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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted March 15, 2010 01:35 AM |
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Okay my boys, let's resume.
***
Azagal:
Sprint
It could work without the defense penalty to screw the unit over; it's already circumstantial. Nice feature.
Creativity: 10
Realism: 6
= 16
High Ground
Lesser etherealness 
I guess this works, though I'd prefer a defense bonus over a miss chance, but maybe that's my personal bias coming in.
Creativity: 8
Realism: 8
= 16
Fauch:
Strategist
I don't know how this would function unless it applies to both sides. So if you move 5.50 squares, and the enemy stack is 4.50 squares away, do they have to move 4 or 5 in order to attack your stack? Can you move until you're 0.5 squares from the target and then attack? But then the enemy can't? I'm not sure where the advantage in this is.
Creativity: 5
Realism: 5
= 10
Swift Strike
You're going too far by including spells. That belongs under Sorcery (or Magic Support  ) This perk adds countless options to what you can do. In fact I think it's kind of imba. You could deal half damage to an enemy and then move to block a ranged unit. You could deal half damage to a unit and then block off another one. You could do all sorts of great stuff.
Creativity: 10
Realism: 6
= 16
JollyJoker:
Mountaineering
Makes you also wonder where the Forestry skill is  . This could really open up a lot of avenues on the adventure map, so I'm glad Maneuverability requires Logistics so you wouldn't be moving over mountains at a really low level. Given the massive movement penalty, I think I'm okay with this, except for the problem that you would need to reintroduce mobile neutral monsters (like in H4) so you couldn't take the backdoor route to get free goodies.
Creativity: 10
Realism: 7
= 17
Agility
Meh, I guess it's practical. I kind of wish it was excluded for the first turn though.
Creativity: 6
Realism: 9
= 15
Berny-Mac:
Terrain Cover
Very nice and suiting, although it belongs better as an advanced perk over a basic one, simply because of how powerful it could be. Something like this definitely belongs under Maneuverability.
Creativity: 10
Realism: 8
= 18
Ambush!
If you combine this perk with your Terrain Cover perk, it could be extremely lame, but by itself it's still okay. I think the bonus only ought to apply when you move outside the obstacle (as a rush), otherwise you could just camp out in the obstacles and force the stacks adjacent to you to never get to retaliate.
Creativity: 8
Realism: 6
=14
Jikiri:
Skirmish:
Not creative? Nonsense. This is a great perk, except I think it's a bit imba once you have Expert Maneuverability, though I do like the prospect of a perk becoming more powerful as you gain mastery in the skill it belongs to. An entire army being able to move through each other with a basic perk is too useful; I'd rather it just give the full benefits to all small creatures. Also, the name doesn't make much sense with the ability.
Creativity: 10
Realism: 7
= 17
Cover Tactics:
Ehh, I love this idea, but it's far too strong for a basic perk. With the right units you could really rape your opponent hard with this.
Creativity: 10
Realism: 4
= 14
Arcax:
Setting Camp
This perk is borderline ultimate potential for some of the bonuses. +5 attack and defense plus +4 light spellpower? Wow. Way too much power in here, granted you have to waste a turn, but still.
Creativity: 7
Realism: 2
= 9
Mamgaeater:
Breathing Room.
This is fun just in terms of the strategy, but there's no practicality to it. Why would the extra territory on the battlefield automatically be all small obstacles? I would have preferred for it to just be the opposite of tactics: one extra tile back for your army.
Creativity: 10
Realism: 6
= 16
Flush Out
Exceedingly too circumstantial. This would only apply if you're fighting a hero, and if the hero has Maneuverability, and even then it might not end up coming into use.
Creativity: 6
Realism: 3
= 9
Mytical:
Tactical Combat
lol Mytical, your description is FUBAR  , so I'm glad you threw in an example for me to get the meaning.
I like this perk, it has mojo, except for two minor complaints. 1: I think the name is too broad for the ability. 2: I think you should put some kind of cap on the bonus just so it doesn't get out of control in extreme scenarios (gang banging slowed zombies and such). This perk would fit under Attack, but I can actually also buy it as a Maneuverability perk since I envision the bonus coming from flanking the target to death.
