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Ebonite
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 02, 2010 02:19 PM |
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I like the artwork, having these as the top unit will provide a nice change as well. Would assume Arch demons are a teir 8 creature? or a hireable hero.
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hahakocka
Known Hero
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posted November 02, 2010 04:13 PM |
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The Pit lord must be an elite unit or the most big core unit because the other factions have there first 3-5 unit also in screenshots.
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odium
Known Hero
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posted November 02, 2010 04:34 PM |
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What can I say other than GREAT JOB  . I believe that this is the most successful concept art thus far.
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted November 02, 2010 04:45 PM |
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Quote:
The Pit lord must be an elite unit or the most big core unit because the other factions have there first 3-5 unit also in screenshots.
They revealed elite units of Necropolis before the core units, there's no logic in this.
Pit Fiend is champion, Juggernaut is elite and Hellhound is core.
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted November 02, 2010 04:47 PM |
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Quote:
The Pit lord must be an elite unit or the most big core unit because the other factions have there first 3-5 unit also in screenshots.
Their description says that besides a few Archdemons, they are the strongest Inferno creatures, so they most likely are the champions.
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mytheroes
Famous Hero
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posted November 02, 2010 04:50 PM |
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Well, the Necropolis units that are revealed so far we already know from the gameplay screenshots/videos even before they are officially revealed and the remaining two are pretty obvious (from the svetlana picture).
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blizz
Known Hero
of temper grace
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posted November 02, 2010 05:30 PM |
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 Cant believe i was actually right and the devils were really kicked from inferno lineup! 
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted November 02, 2010 06:42 PM |
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So almost certainly no Devils... Maybe they will be bosses though. In any case, I'm pretty curious whether the MMH:VI edition of the Pit Fiends will be similar to the HoMM V ones. I hope not...
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted November 02, 2010 09:16 PM |
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Quote:
@Nelgrith
most dangerous =/= most powerful
Maybe not, but it's safe to assume that is what it implies.
Particularly as it would be odd for them to add Devils as a Champion unit and then claim that whilst they are more powerful, they are less dangerous. 
I sort of understand where you're coming from, it's not set in stone anywhere but it's highly likely.
Devils might be delegated to "Magic Hero" duty, a boss or purely story purposes.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 02, 2010 09:19 PM |
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Pit fiends are really cool but im soooooooooooooooo sad they got rid of the Devils then if this is true. ;((((((
lets hope they dont go with the spellcaster/melee creature hybrid that was the H5 pit lord
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted November 02, 2010 09:28 PM |
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Quote:
Pit fiends are really cool but im soooooooooooooooo sad they got rid of the Devils then if this is true. ;((((((
lets hope they dont go with the spellcaster/melee creature hybrid that was the H5 pit lord
I hope they do, they were my favorite creature, EVER. (And I do mean, EVER, in any Heroes game.)
They were the foundation and cornerstone of all my HV, Inferno escapades.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted November 02, 2010 10:46 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 22:46, 02 Nov 2010.
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The Heroes V Pit Fiends/Lords were also both slow and incredibly unresponsive and spent most of the battle either taking much more damage than they can deliver or just watching the action from aside. They were also relatively bad casters in the late game. Their usefulness was almost entirely based on the large numbers provided by Expert Gating and the Arch Devils' special + Vorpal Sword in certain scenarios. Not quite spectacular for tier 6 creature. The Pit Spawn from TotE - a purely melee-combat-oriented creature - almost always was clearly superior to the hybrid Pit Lord. If they are now Champions, they'll have to do much better.
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted November 02, 2010 10:57 PM |
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Edited by MrDragon at 22:58, 02 Nov 2010.
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Initiative is out, so that helps.
Also I did always focus init arties whenever possible, so I never noticed, Pit's were one of my primary damage sources, especially gating them into melee and bombarding clustered formations with fireballs.
With initiative out of the picture, they should be fine.
Edit: Initiative now only controls turn order, not turn frequency.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted November 02, 2010 11:50 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 23:52, 02 Nov 2010.
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The previous initiative system is out, but they could still be slow both in terms of movement range and placing among the other creatures during each round (acting last or among the last). I hate the idea of top tier creature, which can not participate in the battle as frequently as at least the averagely fast lower tiers - this sound especially bad for Inferno, which have always been quite fast and maneuverable compared to the other factions. This is why I think we need a new Pit Fiend/Lord gameplay concept (if the thing is indeed a Champion of course - it wouldn't be that problematic if it turns to be Elite).
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mytheroes
Famous Hero
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posted November 03, 2010 01:51 AM |
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Quote:
Surpassed in their violent natures by only the most vehement Arch Demons, Pitfiends are the most dangerous creatures found in the Infernal legions.
