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Rafister
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 02, 2012 11:55 PM |
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Edited by Rafister at 23:56, 02 May 2012.
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Quote:
Update - do you recall seeing this message?
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Xixingdafa is the Way of Absorbing Chi from an enemy in battle.
Chi (soul energy) may only be absorbed from a living creature with a soul.
You may choose one of the creatures in your army to learn Xixingdafa.
Absorbing Chi requires intense focus, so other martial effects will be lost, such as Lightning Strike, Acid Breath, Buddha's Palm (deathstare), and Eight-Fold Way (strike foes on all sides at once).
The fee varies from 7 level-1 creatures to 1 level-7 creature.^;
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That is, if you give a creature Gem's vampiric ability, it loses Acid Breath and strike-all-around. Would that explain your problem?
I restarted the game and that was it, silly mistake and easy to avoid next time(still weird I had that fight with all the abilities at the same time, i guess the game "caught up" with me). Well at least now i know. Thanks you very much.
I'm still saddened by the fact that i couldn't get diamond dragons to work as I wanted them to(maybe the description on the life drain skill is incomplete or blocking is considered a "martial skill"), since without the blocking skill they don't look so appealing to me, guess I might try sticking to SAA,Hell Barons or Ghost Behemots , though i'd really like to know a list of skills that are lost uppon getting life drain, some of these monsters are only as good as the skills they offer.
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted May 03, 2012 12:09 AM |
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Remind
Rafister,just to remind you:
The SAA losing the ability of no retaliation is an option from the begining of the game(to have or not to have it).
And for Diamond dragons somehow this ability works without notifying the player how it works.(You may check its description).
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Rafister
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 03, 2012 12:58 AM |
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Quote:
Rafister,just to remind you:
The SAA losing the ability of no retaliation is an option from the begining of the game(to have or not to have it).
And for Diamond dragons somehow this ability works without notifying the player how it works.(You may check its description).
Yes I saw the option on no retaliate just now when starting the game, I usually try to play everything by default so I wasn't paying it any mind (until now, heh), I guess i kinda forgot seing how long this map can be and how rare SAA are...
Also I'm not very sure I understood you correctly when it comes to the ability on Diamond dragons working but not notifying me how it works, does that mean that he Diamond Dragon is actually blocking (like dracoliches for instance) but the game is not showing the animation to me? Or that the ability is lost upon gaining life drain?
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JimV
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted May 03, 2012 03:25 AM |
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I have done some tests in a test map, and have come to a startling conclusion. Here is what the Diamond Dragon Experience Screen shows:
My Creature Checker script is:
ZVSE
* Creature Checker
!?CM2; click on Hero screen
!!CM:F?v1 I?v2; get flag and clicked object values
!!FU|v1<>512/v2<68/v2>74:E; exit if not right-click or not creature slot
!!VRv2:-68; now v2=slot # from 0 to 6
!!HE-1:C0/v2/?y1/?y2/?y3/2; y1=type, y2=no., y3=experience
!!FU&y2<1:E;
!!MA:Uy1/?y4 Ly1/?y5; y4=upgrade for creature, y5=level
!!MA:Fy1/?y6 Hy1/?y7 Iy1/?y8; y6=fight value, y7="adventure map high", y8="AI value"
!!IF:M^Creature type = %Y1, Upgrade = %Y4, Level = %Y5,
Fight = %Y6, Map High = %Y7, AI value = %Y8.^;
!!EAy1:B6/d/?y9/?y10/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d;
!!IF:M^EA Line 6: code=%Y9, modifier=%Y10^;
!!EAy1:B7/d/?y9/?y10/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d;
!!IF:M^EA Line 7: code=%Y9, modifier=%Y10^;
!!EAy1:B8/d/?y9/?y10/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d;
!!IF:M^EA Line 8: code=%Y9, modifier=%Y10^;
!!EAy1:B9/d/?y9/?y10/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d;
!!IF:M^EA Line 9: code=%Y9, modifier=%Y10^;
!!EAy1:B10/d/?y9/?y10/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d;
!!IF:M^EA Line 10: code=%Y9, modifier=%Y10^;
!!EAy1:B11/d/?y9/?y10/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d;
!!IF:M^EA Line 11: code=%Y9, modifier=%Y10^;
It shows this for the Diamond Dragon:
That is, a modifier of 200, instead of the expected value of 99 for a 100% chance. In battle, as commented above, there is no "Deflect" animation, even when the DD is at level 10 (50%) - and no apparent damage reduction.
