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LongDarkBlues
Hired Hero
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posted March 03, 2011 02:15 AM |
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Honestly guys, the complaining about Cerberus's heads is nonsense - besides not being strictly always 3-headed, his mythological double, Orthrus, is a 2-headed dog and often in parallel stories. Why aren't you complaining about previous Heroes depictions lacking a snake tail and Medusa-snake mane? That's part of the myth, too. It's fantasy - it does not have to adhere to a particular interpretation of anything, even its own lore.
http://images.google.com/images?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hl=en&source=imghp&biw=1920&bih=887&q=Orthrus&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=g6g-m2&aql=&oq=
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I'll hold to the fact that H3 felt a lot more 'epic', because the hero was obviously a symbol, rather than as in H5, where the towns looked liked tows because most of the environment was scaled to the 'hero' rather than to them.
If things are scaled to the Hero in H6, the horses are the size of an entire sawmill.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted March 03, 2011 02:27 AM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 02:32, 03 Mar 2011.
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Quote:
In H3 I only played hotseat but all things considered.. Luck, maps and artifacts - magic heroes were pretty damn good. I mean unless a might hero got the awesomesauce earth/air magic with the right spells he could be in disadvantage unless the game dragged on too long. Either way that's not to be taken literally. And by that I mean plenty of spells were overpowered or plain broken to the point of winning games by themselves. So BH is trying to make magic equally important with might in combat so that you cannot OMGWTFBBQ your opponent with spells only, what's so bad about that? It feels like we're splitting hairs here. Everyone's got a point, it's simply a matter of whether you're taking things on absolute terms.
The only spell in Heroes III that was grossly overpowered in the late game was Implosion. Maybe Chain Lightning could be considered pretty nasty too, but after 3 months the armies are usually big enough to eat several such "chains" and still be able to put a fight. All non-direct-damage spells were equally accessible to both Might and Magic heroes and as it literally takes 4-5 Spell Power to effectively use Slow, Haste, Blind, etc. if you only have Expert level of the respective magic school (which is usually easy) no matter whether the hero is a mage or a warrior. If we bring the artifacts into the equation - well, they can give significant spellcasting boost to a Might hero and battle competence to a Magic hero so if you have Helm of Heavenly Enlightment, Sword of Judgment and Lion's Shield of Courage, it does't matter what's the class of your hero when he/she has +15 to all primary stats.
Anyway - I strongly disagree that the Magic heroes were more powerful than the Might heroes before. That they certainly were not, at least not in a decently long game. With the primary stats "sacked" from Heroes VI though, maybe the difference between the two main classes will be... well, different so it's early to tell how they are gonna be balanced. My concern is that since they say that the Magic heroes were dominating before, then their experience is pretty limited at best and may result in bad balance. What I DON'T want to see is a game focused on MP games that are supposed to finish in the end of month 1 or 2 at most because the people responsible for the balance can't be bothered with late game considerations. And Magic certainly wasn't overpowered as opposed to Might in a long Heroes V game, on the contrary.
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Willis
Known Hero
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posted March 03, 2011 02:52 AM |
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No, but I would have preferred a few less changes than what they've given us.
Okay, that's fair. I thought Heroes in combat was pretty fun, although obviously not balanced. But that feature would never have happened if Heroes 4 hadn't taken some risks. Same thing with the WOG experience feature. I'm hoping some of the risks they're taking in H6 will change the game for the better. I guess you don't think they sound promising, which is fine. I'm very excited about most of the changes they've discussed. Maybe people will love them. If not, they'll try something different in the next version. I just never want them to play it too safe, because then I might as well not buy the game.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted March 03, 2011 04:28 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 07:44, 03 Mar 2011.
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I guess you don't think they sound promising, which is fine.
It's not that I don't them (although I don't like some of them I have to admit), it's just, well take the Zone of Control thing for example, I think it's mostly a good idea, the only real fly in the jam for me is the fact that you auto-grab everything back as soon as the enemy steps away from the mine. The way I'd play that is to allow you send a few garrison creatures out without a hero to grab the mine back.
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I just never want them to play it too safe, because then I might as well not buy the game.
Agreed, no sequel should ever be a carbon-copy of the previous game, but nor should it be too different, and IMO, what with the new tier system, the new skill system, the new reduced number of resources etc. H6 is stepping just a bit beyond the pale.
There are a few changes of my own I'd like to suggest:
* The ability to temporarily recruit and unrecruited creatures for siege defence at 1/2 their normal purchase cost.
