Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info mods forum | HOMM4: info CTG forum | HOMM5: info mods forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Tavern of the Rising Sun > Thread: Harry Potter - Cynical insight
Thread: Harry Potter - Cynical insight This thread is 12 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 · NEXT»
Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted April 08, 2009 04:38 PM bonus applied by pandora on 09 Apr 2009.
Edited by Doomforge at 09:43, 30 Aug 2009.

Harry Potter - Cynical insight

Hello guys,

I want to focus on one of the most popular fantasy books of of modern times: Harry Potter.

It's spoiler heavy. If you have yet to read it, then don't read my "review"... of sorts.

First of all... let me say it straight. I enjoyed the books. But that doesn't mean they are any good. As a writer, I tend to focus a lot on the plot. Not only the style of writing, but also on the logic behind the plot, and how each parts hold together.

And what can I say about HP? It's ****ing HORRIBLE when it comes to plot. It has more flaws than I have hair on my legs (and I have lots of hair on my legs, trust me.) It's downright ridiculous! If you read all seven books and then look back... God! It's horrible! It's STUPID!

Let me explain something first. I think there are good planners and bad planners, in writing. A good planner will check each new idea he has, look for potential contradictions, check whether it does collide with his previous ideas or not, and if they do, change or remove it so it fits. Bad one will stick to it no matter what, and create ridiculous rules and explanations, bypassing the common LOGIC, making the book look stupid and the plot forced. it's like, we have a bad guy that can teleport, we want to kill him, we have the protagonists set a trap that's meant to finish the book, but wait, he can teleport and just run away! so we set a rule that he can't teleport at 5:49 am to 5:51 am on every first saturday of the month because of some stupid reason, and set the action so that the bad guy gets trapped there EXACTLY at that moment. So we can finish the plot as we want it! Weee! -___-

Anyway...

Let us start with the book 1.
The Philosopher's Stone

It's the first, definitely most "childish", and - definitely one of the most stupid HP books, judging by the amount of BS pushed in between the pages.

Let's skip the whole part of the wizardy world mingled in ours, the anti-muggle spells, magical creatures running loose, invisible castles, guys flying on brooms around without anybody noticing, memory erasers... ok, that's how it is. I'd prefer a parallel universe, which instantly eliminates all the "it's in our world, but it's well hidden!" bull****. But whatever. It has some sort of a naive charm, so let it be.

Let's focus on the plot, taking ALL of the plot devices used in the seven books into consideration.

So, we have this really, really bad guy, who kills people and acts all bad around the world. And he decides to kill Harry's parents, and Harry himself, because.. well, you know the plot. So he goes to their house, and...
... use the Time-changer, please.. Make Dumbledore travel a hour back, instantly after he discovers where Voldy is, than make him do it again. And again. And again. Four Dumbledores, ready to hand Voldy's butt to him, waiting for him in the place he went to (alone!). He can't possibly beat FOUR superior wizards at once, right? Since he pretty much can't beat one Dumbledore. Four will mop the floor with him. Problem solved. No Harry Potter books needed.

What's wrong? Dumby will kill himself once he notices another "himself"? I thought it applies only to those unaware of such thing as timechanger. Dumby knows it, and plans to use it once Voldy is tracked down. When he goes there and see three other clones of himself, he obviously won't go berserk and kill them all, lol. And what's the problem with tracking Voldy? in Book seven, they track people down when they say "voldemort". They can put a taboo on that word. PUT THE TABOO ON "AVADA KEDAVRA". Voila. Every time someone gets killed, the law instantly pops in. What is the PROBLEM?

So what's the other problem? That he doesn't want to bend the rules? because the ministry of magic won't allow it? Sure! using the timechanger to kill the world's biggest nightmare is bending the rules, giving the timechanger to a random schoolgirl so she can study more isn't. Because, obviously, who the heck cares about a murdering psycho running loose. It's EDUCATION of a silly teenage GIRL that is important!!!

