
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posted July 18, 2008 09:01 AM |
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To Elit
OMG, this replay must begin with words - don't try to repeat this, it's dangerous for your health Thanks very match, i hope not last power creep replay ... Game is in progress ? It is safe to post this before game end ? Kispagat can watch this replay too Replays with suicides are nice to watch too ...
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Nothing's impossible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY
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Elit
Famous Hero
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posted July 18, 2008 09:08 AM |
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Edited by Elit at 09:10, 18 Jul 2008.
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Quote:
To Elit
OMG, this replay must begin with words - don't try to repeat this, it's dangerous for your health Thanks very match, i hope not last power creep replay ... Game is in progress ? It is safe to post this before game end ? Kispagat can watch this replay too Replays with suicides are nice to watch too ...
Hope kispagat will look it and be scared to dead
Yes game is on progres and i need won so badly 
p.s Normaly gaurd need to be lvl 5 ~20 but i have nice luck game to change it to lvl 4 40  I need to kill them for get second wood/ore mine or can go report. So i dont have much options
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Kispagat
Famous Hero
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posted July 18, 2008 11:40 AM |
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Hope kispagat will look it and be scared to dead
Yes game is on progres and i need won so badly
p.s Normaly gaurd need to be lvl 5 ~20 but i have nice luck game to change it to lvl 4 40 I need to kill them for get second wood/ore mine or can go report. So i dont have much options
Nice battle, it seems I was so close to get to the next round. But dont worry, thanks to non sleeping I made so much mistakes, chances are equal also.
Btw I had 19 elder druid on my way to second ore and wood mine, but naturally these bastard riders are worse, at least because their number.
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kermit
Known Hero
Soul hunter
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posted July 18, 2008 12:19 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Can't wait to see that replay, seems like alot of the games involve necro faction.
There is a link in elit's post.
Well done, Kis! Especially considering that imo it was elit's game... so you deserved it double
I just hope that bulgarian godfather will win couple to keep intrigue up
Very nice match, frankly I don't see how Necro could've done better. Loosing 300 princes 1st turn really hurt I think. Dungeon seems far more damaging with it's troops and counters PM perfectly with vampirism.
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Kispagat
Famous Hero
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posted July 18, 2008 04:12 PM |
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Longer edition to our second match:
Forewords:
I was pretty sure that Elit will strike this matchup out. He chose differently, his Haggash vs my Lucretia were gone. It was kindda relief for me, since Elit is the best orc player (I mean he plays orc perfectly ), and with Haggash he can clean his part of the map due to early warpath and snatch combo. And even I saw boots of swift journey, and hoping on early break, Haggash with shatter summoning and dark is a deadly opponent.
In this matchup my only problem was horde of black dragons defending monolith. This monolith leads to paradise, extra levels + resources + spells + gold + hill fort.
Untill day 10 I was on a run, from day 4 creeping went perfectly, no losses. Furies, dragons or evil stalker creeping was too much for neutrals. I even received sp + 6 arti, very much welcome.
I took elemental stockpile, but unfortunatelly it was 5 of each elemantel there. I realized that my economics will stop me for building properly. At the end of week two I managed to build only 2 castle with dragons, third town was with castle but, no dragons.
Lvl 7 creatures play always key part to counter against necro. Blackies are perfect for this, since antimagic makes other hero helpless against them.
My skilling was perfect also in first 11 days. I got early warpath, destructive, sorcery (with the aid of two sircery hut), enlightment and dark, all went ok.
But from day 11 bad luck came. I could get fiery wrath instead of ignite. I hoped that shrug of darkness may cause some difficulty, but never got it. No sign of arcane intiution (for a possible swift mind later)
I went down, get rid of wraiths. I took utopia, received quite poor arties, but ring of sar issus was perfect for me.
I realized on week 3 day 1 that Elit already took utopia and he has at least one day advantage. I saw book of light in one artie shop, ring of speed (20%) in the other. I was wondering if I coud beat blackies with full army and book of light, but resurrection is pathethic without light skill, and I can not uphold blackies to gain time for regeneration.
