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kodial79
Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted March 05, 2011 08:26 AM |
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Have you people not upgraded your PC's ever since H3 got released?
I don't know what performance issues are you talking about... I got my PC since 2008 and it wasn't top notch even then. But the 3D Town Screen didn't take more than a split second to load up. And to think that the news aren't even gonna be in 3D...
There ain't gonna be any performance improvement over those 2D Town Windows, simply because there were never any performance issues because of them. Has anyone of you had any performance issues by loading up H3's or H4's full screen 2D towns?
And really, showing us the Town Screens now, wouldn't change anything, no matter how well drawn they may be. They are still in Window Mode. And all of you who preffered 2D Town Screens over 3D ones because there were nothing to click on save for the UI, gonna have another thing coming you know.
If the Town Window of that early video is any indication, then that's going to be its size. Let's see how comfortable will it be, clicking the various micrographies of buildings on it, to use their properties. Even if you're able to do that at all! Cause they did not say that you can still do that, did they?
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Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!
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Mitzah
Promising
Supreme Hero
of the Horadrim
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posted March 05, 2011 09:17 AM |
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Quote:
omfg cant believe this is true
how long did it take for people to load the H5 screens? 5 seconds MAX I'd say!
At the time of release and on a medium-performance PC? I doubt it. Stop WHINING! I guess you admired the towns the first 10-20 times you entered them, but after that, it didn't matter anymore cause you didn't care for them. You enter a town screen to build, recruit and so on, not to admire the landscapes. At least not after playing the game for one or two weeks.
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| The HoMM Channel |
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted March 05, 2011 09:23 AM |
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Edited by MrDragon at 10:30, 05 Mar 2011.
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I have now repeatedly talked about both town structures and town screens, stop panicking over speculation when we have Erwan saying this:
1:
"THERE WILL BE 2D TOWN SCREENS SIMILAR TO THOSE IN HEROES OF MIGHT AND MAGIC 3 AND 4!"
This town window thing is an unconfirmed rumour!
Cepheus might be right, but he also might be wrong, he never stated it as a fact, he said he suspects it.
My own speculation BASED ON FACTS we know so far.
2:
We don't know yet how many structures are in the towns but we know of 10 structures so far, (12 if you count the two out of four uniques you can't build) not including upgrades.
BUT WE DO NOT KNOW IF THAT IS ALL THE STRUCTURES!
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mytheroes
Famous Hero
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posted March 05, 2011 09:26 AM |
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Quote:
1:
"THERE WILL BE 2D TOWN SCREENS SIMILAR TO THOSE IN HEROES OF MIGHT AND MAGIC 3 AND 4!"
This town window thing is an unconfirmed rumour!
Except that Cepheus in the previous page said otherwise.
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acds
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 05, 2011 09:35 AM |
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I guess this teaches me not to get hyped for stuff until you have your hand on it yourself. Town windows aren't large enough to fit much (they can't make everything tiny, and the window can't be very large because if the window is very large then why not make it full screen in the first place). Also the whole point of town screens is atmosphere, with a window it just isn't the same at all.
Also they made it a window so it's "faster"? Are we in 1985? I'd understand that 3D townscreens with the H6 graphics would bog down older computers, but they are 2D now how is going to load a 2D screen take a long time unless you are on a vacuum-tube computer?
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted March 05, 2011 09:44 AM |
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Quote:
At least 3 Dwellings, but I'm going to bet 7 with upgrades as normal.
Just because they share pools doesn't mean they share internal dwellings.
My issue with this is that it would look inconsequential. In the town you would have to purchase 3 different-looking dwellings for skeletons, ghouls and ghosts (and once again for their upgraded forms) but on the adventure map there will be one entirely different building where you can recruit the 3 units. I always preferred when the dwellings from the towns appeared on the adventure map.
However, now that I think about it, I guess it WILL be the same in the towns, as in you have to purchase ONE building and then you can recruit 3 different creatures. And when you upgrade it, all 3 will receive the upgraded versions. Though I have to say, seeing those dwellings on the official site, the town screens won't look that exciting if those are used in the towns too, so there's still hope that if you buy "core dwelling", 3 different things will appear in the town window...
My guess is that this change will cause as much frustration in some gamers as the H4 system where you had to pick between two dwellings on one level...
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted March 05, 2011 09:48 AM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 09:48, 05 Mar 2011.
