|
|
antipaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
|
posted November 28, 2008 04:03 PM |
|
|
Suicide?
Let me tell you what i think of it,
I had my share of bad stuff happend and it did cross my mind but i wouldn't do it
for one it would be like running away from the issue and not solving it,a coward's choice.
And second i couldn't imagine my loved once suffer even more because of it. so i didn't do it.
____________
types in obscure english
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted November 28, 2008 06:36 PM |
|
|
Quote:
True every tribe developed at least some sort of religion.
But not all of those ever developed greater culture. Religion might also be the wrong word at that time. It was a way for explaining the unknown. Often called magic by histury professors. We call explaining something completely different nowadays, we call it science.
I think what mattered more was the simple reason of making better life for your kids and yourself than religion. I could almost go as far as to say religion hindered progress. If you don't think dieing is for the worse then why bother trying to change it?
But belief in afterlife helped deal with pain with losing someone dear.
Like it still does.
Well, the thing is that in religions an afterlife isn't granted automatically. You need to lead a certain kind of life to be eligible for an afterlife. All main religions and those of others as well "ban" suicide, so there is no danger that people forego their life in favor of the afterlife.
|
|
JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
|
|
posted November 28, 2008 06:48 PM |
|
|
Ah so your point was that people would have suicided a lot more in the ancient history if there was no religion? I took it way offtopic then. Sorry 'bout that.
BTW. Shinto doesn't ban suicide. It actually encourages that.
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted November 28, 2008 07:06 PM |
|
|
The only suicide shinto encourages is seppuku, and that is only to avoid the dishonor of getting into the hands of enemy, or as a form of punishment.
So no, I guess punishment isn't something good 
Yeah I am aware that after seppuku the suicide was cleared of blame and that it was a ceremonial thing. Still..
____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted November 28, 2008 07:07 PM |
|
|
Well, no.
My point is that religion was no hindrance since they took "precautions", if you want to.
They basically say if you do "fine" (with "fine" being different depending on religion or belief), you'll "earn" a place in some "other" realm.
Works quite well, actually.
Now, one thing is clear - reality is not what it seems to us, which leaves a lot of possibilities.
If you think about how much information you can store with crappy data machines unable to "understand" the concept of irrational numbers, I'm pretty sure that a higher dimensional system will have no problem storing "copies" of us. Sure enough, I see a reasonable chance that our life here could just be a very advanced kind of simulation game. SimLife on a very advanced level - the most real simulation ever.
A reboot after death may seem not so far-fetched.
In any case I don't see 100% for no afterlife, not by any stretch of imagination.
|
|
Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
|
|
posted November 28, 2008 07:18 PM |
|
|
Quote:
for one it would be like running away from the issue and not solving it,a coward's choice.
What if the issue is not solvable? I mean, that's mostly why suicides happen - because they think it's impossible to have a 'good' life.
____________
|
|
JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
|
|
posted November 28, 2008 07:19 PM |
|
Edited by JoonasTo at 19:21, 28 Nov 2008.
|
What I meant with religion hindering progress was that they wouldn't care improving life on earth because they are going to a paradise anyway. Why should they try to make life better here if that's the case? If they didn't think that however they would surely try their best to make life better here.
So you're saying they could have created this universe?
Well no one can prove you wrong. Start a religion. One more for Doomforge.
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
|
|
Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
|
|
posted November 28, 2008 07:21 PM |
|
|
Well some religions encourage you to make your life better here and live to its full potential, since otherwise you arrive in Hell or something similar (as far as I know, suicide is a sin).
____________
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted November 28, 2008 07:26 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Why should they try to make life better here if that's the case?
On the other hand (religion for example discourages selfishness), selfish people have no reason to make it better if it doesn't impact a lot in their lifetime and don't need to think about the future at all, especially since they will "not exist".
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted November 28, 2008 07:32 PM |
|
|
If they don't think that it'll have an impact in their lifetime, then they're probably wrong. (Plus, there are emotional benefits. But you claim that they don't exist.)
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
|
|
posted November 28, 2008 07:37 PM |
|
|
According to most religions asketismn is the favoured way of life. Is that living life to it's full potential Ash?