Rotfl. Ok Rowling, now you understand why Time Travel - if implemented in a plot in a stupid way, like you did - creates tons of contradictions and is necessary pointless. If you don't have a superior mind that can comprehend altered timeline, STAY AWAY FROM ALTERING TIME in your books. YOu know it now? Ah, I see you conveniently decided to get rid of all timetravelers in Book 5. They just got randomly destroyed. Wise girl! Never do it again.

Ok, let's move further. Voldy gets killed by his own spell. This is the only case where the spell backfired, as Rowling mentions. It was caused by love channeled into an ancient protective spell. Surely, nobody ever loved his/her kids, friends, family or whatever before, and nobody ever noticed that it can prevent death with a spell, until our wise Lily Potter here. Did no one ever try? If so, how did she know what spell to use? What a steaming pile of dog crap. If such spells existed, they would be commonly used to protect the loved ones. How in the world such knowledge would be ANCIENT and FORGOTTEN? Don't make me laugh. Who would forget a spell that prevents you from getting killed? Lily isn't Dumbledore, she's talented but not a walking wizardly God, so if she can do it (with Voldy being a couple meters away! balls of steel, I'd say.. oh wait, she's a girl.), anyone can. Yeah, that's a spell you would gladly forget and NOT teach in school. Cause a spell causing a hiccup is so ****ing more important to a wizard.

Whatever. The evil guy survives. He has horcruxes, so he does. Okay. The concept of splitting the soul is cool, I must admit, but we'll focus on that later. We have more crap to focus on now.

10 years later, Potter goes to school. He has his "suppa cool" adventures, but they weren't that bad. From logical point of view, that is. So let's just skip them and move to the real piece of ****. The ending. yeah, endings are generally stupid in like 80% of the books, including "the witcher". A good ending is a miracle. This is NOT a good one, of course. Let's see.

Ok, first thing; You have this super important philosopher stone. You don't want Voldy to get it. No matter that Voldy is incorporeal, basically helpless and the remnants of his followers are afraid to admit they were ever following him, because they are a bunch of stinking cowards. No matter than in 10 years, no one has ever heard of him. It's exactly THIS year, when Dumby and his friend decide to hide the philosopher stone. Umm. Was it different - danger-wise - from the previous ones? And do one half-dead man and a bunch of stinking cowards actually pose that much of a threat to get the stone out of a safe bank, and use a half-giant to get it to a "safer place"? Isn't he more prone to getting surprised along the way and killed - if there's actually anyone to attack him out there, and we're constantly told there is pretty much no danger - than the dragons in the bank? Is he a bigger threat? ummm.

But that's not that horrible. We already know that the stone can be destroyed. In the end, we are told that the Flamel guy doesn't care for immortality anyway. Why to hide it, if it's that dangerous, but in the same time, redundant? Why not destroy it outright?

Worse. They take it from a secure bank, protected by dragons, multiplying goods and all other things we see in Book 7. They put it in school, "protected" by some ***-weak "traps" that can be solved by half-dumb 11 year old students that don't distinguish the wand from a fork yet. Wheee! Dumbledore, you genious. It's very safe there indeed, if a bunch of kids can get it. Why bother with those "traps" that are a challenge to mentally retarded 10 year olds? I mean, who is there to steal it, students? No, Voldemort and maybe some of his followers. if the traps cant stop the kids, will they stop fully-trained dark wizards? Some plants that are common knowledge, and a chess game? What the...?

But that's not all! Imagine you want to HIDE something, say, very expensive jewelry, so you put in a safe, but suspect it's not enough to stop the potential thieves, so what do you do: put more security, a camera, infrared movement detector? NO, of course not, it's for idiots, you obviously put a chess board in front of the safe, and make the safe open if the thief defeats the AI.

WAT?