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I don't mind 2D town screens at all, I prefer them over the stupid-looking lifeless 3D view of Heroes V, but why a window? Hm... here's why - the building/recruitment interface is likely to be outside the town window in question and we'll see only the changes on the latter. They don't have time to make it interactive because the decision to implement town screens was taken too late. Nice, heh? 
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted March 05, 2011 10:26 AM |
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Just a Quick comparison
Town buildings in H5 Fortress
Common structures
3x town hall
3x castle
Black smith, Market place, Recourse silo, tavern + (shipyard)
5x Mage guild
Creature dwelling
14
Unique buildings
4+3x rune chapel
Total:
36(37) Including upgrades
And what can we ecpect from Heroes VI?
7+? Commnon structures (3x town hall, 3x castle, hero chamber)
14 dwelings
4 unique
Thats 24+ and I dont think that rhings like Rescousce silo, MG or Blacksmith will be present.
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted March 05, 2011 10:28 AM |
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I think it makes more sense to build the dwellings on a creature by creature basis rather then tiers.
Doing this has several gameplay benefits.
1: It lengthens town development time and increases it's demand in resources, which means you have to balance, especially in early game, creatures vs development.
Why will it be more expensive? ok simply put, say the core creature dwelling is one structure, it would need to be cheap enough to buy early without crippleing your funds, while if you break it into three chunks, the buildings can have a meaningful cost and still not be crippling.
2: It forces players to make a choice within the first few turns about what kinds of creatures they'll set out with to explore and conquer their starting area, which increases gameplay diversity compared to everybody grabbing a reasonably optimal mix of stacks immediately.
3: It makes it a lot less contrived and simple for maps and scenario's to exclude certain creatures for tactical or story purposes.
4: It creates a choice for you to try and "speed tech" to elite early or solidify your core arsenall.
5: It allows you to upgrade seperately the core creatures you want upgraded as a priority.
Say you want those upgraded Succubi but in the single dwelling model, you need to have enough dough to upgrade the dwelling for 3 units instead of the dwelling for one.
Once again that would be a needless simplification of town structure and resource management that TAKES AWAY from tactical diversity.
Of course, what makes sense and what actually happens sometimes isn't the same thing.
So this is a merely a guess.
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Meundmein
Adventuring Hero
Tricky, tricky Death...
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posted March 05, 2011 10:33 AM |
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Oh, GOD, you people just don't seem to understand...
There will be SEPARATE dwellings for EACH CREATURE, as ELVIN said. I can't say anything about town windows, they do disappoint me a teeny bit, but that's what there is to it, isn't it?
EDIT: I agree with Mr.Dragon 
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Casting Lives And Deaths
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted March 05, 2011 10:40 AM |
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Quote:
1: It lengthens town development time and increases it's demand in resources, which means you have to balance, especially in early game, creatures vs development.
Why will it be more expensive? ok simply put, say the core creature dwelling is one structure, it would need to be cheap enough to buy early without crippleing your funds, while if you break it into three chunks, the buildings can have a meaningful cost and still not be crippling.
2: It forces players to make a choice within the first few turns about what kinds of creatures they'll set out with to explore and conquer their starting area, which increases gameplay diversity compared to everybody grabbing a reasonably optimal mix of stacks immediately.
In my opinion, this is actually the other way around. The game tells you "you have to choose between a Crossbowman and a Sister, you can't have it all. But to make it easier, you only have to pay their dwellings and upgraded dwellings once. Why would we ask you to buy 3 different dwellings when it's possible you've depleted the pool beforehand?"
You'd still have to make a choice about creatures, regardless that you can already recruit from all 3. We don't know as of yet how the optimal mixing or immediate creature growth works. As for the resources thing, I think they already made it clear they wanted to simplify that and only fight for the rare resource that's mostly for the Champion, right?
And what if you capture a core dwelling on the map? Would it allow you to recruit all 3 creatures, even if you 1) don't even have any buildings in a town 2) you theoretically only bought one of the 3 core buildings in your town? If not, that's yet again another unnecessary "punishment" for the gamer. So at the moment I'm quite convinced the dwellings are merged in the town and that corresponds with "you can see how developed the opponent's town is". It would be quite a hassle to be able to tell the enemy can recruit Vampires in their town, but not Lamasus...