* Towers in Siege combat count as 'units'.
* Boarding/unboarding from a ship takes 10 movement points tops (or the rest of the day if you have fewer points left) rather than the rest of the day.
* Rather than a tiered system of recruitment, you get a flat limit (small at first, but raised by every dwelling, and some other buildings) to spend on recruitment and you can spend it any way you like, from all level 1 to all level 7, and any combination in between.
* You can no longer learn new skills when you level up, but to compensate, you can learn them from other heroes (costs both parties 8 movement for Basic and a full day for Advanced), plus Witch Huts are more numerous, and you can refuse them.
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted March 03, 2011 05:49 AM |
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Speaking of tier system, i only see it as watered down 7-levels system.
No particular reason for it, nor I see it changing much except limiting every creature into 3 predetermined power levels instead of more varied continuum.
Still, hope dies last. It might yet turn out good.
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Willis
Known Hero
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posted March 03, 2011 06:16 AM |
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Edited by Willis at 06:30, 03 Mar 2011.
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Evening out the power between the tiers will make lower level units more viable throughout the game, won't it? You won't have the equivalent of level 1's dying by the truckload and dealing pitiful damage, hopefully. I thought that was part of the rationale.
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted March 03, 2011 07:00 AM |
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Nice Q&A update! Summary of new stuff:
1. More than 200 spells (active & passive)
2. Around 150 artifacts (including 8 combo sets)
3. Morale - 2nd attack will be less powerful
4. Luck - will do 50% more damage (not double like H5)
5. Magic attack, Might attack, Magic defense, Might defense replaces the Primary abilities of H5 (attackm defense, spellpower, knowledge)
6. Town Portal - Basic and Advanced combination
7. Progress bar has 4 levels and different for each faction (Necro - raise dead, Orc - attack bonus)
8. Rally flags now on battlefield not on adventure map
9. The 8 neutrals will be 7 Elite and 1 Champion (Champion must be Phoenix)
A big difference is that each faction won't have access to all the magic schools.....that's why Slava magic screen only had 5 slots....so Haven probably doesn't have access to Prime and Dark..
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted March 03, 2011 07:46 AM |
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Quote:
Evening out the power between the tiers will make lower level units more viable throughout the game, won't it? You won't have the equivalent of level 1's dying by the truckload and dealing pitiful damage, hopefully. I thought that was part of the rationale.
Maybe things would go better if the tier 1s growth offset their low power (so 40-50 for every tier 7 unit, as opposed to 15-20).
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Kenishi
Famous Hero
passed out drunk in Tavern's
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posted March 03, 2011 08:39 AM |
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Edited by Kenishi at 08:42, 03 Mar 2011.
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First of all I don’t get what’s with all the whining, given it wasn’t a Naga reveal but still considering the way Ubi handled the news and media/information release so far, it gives us a lot of info and most important some clarification for the already known info.
1. A introduction …
2. Balance good to hear they emphasize this aspect.
3. Hmm interesting info so to make the first tier spells efficient even in late game they get a power boost when leveling up to advanced class, wonder how a hybrid development will work a blood/tears hero, so many option available can’t wait to tray them out.
4. Nothing new so guess the system is pretty much established.
5. So it’s pretty much confirmed that at a level up you get more than one point to spend in skills, also my fears that there will be few magic spells is gone 200 is a good number, again a good balance between schools is needed I’d hate to se a return of H3 earth and air being overpowered, if not overpowered much more of a choice when compared to water and fire.
6. Morale is explained in detail, MrDragon was on the right track, and I must say it’s good and also to know which creature will receives it makes the battle more strategic (some might say more predictable … rests in the eye of the beholder). Now moving on to luck, must say in H5 is powerful even a hero with a basic luck had at least one creature receiving it in a turn (although it was harder to now when a turn ended and a new one began) , a and it seams it was modified in early news it was said that it would only give you maximum dmg when triggered, so a 6-7% which goes up to 15% whit the hero level’s up is a bit underwhelming, but whit artifacts and skills influencing it will be ok, also taking in consideration that you might get up to 50% (supposing only) and dealing out 50% more dmg it will make it fare enough.
7. Most interesting news after the combat video of Sisters attacking earth golem (an some bits of hint) some people speculated that something is weird so now we no magic spell power will influence magic attack of the creatures while power attack the might attack, so some creatures are tank against physical attack while at the same time are weak against magic attack, so magic oriented factions creatures will have some emphasis on dealing more magic dmg will be interesting to see how it works in game also how will be implemented for a possible Academy faction .