I changed the EA:B line 6 to this:
!#EA151:B6/1/76/99/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d; Diamond Dragon correct Deflect?
This shows the same description in the Experience Screen (100% chance to deflect a part of the damage = 50% of damage at level 10), but in battle it shows the Deflection animation and reduces the damage - except it does the reverse of the Experience Screen description (and ERM Help description!). The battle scroll message says there was a 50% chance to deflect 100% of the damage (and this seems to be the case).
I conclude, perhaps too hastily:
1) The description of the ability in the Experience Screen and in ERM Help is wrong (% chance and % damage switched).
2) The built-in value for the Diamond Dragon's modifier parameter (200) is bad and prevents the ability from working. Reducing it to 99 gives a (level-value)% chance of deflecting 100% of the damage. Alternately, one could set the modifier at 49 and the level 10 value to 100 to give a 100% chance of deflecting 50% of the damage (at level 10 experience; level 0 should be 0%, level 1 10%, and so on).
Note that the built-in modifier value of 200 implies that 201% of the damage could be deflected, which is not a sensible value.
What should be done? It could be argued that Woodmelon tested TDS with this same "feature", but since I think Gem is fairly difficult I would be inclined to correct the DD Deflection to
!#EA151:B6/1/76/49/0/10/20/30/40/50/60/70/80/90/100; Diamond Dragon Deflection Correction
(100% chance of deflecting 50% of damage at level 10.)
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Rafister
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 03, 2012 05:07 AM |
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Edited by Rafister at 05:09, 03 May 2012.
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Well many thanks for the testing JimV , I restarted my quest with Gem (this time at least i tried the starter hero boost on gem, wich compared to the hulk bonus [only other hero I have tried so far], was frankly disapointing, since a second henchman at level 5 is quite a big deal compared to the celestial necklace, at least for me  ), but this time I think I'll go with the Dendroid Soldiers and Phoenixs as henchmans , I'll try to use Diamond Dragons later in the game but knowing that they can't block atm (at least not something I can do about it because I can't code for my life) will just make me use something else I'm guess, wich is too bad because that blocking skill has to be one of the most annoying features to ever reach HoMM3 for me and I was looking forward to using it against my enemies.
Again thanks for performing the test, at least I know its not something with my game 
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JimV
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted May 03, 2012 05:40 AM |
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I have added the Diamond Dragon Deflection Correction to Gem's script in TDS versions 2.07J and 2.07Dr (leaving 2.07E the way Woodmelon designed it), at http://www.box.com/shared/bj1eh6b50e .
Gem gets a couple of other bonuses besides the Necklace (compare starts with and without that option to see). The Necklace gives her a chance to use her Resurrection spell effectively at the start of the game. I am a long-time fan of Doctor Who and the Hulk, which may have biased my ideas.
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Rafister
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 03, 2012 05:58 AM |
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Quote:
I have added the Diamond Dragon Deflection Correction to Gem's script in TDS versions 2.07J and 2.07Dr (leaving 2.07E the way Woodmelon designed it), at http://www.box.com/shared/bj1eh6b50e .
Gem gets a couple of other bonuses besides the Necklace (compare starts with and without that option to see). The Necklace gives her a chance to use her Resurrection spell effectively at the start of the game. I am a long-time fan of Doctor Who and the Hulk, which may have biased my ideas.
Thanks a lot! I'll give this a go ASAP.