So having no other option I attacked blakies three times, spending 3 days with it.
At first attack I managed to forget to put in ring of speed, so only 3 stalkers could go invisible, and what was more important, two blackies could move, so my fireball could reach only one of them. Summary: Only 12 dragons went to abyss.
Second try was much better, 34 died in the wall of fire and fireball.
Third try opened the road to heaven. I collected what I could, and another diificult decision was to make. Will Elit attack or not? I knew he broke above, since sim turn ended, but will he come directly to my capitol? Having warpath, from the garrison, he could catch my capitol in 1.5 turns if I go too far away. I did not have town portal, since I was preparing to an assault, spending all my resources to creatures and upgrades.
I hoped that he will not attack,and try to drag the game, securing his advantage, because my destructive magic looses its effectivity week by week. Anyway, I was not ready to fight on week 3.
Now I know, that he decided to take underground tunnels instead.
After I visited the hospitality of the little islands I moved downstairs, hoping to get extra sp + knowledge from libraries.
At the end of week 3 I realized that I overestimated my sulfur deposit, so I could not build dragons in the third castle. Bad sign.
Elit was too fast, he broke garrison downstairs also. I also attacked the garrison with 4 stalkers, to weaken it, no real chance of success, and fleed (as Elit said "quick town portal", but I would say costy town portal)
On week 4 day 3 I also needed to make a decision. It must be true that week 4 is PERFECT for dungeon to attack. Destructive has relevant power, and also my army has massive output.
But I felt that I dont have very good arties. What I had is two piece of knight set, Phoenix Feather Cape, ring of speed, and two piece of Sar Issus regalia. What I missed so much is one-two pieces from necro set. No sign of them, I have not found them, and I could not buy them in artie merchants.
The other reason was maybe more relevant. I will get 10 lvl 7 from week 4. Blackies are surely one of the strongest guys around, and necro 's lvl 7 is poor. So delaying my assault with one week looked to be not so bad idea.
I planned my next moves, and I realized, that I could break above, and I could break downstairs,and control 7 artimerchants at the end of week 4. Or I can rush to his castle.
I chose option 1. With the help of book of light and with the army strenght in week 4 breaking was piece of cake.
I have found on last day of week 4 the last piece of knight set. I was very happy about that. In the other hand, in early days of week 5 I checked all 7 artishops, and THERE WERE NO USEFUL ARTIES AT ALL. No sign of necro set still. This fact really disappointed me.
I spent some extra days underground to get some more stats.
Meanwhile Elit seemed to be disappeared. I had no idea what is he doing for a week. This was a horror for me. I had no clue.
I estimated my next moves, and realized that I could not reach Elit by the end of week 5. So I changed my plans and visited my friend, the mentor. He screwed me with 20000, getting only one useful skill there. Thanks, Mr. Bastard Mentor.
I went home, and decided to attack on week 6, no more hesitation allowed. I sold all my useless arties, bought the creatures focusing on blackies and hydras, and go.
I felt that I should loose the battle, since necro set may decrease my luck and morale, banshe howl also, and there might be a ring to decrease them too. And with artie set I get empathy, so in case of bad morale my hero could move backward. My plan was to cast vampirism this case, but I guess I would loose that anyway.
On my way to Elits capital I collected all luck and morale what I could.
Naturally a hero attack before Deirde came, took away these extra ones, so I was preparing to die.
Then she came...
The battle - same as the whole game - was played late nite, 2 AM. Its sure that both sides made mistakes. At the first moment I tought there is a chance when my furies killed 10 spectrals, when vampires destroyed themselves I was more optimistic. After Deirdre casted banshe howl, and 1 morale and 1 luck remained, I was confident to win the fight.
Rest you know.
The result is 2-0, we are playing Vladimr vs Deleb now. Elit has Vladimir, and it looks to me that we both had losses.
I hope I satisfied the requirement of a detailed post.
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Strider_HL
Famous Hero
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posted July 18, 2008 04:49 PM |
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Quote:
I hope I satisfied the requirement of a detailed post.