I guess it was meant to protect the stone, not to throw in an invitation to a potential thief? I mean, what the hell is the point, to make the chances of breaking in like, say, 50-50 (for mentally retarded kids, that is, for every other trained wizard it's a piece of cake)? Why not to seal the place the way Voldy sealed his boat in the Book 6, a way that is pretty much invisible to a common wizard, unless he's godly skilled, like Dumbledore? Why not to throw the stone into Dumbledore's cupboard, since it doesn't seem to be an easy way to get there and it's under strict observation of the headmaster? If they are THAT paranoid, then why no Fidelius charm, with Dumbledore as the keeper, which would solve the problem IMMEDIATELY and with 100% success rate? No one would EVER find it. But no, they have to through the painful process of sealing the corridor, setting traps.. and sealing with what? With a simple spell so a random kid may enter and get eaten by the three-headed dog? Way to go! What a bunch of loons. No, of course they will go throgh the process, they will put put some half-***ed traps, so that the plot may advance and we can see how "smart" Potter and his friends are, solving the mysterious tunnel! So that we can enjoy our overdramatic ending.

And that mirror.. it's a cool concept, that it reflects not your image, but your deepest desires... but Rowling screwed it up too! How is it even possible? I mean, how can Potter see himself finding the stone in the mirror at the end? It's not his heart's deepest desire! It's a situational need. It's like he would see himself taking a pee if he stumbled across the mirror with a full bladder and an urgent need. The very CONCEPT of the mirror got destroyed, so it no longer shows the soul's deepest desire.. because it wouldn't work as a plot device, anymore!

What a piece of crap. I can't believe I actually liked it, the first time. I'm tired of reviewing it.

UPDATE: Book 2 is recapped at page 9.

____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
MightyMage
MightyMage


Honorable
Legendary Hero
of INSANITY and DELICIOUSNESS
HC SUPPORTER
posted April 08, 2009 04:57 PM

I love this stuff.  Keep it up!

It's like the Nostalgia Critic for books.
____________
Though I must still bow
in awe for the awesomeness that is
MightyMage.  For he is all I could ever
want to be!
- OhforfSake

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted April 08, 2009 04:57 PM

I was a bit inspired by AVGN, I must admit. Pinpointing the flaws is so much fun. I just use a more gentle language
____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
MightyMage
MightyMage


Honorable
Legendary Hero
of INSANITY and DELICIOUSNESS
HC SUPPORTER
posted April 08, 2009 05:09 PM

You should make a Youtube Video now complete with special effects and hard liquor.

Have Willy make you a theme song.
____________
Though I must still bow
in awe for the awesomeness that is
MightyMage.  For he is all I could ever
want to be!
- OhforfSake

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted April 08, 2009 05:13 PM

ROFL, good stuff!
____________
Coincidence? I think not!!!!

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted April 08, 2009 05:17 PM

Thanks Lex

MM, and what my nick should be? Angry 15-year-old-girls-loving PC Geek?
____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Totoro
Totoro


Famous Hero
in User
posted April 08, 2009 06:13 PM

That's alot of critique but you can't deny the fact that Potter is one of the best books ever.

Bad books don't make millionaires, you know.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted April 08, 2009 06:15 PM

Quote:
MM, and what my nick should be? Angry 15-year-old-girls-loving PC Geek?


What about GoofGorge?
____________
Coincidence? I think not!!!!

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted April 08, 2009 06:17 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 18:19, 08 Apr 2009.

It's like dragon ball. DB has one of the worst plot ever, and the constant powerup cycle sucks ***, but it's incredibly popular.

Or like Britney spears. Cheap plastic pop wannabe, earning millions.

Because something is popular doesn't mean it's actually flawless, or even "good". Can you call a book with so many plotholes "good"? "art"? It's enjoyable, yes, but why so many plotholes?

Yeah, I still enjoyed it, so I guess it's good. But it could be way better if Rowling actually paid attention to the plot. I'm not criticizing her writing skills, they are good. Maybe even awesome.
____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted April 08, 2009 06:18 PM

AVGN? You should read some TvTropes if you haven't, that helps a lot (and is also gonna make you giggle )
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted April 08, 2009 07:00 PM
Edited by Elvin at 19:01, 08 Apr 2009.