Creativity: 9
Realism: 8
= 17
***
FINAL SCORES:
Azagal:
34
32
=66
Jikiri:
33
31
=64
Berny-mac:
30
32
=62
Fauch:
33
26
=59
Mamgaeater:
25
25
=50
JollyJoker:
17
32
=49
Mytical:
15
17
=32
Arcax:
16
9
=25
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted March 15, 2010 03:32 AM |
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Round 26:
Create 2 basic perks for the Agility skill, as seen below:
Quote:
Basic Agility
Friendly shooter damage is increased by 7% and enemy shooter damage is decreased by 7%.
Advanced Agility
Friendly shooter damage is increased by 14% and enemy shooter damage is decreased by 14%.
Expert Agility
Friendly shooter damage is increased by 21% and enemy shooter damage is decreased by 21%.
Your perks must be universal for all factions and require only Basic Agility.
Deadline is in the springtime of March 21st 
____________
"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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VokialBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted March 15, 2010 06:48 AM |
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Edited by VokialBG at 19:34, 15 Mar 2010.
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Joint attack
When two (or more) shooter stacks are placed one to another, and one of them use ranged attack against enemy unit, the other one automatcly shoot at the same target doing 25% of it's damage.
Cat's reflex
There is 25% chance that your unit will "retaliate" before the enemy stack hit it.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 15, 2010 10:57 AM |
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Covering Fire
If an enemy unit attacks a friendly unit standing (at least partly for big units) on one of the up to three (4 for BIG shooters like Liches) squares in front of one or more ranged units, those ranged units are allowed to give covering fire, before the attack commences.
Damage is computed normally, execpt that it is multiplied with the percentage of intiative the ranged unit has when giving covering fire. The initiative of the ranged unit is set to 0 after giving covering fire.
In practise this means, that the covering fire effect will be negligible for a ranged unit that just fired, but massive for a ranged unit who can act soon.
Note, that this ability will work quite well immediately at start of a battle - fast attackers like Green Dragons, Cerberi, Nightmares, Paladins and so on, who immediately attack a unit backed by a shooter will suffer a volley before they can actually attack.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 15, 2010 12:02 PM |
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Invisible thief
The hero may spend half of his initiative to steal ammo from an enemy stack and then give it to a friendly stack
the amount of ammo stolen is equal to (hero level - enemy creature level) / 3
it is also possible to steal an ammo cart even if you already have one.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted March 15, 2010 06:38 PM |
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My scores for last round. I pretty much agree with Blizzie on most points. A couple of very creative perks for me here, that really opens some tactical options in the game - me like.
Azagal
Sprint
I really like this perk. Take some, give some. Strategical elements, instead of making yourself vulnerable by moving forward, you get to stay home safe, and might still move across next turn. Perfect for mid-speed units (speed 6-8). Perhaps too powerful for a basic perk, however?
Creativity: 10
Realism: 8
High Ground
Goes pretty well with the theme of the skill, and obviously is useful. I also guess it pretty well defines a branch within the skill, for defensive forcus. I think perhaps 33 % is a bit high for something that can't be countered and comes passively with the skill - perhaps 25 % or 20 % would be more fair, or simply a damage reduction or defence bonus.
Creativity: 9
Realism: 7
Fauch
Strategist
I guess this perk could work, but the usefulness seems very limited to me. Of course, there are some things like effects that spread from creature to creature (i.e. Thane attack) that can be countered, so against Dwarves or Barbarians it might have a wider user - but generally, it seems to narrow for a basic perk to me.
Creativity: 7
Realism: 6
Swift Strike
That is actually a very clever idea. At first I thought it wouldn't be that good, but then I realised this is brilliant all the time you just have to take down a small stack and don't need to use your full turn. Opens a lot of very useful strategic options.
Creativity: 10
Realism: 10
JollyJoker
Mountaineering
This is simply a no-go for me. It's a gamebreaker in the bad sense in that it renders map structure useless, which can mean nothing or everything on the map. Therefore, like skills that make heroes fly, I don't approve of this suggestion.
Creativity: 6
Realism: 1
Agility
While there's nothing wrong with the perk, it's not very suitable for a basic perk. Also doesn't exactly take me back with creativity.
Creativity: 5
Realism: 5
Berny-Mac
Terrain Cover
Quite similar to Azagals skill. Not quite sure I find the name to make sense - if you stand ON the obstacle, you should be MORE visible rather than standing behind it. I think a skill that makes units take cover from ranged attacks would be wonderful btw.