From my short experience in this map,I usually cannot use resurrection all that much in the first week anyway because I am pretty much forced to clean the starting area as fast as I can (and sadly,all of my resurrection spells end up on that damned 2nd henchman because every single archer / fast flier likes to one shot them). Its kinda too bad you are forced to have such a hasted rythim sometimes (makes upgrading the first aid tent pretty much impossible for me), also damn the well near rampart town for being placed in such an odd angle .
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted May 03, 2012 09:25 AM |
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:)
Rafister,if you answer to the post just above yours,dont quotate it,just post reply using the button under the thread(that are the rules here in HC).
JimV,thank you for your checking and implementing the changes in the versions J and Dr! Great job as always!Someday if I decide to begin scripting,I may ask you to teach me some things!
I have other things to play and to do now,so I will play TDS again some later time,but I will check this thread for news!
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JimV
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted May 03, 2012 02:53 PM |
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Master_Learn, thanks as always for your support. There are a lot of very impressive, new mods to play currently, so it is not surprising that there are not many people who are spending much time on TDS.
I played Heroes (1-3) for about ten years before I learned ERM. It is challenging, not as much fun as playing used to be, but a way to maintain my interest after I had played all the maps on the CD's two or three times.
My advice to anyone who wishes to learn ERM is that the ERM Help document is the best computer manual I have ever learned from, and that the best way to use it is to read the entire document. For a couple reasons: sometimes what you don't understand in one section is explained more fully in another; it gives you an overall picture (vague at first) of the sorts of things which can be done which is useful in planning scripts; and when you later want to look up how to do some specific task, you have a vague idea of where you read it, and can find it easily (along with the Ctrl-F Find command).
The next most important advice I can give is to try commands in test maps, and if the first method you try does not work the way you thought it would, try a different method. (There are lots of different ways to do things in ERM.)
Well, we all have our own ideas of how best to do things, but those have worked fairly well for me.
And of course if you have specific questions about some ERM procedure I will try to answer them (please bear in mind that my first thoughts on a complicated issue are often wrong).
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted May 03, 2012 03:41 PM |
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Promise
JimV,I promise you this-I will read Erm Help 3 times before asking my first Erm related question to you!
I cant say when-I visit HC from a player point of view mostly(keeping one eye for things that I dont understand,but yet i see such abilities are wanted).
I slowly come to the idea that writing code is good thing for me to do and very useful to other HC members that write code.
Maybe if I learn how to write code-this will be a way to show my respect to those who do all this hard work...
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majaczek
Supreme Hero
Work at Magic Dimmension
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posted May 03, 2012 03:46 PM |
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Edited by majaczek at 16:02, 03 May 2012.
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Thanks JimV for reply!
yeah SU has it own bugs, and doesn't fix bugs from normal 3.58f. the latter is a reason to include your fixes in SU-alike script pack. My merged_SU is hoped to fix all old bugs from 3.58f you fixed but SU not, while having features of SU.
the problem with claimed list can be easily resolved for global variables, since ERA gives almost unlimited amount of new type variables (however those are harder to use). good point that freeing variables which are not on 3.58f claimed list can help a much since there's not only random maps. For the function to resolve conflict it is just needed to change the number to something extremely high (ERA has almost unlimited amount of function indexes, and it works exactly like old functions).
Sorry you didn't understand, but I wasn't mean to fix bugs with my savegame. I was meant to fix a script pack which would retain goodies of JimV/another ERA fixes and Script Update, so everybody won't have bugs and can use it freely with ERA. Since there left some not-so-trivial bugs in my package (my work is mostly merging and compability) and I didn't overcome them yet (having even problems to reproduce any bug while another peaople get game breaking bugs from it) - I ask you - an elder in experience - for help to make this as I/we want but I didn't managed yet to do it way. The usage of ERA is granted, so there's no need to avoid ERA specific commands.
Would you give me a hand for such project which overcomed me? I hope you will cooperate (or even take yourself if you prefer) for fixes to let-be-official pack of wogify script - since you already did some fixes for 3.58f classic wogify.
If you think this topic is bad place for such discussion point me another place so I won't suffer from my offtopic/sidetopic practices.