Quote:
I'd focus more on the second part of the sentence
For those who still thinks Pit Fiends/Lords are not the new champion, above is Elvin obvious hint.
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted November 03, 2010 08:59 AM |
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Edited by MrDragon at 09:06, 03 Nov 2010.
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Quote:
The previous initiative system is out, but they could still be slow both in terms of movement range and placing among the other creatures during each round (acting last or among the last). I hate the idea of top tier creature, which can not participate in the battle as frequently as at least the averagely fast lower tiers - this sound especially bad for Inferno, which have always been quite fast and maneuverable compared to the other factions. This is why I think we need a new Pit Fiend/Lord gameplay concept (if the thing is indeed a Champion of course - it wouldn't be that problematic if it turns to be Elite).
All the more reason to let him stay a Hybrid, now more then ever.
That way he can nuke before the gap closes, even better if he can fire 2 spells before upgrading and 3 and/or advanced spells after.
We have had way to many boring melee champions anyway.
Closest we got was in HV with Cyclopses and their various uses for Goblins + larger AoE swipe then the usual dragon breath.
And Titans being primarily shooters after the upgrade.
The rest, even if they had an activated ability, it was situational mostly and always a 1shot, leaving your unit a bit... well depleted after that single ability.
I'm sincerely hoping we'll get some more, interesting champions then just 5 Flying/Teleporting melee monsters, 1 Melee fatty, 1 Shooter and the Cyclops which was the only creature that reliably had 3 different things to do with it's turn.
Of the previous 7 only 3 had interesting activated abilities after upgrading, and those were 1 shot abilities.
I'm not suggesting all champions should conform to the highly versatile build, Black Dragons are still pretty unique with their total magic immunity for example, and Titans are already deviations from the norm.
But having the champions behave somewhat more different in combat would be nice.
I'm also hoping the Necro Champion is our first true spellcaster Champion.
But... to each his own, maybe if it turns out anything like I'm suggesting, it will be horrible, but maybe, just maybe, it might work better then the previous titles.
We'll just have to sit tight and see.
Edit: I'm feeling pretty confident we'll get some kind of announcement from Igromir between today and saturday.
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted November 03, 2010 09:46 AM |
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- If Pit Fiend was not Champion, then the description wouldn't have added the second part of the sentence, which does imply it's the most dangerous creature that can be controlled in an Inferno army.
- Those who say it's not a "proper" level 7 creature, I think the point here is that the Champion will not stand out as much as the level 7 creatures used to be, they still want you to use the rest of the army (and yes I do feel this is kinda related to the Dragon-tone down movement).
- I'm sure it's going to be faster than in H5 and might even get the teleport special.
- Devils are out because making a more "serious" look for them is redundant with Pit Fiends and Juggernauts already in the picture. It was easier to revamp the Pit Fiend as the artwork proves that.
- Not sure if Necropolis Champion will be the only proper spellcaster, if Academy is in, they might reinvent their lines a bit and use a high level spellcaster, plus the brand new faction might be aiming to have another spellcaster as well. And wasn't it already hinted that the flyer is the actual Champion in Necropolis?
- Rest of Inferno: still think/hope Imps are out, but now I expect Succubi to be retained for H6 and possibly even Nightmares. That leaves room for a flyer and another low level creature (which can easily be a small demon like the Imp was).
- I also expect revelation from Igromir.
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted November 03, 2010 09:54 AM |
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Edited by MrDragon at 09:56, 03 Nov 2010.
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Quote:
- Not sure if Necropolis Champion will be the only proper spellcaster, if Academy is in, they might reinvent their lines a bit and use a high level spellcaster, plus the brand new faction might be aiming to have another spellcaster as well. And wasn't it already hinted that the flyer is the actual Champion in Necropolis?
Not that I know of, and I think it would make more sense for an "Avatar of Asha" to be the Champion, and not their Sphinx construct.
The hint I did get was the "Mother Namtaru" reference which suggested the spider women would be the Champion.
Can't recall were.
Judging by the Sveltana art piece, the Avatar of Asha (presuming that's her name) seems quite a magical creature, lacking any body parts or weapons that seem suited for melee combat, except maybe her front spider legs but that would make her arms a bit redundant.
Edit: It's mentioned in the Campaign info on the News and Information topic.
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted November 03, 2010 09:56 AM |
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Edited by Danny at 09:56, 03 Nov 2010.
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I agree with all that, but I think when Elvin said the flyer unit is Mesopotamian influenced, he did say it was their Champion unit, although that might not have been confirmed at the time.
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted November 03, 2010 09:58 AM |
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Quote:
I agree with all that, but I think when Elvin said the flyer unit is Mesopotamian influenced, he did say it was their Champion unit, although that might not have been confirmed at the time.
A Llamasu then.
Still think I trust the official campaign reference more.
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