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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: The Dragon Slaughter
Thread: The Dragon Slaughter This thread is 51 pages long: 1 10 ... 17 18 19 20 21 ... 30 40 50 51 · «PREV / NEXT»
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted August 02, 2011 10:29 PM

I agree that it is very hard to find bonuses which please the less skilled player and fit the story as well. In my test Hulk got a very easy start with his improved henchman, and Gem had the possibility to just move her dragon until it had full health. Is that bonus removed? I had it, maybe old version...

Then trying Orrin, all my comfort were gone because the bow did not help as much as for others. Doctor bonus is pushing to reloads, but it is an interesting one. If we could understand what it does. (I remember a bit what this artefact had as properties, but never used it).
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JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted August 02, 2011 11:14 PM

The Wand is a new WoG artifact which is explained in the document "New Features in the Wake of the Gods", which is part of the WoG installation package.  I did not want to write a long description of it, but simply to remind people who had read the full description which Miscellaneous slot (1-5) affects which other artifact slots, e.g. if the Wand is in Miscellaneous slot 1, it may change what is in the Head and Neck slots overnight.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted August 03, 2011 12:10 AM
Edited by Salamandre at 00:23, 03 Aug 2011.

This document was removed in ERA, myself I can't find it anywhere (not even a single site explains anymore wog artefacts) and I forgot what the wand does. I could not decrypt your abbreviations, but it is surely only my problem, all other players will probably find out that M = misc.slot

I am testing Xarfax and noticed that Banshee fire ball affects inferno units as well. The banshee clone casts sometimes frost ring and kills herself. But overall the strongest faction after Azrael.
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Bersy
Bersy


Honorable
Supreme Hero
posted August 03, 2011 01:42 AM

Help\wogfeatures.htm

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted August 03, 2011 01:52 AM

Thanks, found it.
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Aleee
Aleee


Known Hero
posted August 04, 2011 09:38 PM

I already have more than the half of "The Dragon Slaughter" translated into Russian, but now I'm concerned that my version (which is quite old) may contain some serious bugs that have already been fixed by JimV and Salamandre. So I would like to merge all this stuff somehow. Is it to make some kind of compilation of most important patches implemented or at least a list of scripts which should be completely replaced by those from the last version of the map? Because it would be too complicated to merge all these scripts one by one. I also tried to make a list from the HC topic but it turned into mess at some point. Or is it OK to continue with my version (which is 2.07E)?

Valery has given me a hint that this is a question for mr. Vogan. Thanks in advance.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted August 04, 2011 09:40 PM

Thanks Aleee, this is a great project. Only JimV kept track of everything that was changed, mainly scripts but a few text too.
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JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted August 05, 2011 03:53 AM
Edited by JimV at 04:30, 05 Aug 2011.

Aleee, if you will email your translated map to me, or give a link where I can download it, I will check the scripts in it and try to merge in the latest updates to ERM code.  The only written notes I have for changes is this thread itself, but probably I can understand them better than others.

Do you want something close to the Chinese 2.05 version, which would be 2.06E with just bug fixes, the current 2.07E with new options as proposed by Salamandre, or version 2.07J with the additional option to give the human player a starting bonus?  (Or all of them?)

The only significant dialog text change I can think of (since 2.06E) was a recent one in the <green>Azrael script, telling the player what happens when the Gnoll Hut (Werewolves) and Gorgon Lair (NIghtmares) are upgraded in a Hidden Race Fortress.  The message we had in 2.06E was wrong due to a misunderstanding of the script.  Of course, a lot of the English text is probably not a good translation of the original Chinese, and in fact new stories were made for Teal and Pink, based on fictional characters which are familiar to most English speakers (but using Woodmelon's scripted events).  You may wish to use characters from Russian fiction instead.

Edit - There were also text changes to the "Leader's Properties" dialogs, for Azrael (for a change made to his Necromancy as applied to Werewolves, requested by Salamandre) and Gem.  These are not crucial changes, but they make Azrael's and Gem's descriptions more complete.

Also, looking back through the thread, I see there were complaints about the difficulty of some quests and suggestions for making them easier to understand, which were not acted upon due to other changes being in progress.  So there might be more work to be done.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted August 05, 2011 05:27 AM
Edited by Salamandre at 05:30, 05 Aug 2011.

For me 2.07J is the best from far. Having 2 interesting options instead of sphinx visit or AI spells, more hints, proper descriptions and easy starting options which may avoid people being too scared at first try, because the early game (1st three days) is  almost impossible.
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Aleee
Aleee


Known Hero
posted August 05, 2011 09:46 AM

So I'm going to continue working with this map avoiding scripts you have mentioned in your post. Then I'll contact you for assistance.

I also consider this map to be difficult as hell, and I believe that you guys have done a great job trying to make it more friendly. So I agree that it should be 2.07J or any following version that might be out.

Thanks both for help.

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JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted August 05, 2011 01:12 PM
Edited by JimV at 13:19, 05 Aug 2011.