PS: first please have a look what I already achieved on this topic - http://mir.cr/0KZD8OOO and http://mir.cr/0GWDM7KK seems to be last version link (first one is installer the second one is 7z package). then comment on my progress and say if you already want to help (I hope so, but I have no right to force you to).
EDIT: I hope my phrases were enough respectful. On the Stack experience feature I also think it have many hidden bugs. My approach to unlock SE for Commander using Bersy's UN:C/Binmagic codes uncoveres a bit of them in first few tests (No wonder since the features was never meant to work together). The bug I got seems like hidden (not shown directly) part of similair to SE mechanism work (Commander got Poison without ability/SE, commander with Death Stare ability get Death stare with original Enchanced Commander script ON which is meant to replace it with Poison). So I guess there many well hidden bugs in hardcoded SE support, but just people failed to reproduce any conscosciculy so long time. Since even with my approach on commanders some SE features still doesn't work, I believe there's a bug which may trigger another ability instead of official one (one table shades another? Bug in checking conditions? Something more exotic?).
PS: where to speak about me wanting you to help me with merged_SU beast?
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JimV
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted May 03, 2012 06:07 PM |
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Edited by JimV at 18:09, 03 May 2012.
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I don't have a final position so this won't be a conclusive and definitive response, just a collection of issues and thoughts:
1) Email is one way to exchange information rapidly in a collaboration. Box.net also allows collaborators to share online files. Email can be initiated through the HC membership list, but I am not sure I can support an extensive collaboration at this time.
2) The WoG Team had many talented scripters, and they had direct access to Slava to understand (and modify) ERM. The thought of two people accomplishing in a few months what they could not accomplish in years is frankly intimidating and implausible. (I don't know about you, but I am not a better scripter than Fnord.)
3) The only hope I would have for making progress would be to attack one bug at a time, using saved games which exhibit problems, and depending on a user community to report bugs and supply the saved games. That would be the ideal case, but failing that, the conditions which produced the bugs must be reported in enough detail so that test maps can be used to reproduce the problem. The worst case, and least likely to succeed, is simply staring at the code and hoping to conceive of all possible problems.
4) On a personal note, I am about half-way done with an Era 2 mod called "The King In Yellow", and would like to finish it before spending much energy on another large project.
5) As I struggle to come up with a concrete proposal, the best I can think of so far is this: a new thread for Era script problems, where users could report bugs (and be asked to provide saved games, if possible). I would agree to investigate such bugs on a case-by-case basis (along with other contributors), similar to what I do here for TDS or in the ERM Help thread. As the movie "The Field of Dreams" said, "If you start it [the thread], they will come." That is, there are a lot of very talented people (Bersy, Solitaire345, Salamandre, etc., etc.) who would probably contribute to such a thread.
6) I am sorry as this is probably not the degree of cooperation which you hoped for, but I don't want to make a large commitment which I probably would not be able to fulfill.
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majaczek
Supreme Hero
Work at Magic Dimmension
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posted May 04, 2012 03:24 PM |
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Edited by majaczek at 15:24, 04 May 2012.
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Okay topic started: http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=37585&pagenumber=1
if mysterious bugs are not your favorite hunt prey, any other script issues you may/want to fix - are awaiting you. Like the topic said - no pressure/demanding - just gently asking for help.
PS: if you want add more important rules to the topic, you are welcome - since my experience in leading communities is very low. And yeah question i given was wrongly phrased, because there may be some bugs which do not require helper to be Fnord or Sagamosa to fix it. Just were speaking I believe you can help even with most mysterious ones.
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jonj
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 04, 2012 01:01 AM |
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Edited by jonj at 01:04, 04 Jun 2012.
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Hi guys.
I have got some problems with my second henchman. When he gain level 30- he became immortal- or so. I gave him resurection abillity and everything worked pretty well untill he doesn't became 30- level unit. After that he resurrect in the battle infinite times.
here is my save file.
Maybe somone could help.
Thank's for advance.
