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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted November 27, 2008 07:54 PM |
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Quote:
I don't think meny people fear death. It's DYING most people are afraid of.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted November 27, 2008 07:56 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
I don't even pretend to understand what it could be like to live in continuous agony, misery and suffering.
Agony is the only thing that you can't stop from those. Misery and suffering is all about yourself.
Your point is what? My choice of words were a bit randomly chosen, but torment and pain seem no better. "Unbearable" might be good.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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doomnezeu
Supreme Hero
Miaumiaumiau
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posted November 27, 2008 07:58 PM |
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Quote:
I don't think meny people fear death. It's DYING most people are afraid of.
It's not the fall that hurts, it is the sudden stop at the bottom 
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted November 27, 2008 07:59 PM |
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Quote:
I don't think meny people fear death.
Apart from being eaten and buried alive, I think the most natural human fear is the unknown, especially in this day and age where we want absolute certainties. So I can believe that humans are dead worried about their death and what comes after it.
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JoonasTo
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Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted November 27, 2008 08:01 PM |
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My point is that you CAN handle life of continuos pain. There are countless of people who do that.
So why do some people choose suicide instead of life
Because they think they'll be better off dead. And that's just not true.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted November 27, 2008 08:03 PM |
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Quote:
My point is that you CAN handle life of continuos pain. There are countless of people who do that.
So why do some people choose suicide instead of life
Because they think they'll be better off dead. And that's just not true.
So you KNOW better for all those people?
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted November 27, 2008 08:05 PM |
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Quote:
EDIT: What torture btw? I never said anything about torture.
Well your following quote implies some kind of torture when not existing at all (of course not physical):Quote:
Why do a suicide?
To get away from pain?
So what if you're in pain?
Not existing is a hell lot worse.
Also I agree perfectly with JJ
"Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome." - Isaac Asimov
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Geny
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Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted November 27, 2008 08:06 PM |
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They don't think it'll be better if they die, they think it'll be less bad. (i.e. they'll go from a negative state to "zero")
Did that make sense?
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted November 27, 2008 08:06 PM |
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If you're in continuous pain or terminal, I can see offing yourself. Your familiy and friends will understand the reasons.
If you're just some outcast who feels alienated, go get some help. Killing yourself is going to not only hurt you (duh), it's going to hurt your friends and families even more. Why inflict that kind of pain upon loved ones?
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The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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blizzardboy
Honorable
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Nerf Herder
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posted November 27, 2008 08:12 PM |
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I post on the forum that CJ (abraham biggs) posted on (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=19), so I'd like to add some inside insight to this:
With the level of BS/Pranks/Jokes that go on at the forum he posted on, it makes the Volcanic Wastelands here seem like a scholarly article database. I wasn't online while he committed suicide, but I can say with 99% certainty that if I was there at the time, I wouldn't have done anything either. It's akin to the "Boy Who Cried Wolf".
That being said, whether you instantly assume BS or not, I feel harassment and immaturity online is something we really need to address, (on an individual and educational level, not with some idiotic legislation) because the internet is getting more and more integrated into society and more and more people are using for both business and leisure. Having a computer monitor and miles of unknown distance between the people you're talking to really stripes away a lot of people's inhibitions and make them think the people they are talking to are less real. But they are real.
Should the people that encouraged CJ's suicide be charged for it? I'm neutral on whether or not they should be charged. But, do you think if people were telling a mentally unstable person to commit suicide in person-to-person interaction that they could be charged for it? I guarantee they could make a case for that, so they could make a case for it over the internet as well. The media painted a rather tame picture of what was going on inside the thread. There were people shouting the "N" word and calling him all sorts of other very nasty things. And for those of you who think that charging them impedes on the Freedom of Speech, you should take into account the fact that people are charged for verbal/sexual harassment all of the time.
As a final note, I will say that CJ wouldn't really care, but that's besides the point. If you ram into somebodies car and that person doesn't care, a crime was still committed.