While re-reading the thread to make a list of changes, I noticed these remaining issues:

1. Zombies can be upgraded to Mummies as part of the WoG Extended Upgrades, but this is bad for Azrael because it breaks the chain which would otherwise let him upgrade Skeletons all the way to Blood Dragons.  Maybe this particular upgrade should be removed, at least when playing Green?  (Or add an upgrade from Mummies to Wigts?)

2. Also when playing Green, after defeating Roland but running away from Catherine, the player should be informed that the next step is to storm the City of Ruins.  I think Azrael's Story needs some tweaking on this point - it was not clear to me from the translation what Woodmelon and Yunings had in mind, so I may have to make something up which fits the events in a more logical way.  Maybe Catherine's army should be given Hatred damage against Undead, and Azrael thinks there is some magic in the City of Ruins which will prevent Hatred.  The map view should be moved to the City of Ruins when this information is presented.

3. The Genie/Lighthouse quest is difficult to follow and complete.  Moving the view to the Lookout (after it has been visited once) on days six and seven of the week would at least remind the player that there is something to do there on those days, until the quest is finished.

Also, I think the revision which stops Xarfax's Second Henchman from having three spell-casts per round will prevent it from having infinite Rebirths, but I don't have a saved game where the bug occurs on which to test this fix.

Meanhile, the current version of 2.07J at Box.net has a complete description of The Doctor's Sonic Screwdriver, and the starting bonuses have been improved for several colors.

P.S. The Doctor's starting bonus includes the Meteor Shower spell, which along with the Power and Knowledge increases given by the Sonic Screwdriver, lets him use his multiple-spell casting ability at the start of the game to good effect.  He is the easiest character to get started with, for me.  Of course, after about a month of game time, enemy creatures are too strong for damage spells to have much effect on them, but it is fun for me to use his special battle skill in the beginning.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted August 05, 2011 06:24 PM

The lighthouse is in the main quest and it is capital. You can't have the suit of the warrior if you don't complete that quest. I am not sure that moving view would help, because first the player should understand the time triggers, and he has no information about that, except "maybe come back on weekend" which can be also interpreted metaphorically, given the form of the story and events. When I played it the first time I had to peek into scripts at every move in the main quest, I was lost without. On the other side, giving precise hints in the Help menu will spoil the map and its unique atmosphere.

Hard choice, I can't recommend one way or another.
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JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted August 06, 2011 05:40 PM
Edited by JimV at 19:17, 06 Aug 2011.

My idea for the Lighthouse is to check for day 6 or day 7 in the timer which enables Lighthouse events, and on those days move the view to the Lookout with a message, "Wasn't there something I need to do today?"

The past couple days I have been investigating what happens when Roland and Catherine attack Azrael at the southern Wisdom Hut.  I have used the saved game "Genii1.GM1" to do this, since it is at the point when Azrael can trigger those events.  I have learned a lot, so I will have to restrict myself to one issue in this post since there is too much to write all at one time.

Both Roland and Catherine fly the Black Flag, that is they do not have a color (owner).  As I first learned in the great "Alexander the Great", when an ownerless Hero tries to retreat from a battle, the game crashes (usually - the program attempts to access a random location, and if that location is inaccessible, the game crashes).  Roland has the Shackles, so he does not try to retreat.  Catherine does not have the Shackles, in this battle (since it is intended that Azrael retreat).  There is a script command to change a Retreat action by Catherine to a Defend, but it does not prevent the crash.

As ERM Help explains, the way to use a neutral Hero in battle is to give it a "dummy owner" via HE:O#/1 - but not everyone reads ERM Help thoroughly (including myself, on occasion).  I added this command to the saved game, and now the battle with Catherine does not crash.

As I suspected, this battle can not be won.  All of Catherine's troops have 100% Block of physical damage.  Azrael must retreat or die.  There still needs to be a better explanation of what to do next in the dialogs.

I found battles with ownerless Heroes who do not have Shackles in three scripts:  <Red Story>Lord Haart (Catherine), <Green Story>Azrael (Catherine), and Knight Tyris (Zydar).  I have added HE:O#/1 commands to these scripts - but not re-uploaded to Box.net yet as there is more to do.

Other issues found during these tests: the third IF&v5500>-1:Wy-3 in Second Henchman 1 should be v5501>-1 (may explain transfer of Rebirth skill from side 0 to side 1); small dialog change in <Red Story>Lord Haart; and new battle ability found (transformation) for the human Leader when the Hidden Race is used - this needs to be explained at the time the Hidden Race is selected, and in the Help Menu.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted August 06, 2011 10:48 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 23:00, 06 Aug 2011.

Between adding a reminder/move look every 7 days and do nothing, I would choose the second. There are so many things to do beside the lighthouse quest, and constantly interrupt the player from other plots for only one of the quests may confuse more than help. Also he can't know that he has to equip the speculum, unless its name and properties are modified to more appropriate. The speculum adds +1/2 radius to scouting ability, how one can, imagine it is used to see far away towards a lighthouse without no hint in description at all?

I don't see any valuable solution here except a detailed walk-through but then the map loses its "what's going on" atmosphere, if I can call that like this.