8. The filling bar seen on some videos gets a bit explained also on how it works for different factions.
9. Known information bit now is definitely confirmed on how it works.
10. A bit of info on the so called “power nodes” for a better term that was seen on some screen shoots.
11. Yes there was present in H3 but will take a H5 approach like sylvan was dealing dmg and tie down the creatures, while the dwarfs would receive a rune like magic cast each time a enemy entered the moat etc.
The fan questions:
1. Inside beta already finished if not mistaken
2. Awesome news music is stunning from the ones presented so far so can’t say but I want, I want it on soundtrack CD also 2.5 Hours worth of music ….
3. Known but gives a example of one for the necromancers will see …
4. So it’s confirmed 8 players max for multiplayer
5. Mixed emotions about this one but if I think better he might refer to having lower starting resources compared to AI as cheating so again will see
6. Nothing new here.
7. The Town portal system and how it works, nice info.
8. Some clearing up here.
9. Booo, Nightterror already said there weren’t 5 factions for start
10. At list not all are elemental and the champion level could be the Phoenix as someone pointed out already.
11. Again as Nightterror already said
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Secondly I agree about the mythological thing, still calling it cerberus is stupid...
Over all it might not have been a bomb that every one expected but it had some useful information so I’m quite happy with it, taking in consideration that this was more of a fan effort, and await the revel of the 5 faction.
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No Gods, no Masters. Knowledge is Power, and Power is Freedom
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Sleeping_Sun
Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
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posted March 03, 2011 10:14 AM |
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Quote:
5. Magic attack, Might attack, Magic defense, Might defense replaces the Primary abilities of H5 (attackm defense, spellpower, knowledge)
If there is no knowledge and spells are like abilities then heroes don't have mana, right? But since we have seen heroes icon on the map with the mana, then what determines the amount of mana?  
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"The age can be wicked to those who walk alone. When I look into the Mirror, I see myself as I might become..." -Freya
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted March 03, 2011 11:13 AM |
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There was no big announcement, but some interesting tidbits :
Morale and Luck :
I LOVE how they've been tuned down. They're still interesting, but less overpowered (on the paper at least).
I HATE that you see what unit will have morale in a turn. It makes no sense and I loved being surprised by a good morale trigger 
Control Zone :
It's interesting but I still have an issue with the auto-flagging. If Player 1 enters a neutral territory, captures a gold mine and leaves. If later Player 2 enters the territory and captures the Fort, he should still have to go manually flag the gold mine in order to link it to the fort. It technically still belongs to Player 1.
Physical/Magic Attack/Defense :
Interesting. This should make playing a hero or a magic hero much different since the might hero will boost his physical units and the magic hero will boost his magical units. A priest hero would emphasize the use of Sisters and Glories, while a knight hero would emphasize the use of Crossbowmen and Crusaders.
Racial ability :
I'm a bit surprised that it's not Haven who's filling his racial gauge with damage taken. I expected Necropolis to fill it with units dieing on the battelfield.
Initiative :
Kinda disappointed that morale won't affect initiative.
Town Portal :
I can accept the Basic Town Portal if there's a movement penalty, but the Advanced Town Portal is plain retarded, especially for multiplayer games.
Auras :
So auras will change according to the player controlling the territory ... seriously ? So we'll have the mines pointing towards a control point and creatures showing who is controlling the territory ? Next step will be a pannel showing "You're now entering XXX's territory!" ...
8 neutrals :
It's way too few ... Not only it's too few, but they're all freaking elementals ... Also saying that there weren't more than that in previous episods is pure laziness and a poor excuse.
Cerberus :
I'm kinda appaled that this question got selected ... Seriously was there nothing more interesting to ask ? I mean, if someone doesn't like the Cerberus name, he can surely mod the name like in H5 ...
That said, saying they wanted to create their own coherent universe and then having a 2 headed Cerberus in H6, but 3-headed in H5 kinda kills their coherence  It's not like we would have shouted at them if the H6 Cerberus was 3-headed 
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lordriton
Known Hero
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posted March 03, 2011 12:17 PM |
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I still play, Almost every day, a random H3.5 (WoG) map.
Will H6 replace my all beloved H3 ? I hope it soo much !
But of course for that to happen there will need to be a great RMG ! and if possible integrated in the game like in H3, not like in H5 please !