Indeed This is the perfect example of elaborate report that both provides insight into strategic decisions by emperor as well as depicts heroes as fascinating adventure many newbies would like to embark on
Hopefully, the rest of game reports will follow this path from BOTH players
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fiur
Promising
Supreme Hero
Map Creator
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posted July 18, 2008 05:28 PM |
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Kispagat ! just amazing.... thats a kind of a game report I really enjoy reading!
the best final report so far by great!
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Elit
Famous Hero
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posted July 20, 2008 07:25 AM |
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Edited by Elit at 07:33, 20 Jul 2008.
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Last night we end game n3 with Kispagat. I was Nerco/Valadimir vs Inferno/Deleb. He won game Best comment what i can give for game is simple "WTF stupid game" but i know Fiur and all other will be happy from more details
Game start not so bad on day 1. I have for main Vladimir and monolit is guarded from cyclopes. So i say to myself "i need only pupet or bird to kill them easy". In mage guild i have "Fist of Wrath" and slow. Not "Fire Trap" or dmg spels. Its was bad because "Fire Trap" are very useful for early creeping. So i start game on day 2 get both my towns. Day 3 i get all mines with main and second hero.Day 4 i send Vladimir to go clear road for second wood/ore mines. On day 7 i see my guard for Stair is changed from lvl 5 (20) to lvl 4. Its was realy bad news because if i cant get second mines game is over but guard was 40 Grim Raider. I decide fear or not need kill them so just attack Here is replay from battle->http://rapidshare.com/files/130548102/hard.sav
After succes kill guard and get mines my main job was to up lvls with Vldimir because i didunt have dark magic. I wanted to up dark and learn spels from town befor get utopia. In short on on lvl 17 game not offer me dark maic I have alredy expert Sumon ...but not "Phoenix" in mage guild too. So week 3 day 1 i go to kill utopia garison with almost no spels. Only i have somon elementals from skill what i up-->Fire warriors. Battle was danger and i can easy die. Here is replay from kiling utopia guard-->http://rapidshare.com/files/131025515/Hard2.sav
After kill gaurd i get utopia. In short its was zero utopia and give me: Cloak of Death's Shadow,Dragon Talon Crown,Moonblade,Dragon Eye Ring. I learn from utopia+Golems: Vampirism,Armageddon,Implosion. My hero was alredy 19lvl and he have advance dark !!! Cant believe game offer me it
So from utopia i go to kill guard on monolit. I didunt have mass slow or Phoenix, but i was sure will kill "stupid" cyclopes easy. Its replay from battle-->http://rapidshare.com/files/131025517/Monolit.sav
After killing monolit i epxect to find in magic shops Pupet or Phoenix but i didun find them...not blind spel too
I start think game is doing bad jokes with me...but i have very good build and my main hero have alredy expert dark+mass slow. So i decide do not worry for miss important spels and rush guard. I buy all my army and attack garison. Here is replay from breack my side-->http://rapidshare.com/files/131025516/Garison1.sav
Just befor breack, game go in turn mode and i get 1 free turn. Its help me alot so i clear all in midle for 1 turn. Utopia was guarded from Read dragons. Its very hard for kill and when you dont have pupet/blind/Phoenix is easy to loss battle...but need spels so decide to risk and attack gaurd for get utopia. Here is replay from killing read dragons-->http://rapidshare.com/files/131025519/UtopiaGuard.sav
Utopia didunt give me pupet/blind/Phoenix...but i get tome sumon. Arts in midle was very crap too-->Horn of Plenty,Tome of Destruction Magic,Evercold Icicle.
I missed few important spels but my hero have alot better stats from Kispagat and i have more army so decide to kill his garison and rush him. Its reaply from killing second garison-->http://rapidshare.com/files/131025518/Secondgarison.sav
On day 7 week 3 Vladimir was to main town Kispagat. I go to his island 1st to chek his spels shops. What suprise but here not again pupet/Phoenix. For this i say regular "i'm very unlucky". Nevermind it i decide to attack Kispagat in his main town. I have more army better stats and its look like sure won for me...but game was decide to give him won nevermind how well i will play and how much will try to change it. In short all what kis have is "Sandro's Cloak" I didunt have mass decay or dmg spels. Not pupet so i loss battle very stupid.Here is replay-->http://rapidshare.com/files/131025520/Elit_Kispagat19_07.sav
So far Kispagat did his battle very well but its not change big picture. Game give all posible craps to me and i loss perfect play game for noting.