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted November 27, 2008 08:19 PM |
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Edited by JoonasTo at 20:21, 27 Nov 2008.
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You all fail to grasp the point I'm trying to make.
@Minion:
I do since they can't be better off.
@Ash:
Didn't mean it like that. Meant it in a whole different way.
Nice quote but completely false. Death isn't peaceful. It isn't anything.
@Geny:
People don't go from negative to zero. That's the whole point!
If they did I'd agree with them completely. Hell, even if they went from positive to negative I'd still not complain about it.
The thing is they don't go anywhere.
Any better? Comprende?
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Geny
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted November 27, 2008 08:25 PM |
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Yeah, but if you don't exist than you can't feel pain, right?
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted November 27, 2008 08:36 PM |
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*sigh
That's what leads most to the solution I quess.
But it's not that simple. (As if anything ever was.  )
I'm not going to be able to explain it to you am I?
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blizzardboy
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posted November 27, 2008 08:39 PM |
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Quote:
Why do a suicide?
To get away from pain?
So what if you're in pain?
Not existing is a hell lot worse.
That makes no sense.
That's like saying it's better to have a bank account with a million dollars in debt than it is to not have a bank account at all.
The only reason you would want to stay alive is the possibility of one day not being in a negative state of misery. And that's a gamble that you can't predict. It's quite possible you'll just delay your death and endure several more years of miserable living.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted November 27, 2008 08:41 PM |
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Quote:
@Minion:
I do since they can't be better off.
What do you mean can't be better off?
Do you consider that some people would rather NOT live, if their live is so horrible? Can you just go to prisoner that is raped day and night by the guards, violated every possible way, your legs have been beaten so you will never ever walk again, and no, you are not being treated, you are "slowly" dying and you know it. Slowly if they don't increase the beating even more, which they might. You have been so utterly been destroyed both mentally and physically, and you would judge him for committing a suicide?
You are in the position of deciding for him, what is best for him? I find that arrogant.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted November 27, 2008 08:47 PM |
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TheDeath
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posted November 27, 2008 08:56 PM |
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"not existing" can't be 'worse' neither 'better' because... you don't exist, so you can't be worse or better (and you said it's "a hell of a lot worse" ).
Besides, that's already gonna happen anyway, not much of a point to have pain before that.
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JollyJoker
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posted November 27, 2008 09:18 PM |
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Quote:
You just don't get it.
Think!
I'm afraid it's you who don't get it. You can make no reliable claim about what will be after death. If there is a chance that something IS after death - and there certainly IS a chance greater than zero - than there is simply a point, when the high chance of finding prace combined with the low one of finding happiness is a lot more attractive than the high chance of enduring permanent pain until finding out about peace/happiness anyway combined with the low chance of finding a bit of happinness until then
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted November 27, 2008 09:47 PM |
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Well at least you two get it.
@Death:
Why are you still alive then? 
So why not feel the pain? It's not like it matters after you're dead.
I don't think I'll ever be able to explain why it's the worst that can happen to not exist (it's one of those things you have to get). The whole basic of being here is that you exist. If you don't exist then all this vanishes. (You didn't get that did you?  )
@JJ:
That's why I started with those who don't believe in afterlife...
If you believe in afterlife it's completely naturall to do suicide.
And actually we don't know if there is a chance greater than zero. We can't calculate chances for something we know nothing about.
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TheDeath
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posted November 27, 2008 09:54 PM |
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Quote:
Why are you still alive then?
Cos I have some hope in happiness and that the next moment will be better.
and cos I'm not selfish and care about others even if I have to sometimes 'suffer' (well you get the idea)
I understand what you mean with "not existing" but here is the thing: when you don't exist, it's not like you'll be WORSE off because you'll not be at all! So it can't be worse -- it can't be better either -- and it can't be the same either. Sounds like a paradox
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