Heheh good work Doomforge. To be honest I didn't bother to think it through after reading the last book and apparently neither did Rowling As for her inherent popularity my bet is that she captured the teenager's interest and wrote about issues they typically encounter at that age, only she spiced things up so that the world they read about is magical
A magical soap opera where people grow close to the protagonists and want to see what happens next. The first book indeed had a naive charm but afterwards the tone got more more serious which certainly helped.
____________
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Cepheus
Cepheus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
posted April 08, 2009 07:04 PM

You seriously should post up some excerpts from your own books some time

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted April 08, 2009 07:07 PM

I'm working on it, don't worry
____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted April 08, 2009 08:38 PM

Quote:
Because something is popular doesn't mean it's actually flawless, or even "good". Can you call a book with so many plotholes "good"? "art"? It's enjoyable, yes, but why so many plotholes?
Actually, sometimes, yes they are. A story is mostly for ENTERTAINMENT not for logic. Even if something "doesn't make sense" (how CAN it make sense, unless it's a newspaper??), by what criterion do you judge it? The real world? Well the real world doesn't have wizards, or they hide really well.

Now I do agree with most stuff you said that it is pathetic (I'm pretty sure fans wouldn't) and I find it a bit childish, but, for example, 'critic arguments' like these:
Quote:
No, of course they will go throgh the process, they will put put some half-***ed traps, so that the plot may advance and we can see how "smart" Potter and his friends are, solving the mysterious tunnel! So that we can enjoy our overdramatic ending.
means you don't review it properly.
OF COURSE that's what it happens, OF COURSE the story has to SHOW what the protagonist is capable of. No one who is interested in a good story will be interested in a reality show where 100 "good guys" do the job without any kind of focus on something. It makes them expendable, it makes them "weak", it makes them lack depth. Character development is an art in itself, which is 100 times more important than "logic" or "consistency" if done well.

Simply put, people do not CARE about the "reality show characters" as much as a properly-built protagonist or something they can "like" or "idolize" (depending how much of a fan you really are). No one's gonna idolize "just another cop", unless it's a reality series, but even then, those that seek a fantasy story don't go there.

Don't speak like the writers (speaking in general) are not even aware of this -- it would be too arrogant. They are PERFECTLY aware of this "character development" and no matter how ridiculous it may be put, they were aware of it. (a lot of detail is in Tv Tropes for any kind of things like this, but tropes are not bad, it's what makes a story a certain way/genre).

Now I'll give a comparison to something I also find "bad" in terms of logic (time travel wise) but still a very good movie (yeah well movies have stories too!). How ridiculous is the Terminator time travel, with all the inconsistencies and paradoxes available there. But it's still good. You have to understand what makes something good or not. Being "closer to real-life attributes" is not gonna capture the readers or audience, especially if it's fantasy. It's only going to attract possible critics who look into flaws and analyze the story rather than "walk through it" (as art), and I don't think the writers really care about critics to be honest as long as "the audience" or normal readers will find it... "good".


As for "why THIS day? why THIS year? why does it happen exactly to Harry?" which can get summarized as "why does it happen only for our protagonists or whatever the story follows?".

The answer is very simple. Requires more art than logic though, but then again, the story is revolving around THAT because that's what is interesting. A story following a normal day-to-day dude which does his job is not gonna be an interesting one. If say, there's also a dragon in such a story, OBVIOUSLY the story WILL FOLLOW the knight/dragon hunter/whatever. (possibly more characters also, but that one is a MUST).

I mean it is BOUND to happen to someone (even a 1 out of 1000 chance happens to some people), and the story revolves ONLY around those, because that's what is interesting. It's not an incredibly low chance, because it deliberately follows them, so the chance is 100% bound to happen. It deliberately follows them because that's what's gonna make it interesting and not BORING. Frankly I think too much logic/realism will make it boring.
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
lucky_dwarf
lucky_dwarf


Promising
Supreme Hero
Visiting
posted April 08, 2009 08:43 PM

ahem lets make the thread more interesting

Quote:
What's wrong? Dumby will kill himself once he notices another "himself"? I thought it applies only to those unaware of such thing as timechanger. Dumby knows it, and plans to use it once Voldy is tracked down. When he goes there and see three other clones of himself, he obviously won't go berserk and kill them all, lol. And what's the problem with tracking Voldy? in Book seven, they track people down when they say "voldemort". They can put a taboo on that word. PUT THE TABOO ON "AVADA KEDAVRA". Voila. Every time someone gets killed, the law instantly pops in. What is the PROBLEM?