Face it Death, selfish people are those who advance things. If everyone was a Jesus we'd still be living in huts eating raw fish. And people are most unselfish in backwater cultures, coincidence? I think not. Selfishness encourages competition and competition is what brings progress.
Whatever you say about selfish people they do care for how their kids life will be. They care a lot.
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted November 28, 2008 07:48 PM |
|
|
Quote:
According to most religions asketismn is the favoured way of life.
If I remember correctly, you were against using "most" as a good substitute for "main" 
and besides, which do promote asceticism?
____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
|
|
Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
|
|
posted November 28, 2008 07:49 PM |
|
Edited by Asheera at 19:50, 28 Nov 2008.
|
Quote:
According to most religions asketismn is the favoured way of life. Is that living life to it's full potential Ash?
Obviously I'm not talking about those that follow the Bible (or whatever there is in different religions) word by word, but at least religion encourages you to not make any grave sins, such as killing innocents.
____________
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted November 28, 2008 07:50 PM |
|
Edited by TheDeath at 19:53, 28 Nov 2008.
|
Quote:
Face it Death, selfish people are those who advance things.
Yeah and nuke each other...
Quote:
If everyone was a Jesus we'd still be living in huts eating raw fish. And people are most unselfish in backwater cultures, coincidence? I think not. Selfishness encourages competition and competition is what brings progress.
Progress in what? In our mentalities? I think we are a lot worse now than back then, if you get what I mean. No wonder we nuke ourselves and all that like it's nothing. Cause our mentalities downgraded, it's the cost we have to pay.
Give me a good person with nothing rather than a cyborg who wants to kill me or feels no emotions any day 
Quote:
Is that living life to it's full potential Ash?
Depending on point of view, junkies can't understand how others don't like to get drugs to "fill" their lives -- but you have to get out of drugs if you want to discover other beauties and happiness, not just pleasures. Some even consider math such a beauty 
pleasure =/= happiness
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted November 28, 2008 07:56 PM |
|
|
Bible does not promote asceticism.
____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
|
|
JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
|
|
posted November 28, 2008 08:10 PM |
|
|
True DF. I am.
Christianity, Islam, Buddhishm at least.
True religion usually invokes one not to harm others. But you don't need religion for that. Other people don't usually look good a you if you do that. 
Americans and Japanese both were highly religious at that time. Didn't stop them from nuking.
We are not. Our mentalities have progressed a great deal, you are romantising the old times. But I was mainly talking about technological and cultural progress.
Cyborg or a murderer. Those things have nothing to do with selfishness.
Those math people are just crazy.
Agreed. Happiness can be achieved by other means too.
Bible does promote asketism. Jesus, desert, Moses, desert, whole jew people, desert...
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted November 28, 2008 08:13 PM |
|
|
Bible does not promote asceticism. It promotes modesty. It's a HUGE difference. Asceticism means rejecting every possible mean of convenience and pleasure. There is nothing like that in the old book.
Dunno about Islam, but I guess it works in a similar way.
____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted November 28, 2008 08:32 PM |
|
|
"Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?" (Matthew 19:27)
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted November 28, 2008 08:37 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Americans and Japanese both were highly religious at that time. Didn't stop them from nuking.
??? I thought you were talking about Jesus 
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
|
DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
|
|
posted November 28, 2008 08:38 PM |
|
|
What was the answer?
Because Peter just said: "we left everything behind, great man, what do we get in return?" I believe the apostles were wrong at times. In fact, one of them hunted down jewish people (in the past).
also,
Quote:
I find it kind of funny, though. All this materialistic wealth, and still we are depressed
I think depression is the burden of materialistic welth. People are bored. I think if we no longer were the higher species, we'd get rid of all depressions, because people would just simply stop bickering about 'what she said' and 'my heart is pit (etc. etc.)'. We'd be like: "wow, I survived yet another day. AWESOME!"
Yes, the world would look more like azagal and would be better for it.
Now, what was the point of quoting you?
ehhh...
Wait...
You're kinda sadistic, lith
By the way, a depression can be an actual illnes...
____________
If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
|
|
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