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JimV
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted June 04, 2012 05:05 AM |
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Interesting. The Lord-of-Thunder Second-Henchman has Rebirth, and gets reborn (like a Phoenix) 25 times. The "Second Henchman Part 1" script only adds 1 to the LoT's spell count (BM:Ed1), but it turns out a Lord of Thunder starts with BM:E=24! I wonder if Woodmelon knew this. (I did not, until I tested just now.) Probably not, so I have added a patch to the saved game to set the spell count to 5 (5 rebirths).
My first guess was that the spell count is used for the LoT's lightning strikes (in melee combat), but the count did not change in my tests when the LoT cast Lightning.
The patched saved-game is at https://www.box.com/shared/bj1eh6b50e (the usual place).
I will add a similar fix to the TDS maps, but first wait a bit to see if there are alternate suggestions for the BM:E value.
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jonj
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 04, 2012 12:54 PM |
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Thank's a LoT. Now work pretty good. You know? Game with henchman resurected 25 times per battle is too easy. 5 times is enough for me.
But now I have got other problem... With weaker second henchman I can't defeat scharpshooters protecting palace of dreams. 
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JimV
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted June 04, 2012 01:15 PM |
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Edited by JimV at 13:29, 05 Jun 2012.
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Quote:
Thanks a LoT.
(I see what you did there.)
Some Santa Gremlin troops might provide almost as many cannon-fodder targets for the Sharpshooters, especially if you move them forward in the Tactics rounds so that they will have guards on all sides - but I am sure you will find a solution.
I think in this game that the Collar, Ring, and Cape of Conjuring and the Ring of the Magi add to creature spell-counts - another possibility. Good luck.
Update - since there have been no objections, all three versions of TDS at https://www.box.com/shared/bj1eh6b50e have been updated with the following command added to the Map Options script:
!#MA:B152/4; LoT had 24 spells, gave 25 Rebirths as 2H-->5--JHV
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jonj
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 06, 2012 10:23 PM |
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Edited by jonj at 23:13, 06 Jun 2012.
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Thank's for advice. It's working. I've sacreficed 1200 santa gremlins and 15 LoT's but palace of dream is mine.
Unfortunetely previous problem come back again. Probably when my second henchman riched level 40 he again resurected in battle 25 times.
How to resolve this problem permanently? Maybe better remove resurection abillity? Or change second henchman unit?
Just in case here http://depositfiles.com/files/6xnzn89bg is my save file again.
Edit: Sorry for mess. I'm dead sure- when I played yesterday fighting with Azrael- my second henchmen resurect infinite (more than 5) times. Today after the battle with Azrael I've checked resurection second henchmen ability with casual map creature and everything worked well (5 resurections). I dont know what's wrong...
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JimV
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted June 07, 2012 02:34 AM |
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The patch I made to the previous saved-game was a quick thought which reset the spell count for the Second Henchman of the attacking Hero in battle, which assumed Orrin would always be the attacker, for simplicity. If Orrin is the defender, it would not work. The fix I applied to the TDS maps, given above, is a more robust one, but to implement it in an existing game it must not be in instruction (!#) form, but like this:
!?CM0&-49; right-click on Adventure Map (flag 49 is not used in the map)
!!MA:B152/4; reset basic creature spell count for all LoT
!!IF:V49/1; disable the above trigger so this is only executed once
I have added this patch to the current saved game, right-clicked on the map, checked that flag 49 was now set with Bersy's EVME, re-saved the game, and uploaded to Box.net (https://www.box.com/shared/bj1eh6b50e). So if I didn't make some mistake there should only be 5 Rebirths for Lords of Thunder in all circumstances for that game.
I hope this is sufficient, because it is the last time I will download from that site. My virus protection doesn't like it, and neither do I. A 60-second wait, two captchas to type, and the advertisements are ... objectionable. Box.net and wikisend are free, fast, and unobjectionable.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted June 07, 2012 02:48 AM |
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Wouldn't be easier to update the ERA version, instead of working on each save, a permanent fix will be applied to main script, reload, F12, voila...?
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This thread is pages long: 