The problem is that its a NEW discovery NO ONE EVEN KNEW you could do that. Why did Voldy do it first? He's the second best ****ing wiz in this book! (Harry is still a pushover for him at this point)
Why didn't Dumbeldore do it? He's busy running the ****ing school!
Why didnt old Cornelius Fudge do it? 1st he's a retard 2nd he's busy running the ****ing government!


Quote:
So what's the other problem? That he doesn't want to bend the rules? because the ministry of magic won't allow it? Sure! using the timechanger to kill the world's biggest nightmare is bending the rules, giving the timechanger to a random schoolgirl so she can study more isn't.


History is a fragile thing. Look if you went back in time right now and killed Hitler you did the world a big favor right? WRONG
Hittler is the reason America is not broke right now! Forget America is going in an economic downturn! Because we went to war we had to make war machines so we can kill Hitler and his Nazi's. This starts to roll in cash because we got to pay the people working to make these things. Duh! Remember the war happened in the Great Depression.

Who knows what could have happened if Voldy was dead. Maybe the population would have been terrified to know the ministry can undo anything. Big companies would have been scared out of their boots to know that overnight their whole business could collapse. There would have been a massive revolution!

And bending the rules for a random teenager is acceptable for one reason. The ministry isn't going to think that a 13 year old girl will unleash havoc on the world if she is just using it to study.

Quote:
Ok, let's move further. Voldy gets killed by his own spell. This is the only case where the spell backfired, as Rowling mentions. It was caused by love channeled into an ancient protective spell. Surely, nobody ever loved his/her kids, friends, family or whatever before, and nobody ever noticed that it can prevent death with a spell, until our wise Lily Potter here. Did no one ever try? If so, how did she know what spell to use? What a steaming pile of dog crap. If such spells existed, they would be commonly used to protect the loved ones. How in the world such knowledge would be ANCIENT and FORGOTTEN? Don't make me laugh. Who would forget a spell that prevents you from getting killed? Lily isn't Dumbledore, she's talented but not a walking wizardly God, so if she can do it (with Voldy being a couple meters away! balls of steel, I'd say.. oh wait, she's a girl.), anyone can. Yeah, that's a spell you would gladly forget and NOT teach in school. Cause a spell causing a hiccup is so ****ing more important to a wizard.


Well clearly it can't be the First one. Its the first one to actually be recorded in history. Look, the medieval wizards lived mostly in seclusion and the Hogwarts was barely established.(i am pretty sure the book said its was established some 500-1000 years ago)
If some miracle happened in France and someone survived the Avada-kadavra curse mugles would have definitely seen it and since it is VERY likely that all wizard inhabitants(excepting the one who survived) were dead. Plus the mugles would freak out and immediately put them to the cleansing flame. And dont you bull crap me with the flame freezing charm! The wand is likely lost in the debris of the blast from the backfiring of the spell. Even if he/she survived to tell the tale he would be dismissed as a crazy French man.

And besides you forget a key point. You can ONLY do this spell IF your loved one was about to die and face it there weren't many wizards to begin with. Imagine trying to learn that at school? You'll be dead before you can even use it real life.

Finally try teaching the spell to someone else if your dead!(ok so ghosts get a loop hole)

Quote:
No matter than in 10 years, no one has ever heard of him. It's exactly THIS year, when Dumby and his friend decide to hide the philosopher stone.


Granted its a slim chance but you forget that Everyone hated him. Dumby even says that he never made friends. Your not likely to go resurrect your boss if he threatened to kill you(as he usually did).