Does anybody else experienced script errors on reload game? I often have "hero out of range" due to the prohibit TP/DD script.
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JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted August 07, 2011 12:27 AM
Edited by JimV at 03:34, 07 Aug 2011.

I have seen that error also.  It is a nuisance, but does not stop the game, and does not happen often, so I have not given it much importance.  I will look into it.

The maps at http://www.box.net/shared/bj1eh6b50e have been updated with changes to these scripts:  Map Special Options, Second Henchmen 1, <Red Story>Lord Haart, <green story>Azrael, Lighthouse, Fortress, Knight Tyris, and Help Menu II.

The changes were for reasons discussed previously.  I was going to describe them in detail, with before and after code listings, to record the change history here, but decided instead to put comments in the scripts themselves.  Copying the scripts from the maps to the ERM editor and searching for "JHV" will find where changes were made and why.  (most of my previous changes also are identified by --JHV, but not all.  From now on, all will be.)

Warning:  the changes which affect program mechanics were checked by typing them into saved games and playing the saved games, which were at points where the revised events could be tested, but this is not the same as doing a complete play-test of all options by starting new games with the new maps (which would take me weeks of real time).  For one thing, the changes in the new maps were typed separately, and could have separate typos.  In other words, when fixing errors there is always a chance of creating new errors.  Please report any errors found so they can be fixed.

Re changes to the Lighthouse and Azreal's story scripts to make them less mysterious:  what has been assumed from my brief descriptions is not exactly what the changes entail.  They may not work for everyone, but my feeling is that I, myself, would have been grateful for them, which is all that I can do without feedback from actual play.

Update - the maps have been re-uploaded with changes to the Forbid CH script, to prevent the problem with HE-1 when there is no active Hero.  

There are still events in the game which I haven't tried, such as the Adventure Cave, but as far I know (knock on wood), every reported problem has been corrected, and I might be out of work here.

Edit - On further thought I am not sure the Forbid CH script was the cause of those Hero-out-of-range error messages.  Other possibilities seem more likely to me, but I need more information.  As usual, a saved game where the problem occurs would be ideal.  Otherwise I would have to look at every HE-1 in the map, and there are many.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted August 07, 2011 04:10 AM
Edited by Salamandre at 04:11, 07 Aug 2011.

Thank you for all the work, I don't know other maps/mods having such strong customer support.

Now let's hope for some feedback/

@Edit it was the check for DD and fly script. Each error shows parts of code inside. Guess it has to do with no active hero.
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pogolqm
pogolqm

Tavern Dweller
posted October 12, 2011 12:58 PM

I have a question and i dont know the reason for what is happening .. whether it is a bugged version of the game or the map or something i do, i dont know but here it is. I cant find the WW scroll .. i mean after the first time i went true half the map i looked all around the city it should be untill i get the message for fighting the azure dragons that are hidden there. All is well but i cant engage them, i mean i get the msg but no fighting starts. So i opened the map with mapeditor and looked around .. sure enough there is nothing else around exept the spot i already found... still no fighting i wondered if me map version was bad so i tried a couple of other maps i found .. ( i must admit i used cheats for all the attemts exept the first one since i just want to make sure i can get the scroll and only then i will put the time it takes to play the map up to that point). i wonder what to do. This is one of the best maps i played i and realy want to finish it, but after 4 mounts ingame with the first time and passing some of the quests and killing whatever i can find i noticed that without the  WW scroll there is no way to pass the map  

P.S. i will dl the map+game from wherever you say if the problem is there just give me a link or something

Thanks in advance.
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JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted October 12, 2011 03:35 PM

Did you see this Rumor of the Day?

"They say those who like to fight Azure Dragons can walk on water!  A miner told me he heard some Azures through the walls of his mine, in a land of bones."

The Rumors of the Day are mentioned at the start of a new game:

"Right-click the Systems Options button for a Help Menu, compiled by people who have played the game, parsed the scripts, and examined the map.  It is intended to save you  time learning unique features of this game.

...

The Rumor of the Day gives hints about some of the difficult quests.  The hints may or may not be useful as they were intended to be clues rather than spoilers.  Don't let them drive you crazy."

If you still can't find the Azures, open the map in the WoG Map Editor  (H3WMAPED), and look at x=71, y=48, L=0 (surface).  (As the Rumors of the Day mention, there are many hidden things in Jianghu.)

(I think this question has already been answered previously on this thread.  There might be other useful information given previously also.)


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pogolqm
pogolqm

Tavern Dweller
posted October 12, 2011 04:33 PM

that Rummor thing did help .. i went around that mine for some time until i found it ... thanks alot .. i think the first time i did the map there was some monster spown over the there next to the place  so i never checked twice there.  Thanks and now i can start from the the top to see the map once again
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pogolqm
pogolqm

Tavern Dweller
posted October 17, 2011 11:35 PM

why is that even when i choose the option on the Banshee to not cast spells (right click on the wait button in battle) it still cast Disrubting ray 5 times in a row   i really can lose a battle this way ... Am i doing something wrong ?
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