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Sorry for my miserable english, i'm french.
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dark-whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted March 03, 2011 12:21 PM |
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I have a question. If someone takes mine in your area of control and leaves 1 core unit as guard, that mine stays in his/her possession, right? So whole idea that mines return to owner of area can be easily avoided by leaving minimal troops. Or mines cannot be guarded by troops without hero?
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soul_blighter
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 03, 2011 12:37 PM |
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Quote:
I have a question. If someone takes mine in your area of control and leaves 1 core unit as guard, that mine stays in his/her possession, right? So whole idea that mines return to owner of area can be easily avoided by leaving minimal troops. Or mines cannot be guarded by troops without hero?
i don't know about garrisoning yet but there was a piece of info earlier that said creatures cannot operate on the map without heroes in command. so that would make leaving a creature to guard impossible. not sure about garrisoning though.
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Kenishi
Famous Hero
passed out drunk in Tavern's
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posted March 03, 2011 02:36 PM |
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Quote:
I have a question. If someone takes mine in your area of control and leaves 1 core unit as guard, that mine stays in his/her possession, right? So whole idea that mines return to owner of area can be easily avoided by leaving minimal troops. Or mines cannot be guarded by troops without hero?
Not known as of yet, might be that you can do as you said or you might not be able to leave troops to guard the mine and this situation be avoided.What's known is that you would have to have a hero guarding the mine until you take the castle/fort that exercise the area effect upon the mines to be in control of it..
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No Gods, no Masters. Knowledge is Power, and Power is Freedom
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Willis
Known Hero
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posted March 03, 2011 03:29 PM |
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Edited by Willis at 15:29, 03 Mar 2011.
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I'm wondering how much the campaign and built-in maps will make use of neutral territories, where mines work as they did in the past. I wonder if their philosophy will be to have all areas under the control of a town or fort, or if they'll decide to have neutral contested areas in between territories. Perhaps they will mix it up depending on the map.
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kodial79
Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted March 03, 2011 04:02 PM |
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@kodial, play a few MP games and you'll see how wrong you are. The late game Might hero has access to the all the spells he needs and can use them pretty effectively and no matter how powerful are the spells of the Magic hero (if we aren't talking about abominations like Conflux + Armageddon), the latter is in serious disadvantage. The army of the mage usually gets slaughtered very fast and he can't use his spells with maximum efficiency. I know you will start inventing theories but let's just skip that part and move to an actual MP game if you want a proof.
You missed the point. I don't want the Might heroes having to be good spellcasters so they can stand up against Magic heroes. I wanted to make them learn skills such as offense, defense, archery, logistics, etc. which I think should be the primary focus of a might hero, and not skills such as sorcery, the various elemental magic schools, intelligence etc. But I was forced to be taking such a path with Might Heroes or else they would be easy targets.
This time around I would like the Might heroes to be able to beat Magic Heroes without having to use any magic spells. I would not even care if they couldn't, as long as they can do it without them.
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Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!
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Wckey
Famous Hero
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posted March 03, 2011 04:51 PM |
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Edited by Wckey at 16:53, 03 Mar 2011.
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I still don't understand why water elemental became neutral (according to the gameplay video) and glory still is a Haven's creature. Not that I'm complaining or anything, but we don't need to light elementals (a neutral and glory).
They could add upgrades to neutrals. That way we would have 16 neutrals (even if half of them were cheap).
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Come back soon, Elvin!
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vitorsly
Known Hero
Joker!
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posted March 03, 2011 05:04 PM |
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I think I know why the cerberus has now only 2 heads (and the hell hound also has 2)
Cerberi and hell hounds are a species (like human, dog, cat, monkey...) but in that same species there are atleast 3 different races: 1 headed, 2 headed and 3 headed (pitbull, poodle and bulldog)
H5 hell hound is one headed. H6 hell hound is 2 headed. H6 cerberus is 2 headed but with an armor. H5 cerberus is a 3 headed. H5 [insert H5 hell hound alternate upgrade in TotE here] is 3 headed but ate too much pepper.
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kodial79
Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted March 03, 2011 05:36 PM |
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You still jump the gun with names such as Light and Dark Elemental. They have not been confirmed. The unknown Glory on the Christmas Tree could as well be a hero or a boss.
As for the Water Elemental, it's different than the River Spirit. This has been confirmed by that early review a few days back that mentioned the presence of River Spirits in Sanctuary. And just like Cepheus said, that the two look alike.
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Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!
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