Quote:
But that's not that horrible. We already know that the stone can be destroyed. In the end, we are told that the Flamel guy doesn't care for immortality anyway. Why to hide it, if it's that dangerous, but in the same time, redundant? Why not destroy it outright?


No one wants to die! Your body tells you that dieing is not good for you(duh!) and Flamel would have live forever simply because there was no reason to stop yet. He was a greedy bastard but he just didnt tell it to Dumby's face.

Granted that he moved the stone and put protection that makes a toddler go but as Dumby saw it if it was under his eye it would be enough to scare the **** out of Voldy. Besides the last 2 protections were a fair bit harder as Hermiony said it "Most wizards dont have an ounce of logic! They'd be stuck here forever!" The last protection was almost full proof seeing as Quirel/Voldy wanted to use the stone not just find it.

i eagerly await to critically analyze your next post
____________
So much has changed in my absence.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted April 08, 2009 08:45 PM

Quote:
As for "why THIS day? why THIS year? why does it happen exactly to Harry?" which can get summarized as "why does it happen only for our protagonists or whatever the story follows?".

The answer is very simple. Requires more art than logic though, but then again, the story is revolving around THAT because that's what is interesting.


I disagree.

You can make a story involving a certain event, yes, but it doesn't need to be illogical.

You will see when I reach book 4 - I mean, you most likely know it already, but I'm going to elaborate on it - that Rowling simply didn't think those things through, and didn't even bother to get rid of some plotholes that were easily avoidable.

So it's not arrogance or anything to point them out. She SHOULD take care of them ; It's either the story without any focus on the background, OR a story+detalied world. She tried to do the latter and she failed, imho. The story is still fun, but the world - because of the amount of plotholes - is simply not REAL enough, I mean, how DUMB would people have to be to make such mistakes as those "traps" and so on?

Plot devices.. I hate them.
____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted April 08, 2009 08:59 PM

Quote:
The problem is that its a NEW discovery NO ONE EVEN KNEW you could do that. Why did Voldy do it first? He's the second best ****ing wiz in this book! (Harry is still a pushover for him at this point)
Why didn't Dumbeldore do it? He's busy running the ****ing school!
Why didnt old Cornelius Fudge do it? 1st he's a retard 2nd he's busy running the ****ing government!


You know, that's a big... assumption. Everyone is busy but then Rowling comes up with the idea that would make the story more interesting, oh wait, it screws up the logic of the whole "we can't find him" stuff.. ok let's make it Voldy's invention!

... would be ok if she actually mentioned it as his invention..


Quote:
History is a fragile thing. Look if you went back in time right now and killed Hitler you did the world a big favor right? WRONG
Hittler is the reason America is not broke right now! Forget America is going in an economic downturn! Because we went to war we had to make war machines so we can kill Hitler and his Nazi's. This starts to roll in cash because we got to pay the people working to make these things. Duh! Remember the war happened in the Great Depression.


Thanks for the history lesson, but it's actually comparing, as Mytical said somewhere, apples to bazookas. The story is about a SINGLE dark wizard which causes all the fuss, NOTHING as complicated as nations and governments. It's childish to try and rise it to that level. Getting rid of Voldy is the main goal.

Quote:
Who knows what could have happened if Voldy was dead. Maybe the population would have been terrified to know the ministry can undo anything. Big companies would have been scared out of their boots to know that overnight their whole business could collapse. There would have been a massive revolution!


... yeah right

Quote:
And bending the rules for a random teenager is acceptable for one reason. The ministry isn't going to think that a 13 year old girl will unleash havoc on the world if she is just using it to study.


Yeah, because getting rid of killer-madman will surely UNLEASH HAVOC on the world... @_o

Quote:
If some miracle happened in France and someone survived the Avada-kadavra curse mugles would have definitely seen it and since it is VERY likely that all wizard inhabitants(excepting the one who survived) were dead. Plus the mugles would freak out and immediately put them to the cleansing flame.


Excuse me?

What?

I don't get your point at all. If the muggles saw a man killed by a flash of green light, it would be ok!?!?!?