Now match is over Kispagat won it. Grats and gl in next match.
p.s.
Hoppe all will enjoy this detail report
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Kispagat
Famous Hero
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posted July 20, 2008 09:31 AM |
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Other side of the game:
On day 2 I had advanced log and pathfinding. I needed warpath badly, because I knew that necro rush is Elit's only chance, because of lack of lvl 7 for necro in hg.
I was happy about the matchup (vladimir vs Deleb). In my mind inferno is very strong in battles, but in HG really problem is to break with inferno. Knowing that death will come as soos as possible, its not that big issue, breaking is his duty.
My plan was tripple ballista, attack, light magic, dark magic, and logs. I needed dark also, since I had seraphs at my monolith, and its always important to cast a blind to conjured phoenix, if needed.
Inferno is super attacking faction, so I hoped that high initiative and high attack will decide, and he needs to take care of my ballista too..
On day 3 I realized I could not take mines, cuz I was too weak for that. I risked only most important sulfur and mercury. Creeping went ok with Deleb, just I could not get warpath. No ballista. On the other hand I got light magic (chance is 2%)
I invested to resource silos. It leaded to financial trouble. I was unlucky neither of campfires gave me sulfur, so I was not able to build hell chargers in all three towns. After building mage guilds everywhere I realized that I dont have slow or haste at all. To summarize the case in week 2 I felt hopeless. Lack of warpath slows me, no ballista makes me weak, and without my tank unit, hell chargers, I can not really fight.
The picture did not change so much. On week two I was not able to build only one castle and two citadels. I could not build hell chargers in town 3, I was thinking to ask Elit to send me some sulfur.
But I found ring of speed (20%). without haste and slow, and without the skill master of mind, master of wraith, it gives some chances. I could not do other, but upgrade to firehounds, and upgrade succubus and attack wraiths and utopia. The battle went perfectly and very slowly, some minor losses. Utopia gave me what I need, another ring of speed (10%), book of dark (slow finally). Slowly my skills begin to be cool. On lvl 20 (!), 4 days before game ended I got warpath. Master of mind was finally offered, naturally together with ballista. I chose first, beacuse I have found in my arti shop THE ARTIFACT.
If anyone need to write a book, about how to beat necro, the main line will be:
GET SANDRO'S CLOAK and LEARN DARK MAGIC.
I gave 20K to Sandro with a smile on my face.
I ran up, get rid of seraphs, and took islands with a silly loss of 22 firehound. No resurrection in the shops, so I had only few light magic spells, without haste.
I went to collect some extra attack and def, and suddenly sim turn ended, giving extra turn to Elit. Looking at the armies, stats, I decided a town sitting, hoping that my succubies and hero mastered by Sandro will do the job.
.....
I am very happy to win, and move to the next round. Generally on these games:
I think weaker player won. Elit did amazing things, breaking with orc on week 3 is incredible for me still. He played 99% perfectly, but in first two games, he made mistakes preparing to final battles, or in final batttles.
In third game the matchup was in my favour. Also Sandro helped me a lot.
Now its time to rest, and wait who comes next...
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infinitus
Supreme Hero
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posted July 20, 2008 09:56 AM |
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Thanks Elite, Kispagat for this very detailed game report... This open a new era for TOH history records ! Elite report compared to other reports it's like transition from radio emission to TV emission, creeping replays and replays of final battle make big difference... Very valuable learning, educative material for new generation of players. By doing this you get, i hope, even more students, hope they not all beat the professor Elite like Kispagat doo Thanks once more for this Elite, you are the hero of the day !
____________
Nothing's impossible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY
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