Creativity: 6
Realism: 8
Ambush
Nice offensive perk, goes well with the skill in general and the other perk also. Pretty powerful, however.
Creativity: 8
Realism: 8
Jiriki9
Skirmish
This is an excellent perk! very creative, and goes well with the theme of the skill. Strategic and useful.
Creativity: 10
Realism: 10
Cover Tactics
I get the first part of the skill, but to allow placement with 5 squares further - does that mean you can cover 5 rows more, i.e. a total of 7 rows on battlefield? That's more than half the battlefield and seems unrealistic. Or do you just mean you can only use a maximum of 5 tiles in the third row? It's unclear to me. The idea is reasonable, but lacks detail in the explanation.
Creativity: 8
Realism: 5
Arcax
Setting Camp
I'm a bit divided on this perk. I think the idea of granting an option at start of combat is very good, and some of the suggestions you come up with are really excellent. In some ways, this could be a whole skill in itself. Where I'm not so excited is the "have to spend a whole day without movement" part. How often will you actually bother to use this perk - or have a reasonable setup? But perhaps it could work if enemy hero comes fairly close to you, and you think he'll attack you after your turn, and you'll take on the fight rather than try to escape. Some of the "other terrain" bonuses seem better than the native terrain ones (particularl Inferno!).
Creativity: 9
Realism: 7
Mamgaeater
Breathing Room
Well - but even if you're standing on an obstacle, you can still be targeted, right? So there wouldn't be a lot of point in this skill as I see it - except for making the battlefield larger, which can have a good value, of course.
Creativity: 6
Realism: 4
Flush Out
Ha ha the name is funny. It's a good skill, let's you counter Manuverability from the enemy. Perhaps a bit narrow in it's application in that it can ONLY be used against an enemy hero who has that skill?
Creativity: 9
Realism: 6
Mytical
Tactical Combat
Ok, seems like a decent perk. The link to the overall skill is not super strong, but I guess it could work. Seems reasonably balanced and also fairly useful when you want to take out a particular stack.
Creativity: 7
Realism: 8
____________
What will happen now?
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 15, 2010 07:07 PM |
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Quote:
JollyJoker
Mountaineering
This is simply a no-go for me. It's a gamebreaker in the bad sense in that it renders map structure useless, which can mean nothing or everything on the map. Therefore, like skills that make heroes fly, I don't approve of this suggestion.
Creativity: 6
Realism: 1
Agility
While there's nothing wrong with the perk, it's not very suitable for a basic perk. Also doesn't exactly take me back with creativity.
Creativity: 5
Realism: 5
I can take a beating, but the beating for Mountaineering is a bit silly - a map maker can make terrain unpassable with other things than mountains, don't you think? This perk is basically like the Navigation perk - useless without water (and even then it depend)/mountains.
For agility, again I have no problem with the judgement in terms of points: it ISN'T creative. But not suitable as a basic perk? Umm, Battle Frenzy? AND you need another skill for it as well? What exactly isn't suitable for a basic perk?
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Arcax
Promising
Famous Hero
Its quite hot inside...
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posted March 15, 2010 10:05 PM |
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@Alci Waiting for an input of creatures at the sixth or seventh day, while you have nothing interesting to do due to small army etc, is quite common - thats what came into my mind after finishing the perk. Anyway thank you for the score  <hates B'boy>
____________
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 15, 2010 10:38 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 22:51, 15 Mar 2010.
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Precision
Your shooters gain the no range penalty ability and ignore castle walls if they wait before shooting (so you need to use 1.5 turn to shoot without penalty)
it works on cyclops too, which could be attractive given that they have massive range penalty (they still suffer a penalty of half the damage, because of the goblin thrower ability itself.
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted March 15, 2010 11:11 PM |
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Quote:
<hates B'boy>
That's the best part of being the judge, except I wouldn't get away with screwing over everybody.
____________
"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Arcax
Promising
Famous Hero
Its quite hot inside...
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posted March 15, 2010 11:45 PM |
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Edited by Arcax at 00:13, 16 Mar 2010.
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@Blizzard B The imbalance of a small feature equals a very low score.