But seeing him survive that wouldn't?

WAT?


Quote:
And besides you forget a key point. You can ONLY do this spell IF your loved one was about to die and face it there weren't many wizards to begin with. Imagine trying to learn that at school? You'll be dead before you can even use it real life.


!? Who told you when or how you can use the spell? We know only what Rowling told us. There weren't many wizards to begin with? What sort of argument is that? What is your point here?

Quote:
Finally try teaching the spell to someone else if your dead!(ok so ghosts get a loop hole)


!?!?!!?

Quote:
Granted its a slim chance but you forget that Everyone hated him. Dumby even says that he never made friends. Your not likely to go resurrect your boss if he threatened to kill you(as he usually did).


How does it relate to the "We hide the stone not in the 8th year after Voldemort's collapse, not in 9th, but in 10th year, for no apparent reason" ?

Quote:
No one wants to die! Your body tells you that dieing is not good for you(duh!) and Flamel would have live forever simply because there was no reason to stop yet. He was a greedy bastard but he just didnt tell it to Dumby's face.


Excuse me, but where did you get this stuff? Just an overinterpretation..

Quote:
Besides the last 2 protections were a fair bit harder as Hermiony said it "Most wizards dont have an ounce of logic! They'd be stuck here forever!" The last protection was almost full proof seeing as Quirel/Voldy wanted to use the stone not just find it.


Yeah, wizards are mentally retarded... wait, they didn't seem like that in the book... enter justification of a crappy ending! Rowling rulez.

And I already covered the mirror stuff. Makes no sense that Potter got the stone anyway.

Quote:
i eagerly await to critically analyze your next post


Try some better arguments next time mate, k?
____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted April 08, 2009 09:01 PM
Edited by TheDeath at 21:07, 08 Apr 2009.

Hey wait mate, I agree with the "plot devices" also called "bending the plot to suit something" instead of vice-versa (which should happen IMO), what I meant was that, as far as "ridiculousness" is concerned (not logic, maybe I expressed myself wrong), it is sometimes a very good way of making it good. Protagonists are usually ridiculous anyway, even in non-fantasy/fiction stories. That's what makes them interesting, makes you idolize them, etc... It's all part of artistical character development

Quote:
Yeah, because getting rid of killer-madman will surely UNLEASH HAVOC on the world
He's right, altering history (and not only major events) has drastic consequences, there's nothing to joke about it, at least theoretically speaking (and solving paradoxes). Maybe if you go and kill Hitler you wouldn't even exist anymore. What if you save some dude and then he makes an accident with someone who was supposed to be, let's say, your father? That's it, you just killed yourself. What if said dude makes an accident with an undercover cop and the terrorists are then able to nuke something before getting caught? (just a silly example, to show you the possibilities)

Quote:
How does it relate to the "We hide the stone not in the 8th year after Voldemort's collapse, not in 9th, but in 10th year, for no apparent reason" ?
Here's another such example.

When would you want it then? If it would be in the 8th, you would complain why it's not the 9th. If it would be in the 9th, you would complain why not the 10th...

it just is. Stuff happens, and by the way, I do things seemingly "for no reason" except "hey I decided to do X right now". Sure someone from outside may say "why X and not Y" or "why milisecond 5 and not the 10 milisecond?"... seriously
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted April 08, 2009 09:08 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 21:10, 08 Apr 2009.

Why are you going on about Hitler anyway? Things like that are complicated indeed, but here, there is one guy, with no connections at all, he's just a madman running around killing people. Killing him wouldn't "upset the balance". Not one bit. He ended up dead anyway.


And no, if it happened in the past (stone being moved to the castle), I wouldn't complain. If Dumbledore mentioned that "once again, the floor is sealed", it would be fine! why? Because it wouldn't be a plot device anymore.
____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted April 08, 2009 09:29 PM

Quote:
Why are you going on about Hitler anyway?
Because lucky_dwarf mentioned him
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: « Prev Thread . . . Next Thread » This thread is 12 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 · NEXT»
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.1322 seconds