Anyway :
Safe position
Moving a shooter only takes half of turn.
Clear vision
Your shooters are immune to blind and, as Fauch mentioned, confusion spells.
____________
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 16, 2010 12:11 AM |
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clear vision seems extremly situationnal. forgetfulness seemed a logical choice also.
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Arcax
Promising
Famous Hero
Its quite hot inside...
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posted March 16, 2010 12:15 AM |
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Iceman kinda derailed me ugh. Fix'd
____________
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted March 16, 2010 12:46 AM |
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In all seriousness I have some major beef with all of it, I wasn't just being sadistic. I only pointed out the first bonus with Haven as an example.
____________
"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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mamgaeater
Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
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posted March 16, 2010 01:36 AM |
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Archer's Bane - agility
prereqs - none
Shooters only spend 85% of their initiative if they attack a shooter or caster.
Parthian Tactics - agility
prereqs -
Shooters can move and shoot on the same turn. but if they do the damage they deal is reduced by 60%.
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Protection From Everything.
dota
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted March 16, 2010 05:18 AM |
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Battle Training
Reduces the 'melee penalty' that some shooters face depending on if the hero has Basic, Advanced, or Expert Agility. The normal 50% damage penalty for melee attacks is reduced to 25%(basic), 10% (Advanced), or do full damage (Expert).
Sniper Training
Thanks to the increased hand eye coordination that comes with Agility, ranged attackers can overcome some of the penalties they face for obsticles or distance. The normal 50% damage penalty for obstacles (even castle walls) or distance is reduced to 25%(Basic), 10% Advanced, or full damage (Expert)
____________
Message received.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted March 16, 2010 04:01 PM |
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Quote:
I can take a beating, but the beating for Mountaineering is a bit silly - a map maker can make terrain unpassable with other things than mountains, don't you think? This perk is basically like the Navigation perk - useless without water (and even then it depend)/mountains.
No, not really. When a map maker places a mountain range, he does it because he wants a barrier. Of course, there are lots of different barriers, so there's also an element of eye candy involved here, but the point is that the (good) mapmaker has a point with placing the mountain where it is. If you can suddenly neglect this effect with one perk, either the mapmaking becomes pointless, or the map maker will have to leave out mountains from the map if he wants to keep control with the map (which will make the perk useless).
Quote:
For agility, again I have no problem with the judgement in terms of points: it ISN'T creative. But not suitable as a basic perk? Umm, Battle Frenzy? AND you need another skill for it as well? What exactly isn't suitable for a basic perk?
True, you are right Battle Frenzy is an exception, I did not have that one in mind. I had the association to all the "+2 skill" perks which are all in second circle. I guess you can say that your's makes sense in that it co-operates with the original skill just like Battle Frenzy indeed does.
____________
What will happen now?
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted March 16, 2010 09:00 PM |
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Final scores from last round posted.
____________
"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted March 17, 2010 12:10 PM |
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Quote:
Cover Tactics
I get the first part of the skill, but to allow placement with 5 squares further - does that mean you can cover 5 rows more, i.e. a total of 7 rows on battlefield? That's more than half the battlefield and seems unrealistic. Or do you just mean you can only use a maximum of 5 tiles in the third row? It's unclear to me. The idea is reasonable, but lacks detail in the explanation.
It's hard to explain such a complex idea in a language that's not your mother tongue...
I thought of a battlefield having about 20 tiles total and you can finally (possibly!) reach into up to the 7th line (8th with tactics!), BUT ONLY when there are obstacles, only with those creatures who could move through those and only ON those obstacles. So it's a bit luck in there.
For Blizzard boys about that it's a basic Perk: But Maneuvaribility ALONE needs a whole skill on expert level, I put that in, too...
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted March 18, 2010 04:53 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 16:54, 18 Mar 2010.
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Keen Eye
The Shooters range is increased by +1 tile. Units who already have no range penalty don't benefit from this spell in any way.
Supression fire
Units under fire of enemy shooters will slow in their advance. For every shot fired at them they will lose -1 speed. The penalty will be lifted once the shooer targets another stack. The penalty is capped at -3 speed.
The perks aren't finished this is just something like a sketch so that the basic idea is outlined before someone else posts it .
____________
"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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This thread is pages long: 