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SkySlam
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 05, 2011 10:47 AM |
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Quote:
And actually, I don't see why they couldn't make it an option in settings. That might be a good way to appeal to all fronts - those who want the higher-resolution town screen that might require a slightly longer load time can have that, and those who want the gameplay to go a bit faster can choose to have their town screen relegated to a window.
This should have been the solution. Still, I don't get why they are trying to make Heroes a fast-paced, multiplayer-friendly game, when it's clear that it will never be like that, and that's not the way fans want it to be (at least the majority of them).
Quote:
We discussed the Town Window about three months ago, when we first heard that it might be a possibility. We all complained about it for a week or so, and then either forgot about it or got over it. I'm a little bit shocked that people are behaving now as if this were suddenly news.
There's a big difference in town windows being a possibility and town windows being A FACT!
I am shocked and I don't get how some of you easily overlook this matter.
A change like this goes far beyond the reduction of resources or the change in creatures' tiers! True: "town screens don't change the gameplay", but they've always been part of Heroes' magic since the first chapter and there is no serious reason to get rid of them now!
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted March 05, 2011 10:52 AM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 10:55, 05 Mar 2011.
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OK, I think some confusion needs to be cleared. There WILL be separate dwellings for each creature, Elvin confirmed this. Buying one of them however won't result in a static creature pool which won't increase in size any more but it's far more likely each dwelling from the respective tier (Core, Elite) to increase the pool size by X. That's pretty stupid in my opinion as it appears that you buy some monastery dwelling for Sisters and as a result you can recruit more... Sentinels (provided that their building is already constructed of course).
There is another possible explanation though - that each creature can be recruited without penalty until you exhaust, say, 50% of the respective pool and from this point on it counts for two creatures instead of one - population-wise this will make it more effective to buy different Core/Elite creatures and not concentrate on just one. This is just a speculation though. In any case, the pool is quite likely to play a major role in the decision taking.
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted March 05, 2011 10:53 AM |
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Quote:
There's a big difference in town windows being a possibility and town windows being A FACT!
I am shocked and I don't get how some of you easily overlook this matter.
A change like this goes far beyond the reduction of resources or the change in creatures' tiers! True: "town screens don't change the gameplay", but they've always been part of Heroes' magic since the first chapter and there is no serious reason to get rid of them now!
Sorry to burst your bubble but it's been a "fact" for more than 6 months.
Marzhin posted this on August 20th:
"- Town screen: there is still a town screen, or more accurately, a town window. Each town still have its own theme music and all. It is a 2D, animated town screen. The Haven town screen was part of the missing elements, that's why it was replaced by a mere screenshot for the demo."
http://www.celestialheavens.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11281
So we actually have seen how it works, just imagine a different picture in it:
http://www.drachenwald.net/gamescom/097.JPG
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mancubus
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 05, 2011 11:08 AM |
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Edited by mancubus at 11:28, 05 Mar 2011.
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I think we need Heroes VII: altar of wishes subforum, because it's highly unlikely that town screens will return in Heroes VI 
"Community developers involved in the process"? Really? It seems that those community developers are fast-action-multiplayer fans only("Town screens? OMFG what FOR?!"). Too bad.
This game is more and more shaping up to be like a classical German porn film: "SCHNELLER, HANZ, SCHNELLER!"
Of course, in the end everyone can vote with their wallet. We'll see.
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SkySlam
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 05, 2011 11:13 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
There's a big difference in town windows being a possibility and town windows being A FACT!
I am shocked and I don't get how some of you easily overlook this matter.
A change like this goes far beyond the reduction of resources or the change in creatures' tiers! True: "town screens don't change the gameplay", but they've always been part of Heroes' magic since the first chapter and there is no serious reason to get rid of them now!
Sorry to burst your bubble but it's been a "fact" for more than 6 months.
Thanks for clearing that up, I've already seen the Necropolis town window and at the time I thouhgt THAT ONE was the placeholder!!!
By the way, I can still read in the first page of the News thread here on the forum:
*2D animated town screens WILL be in the game
I guess this line should be changed by alcibiades, especially the CAPS part: town WINDOWS are VERY DIFFERENT from town SCREENS.
Don't get me wrong: I'm not an hater and I still love Heroes VI and all the work they made... I just can't get why they went for an unpopular change like this one without a serious reason.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted March 05, 2011 11:25 AM |
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Quote:
I think we need Heroes VII: altar of wishes subforum...
Nah, they'll just rename this one like they did after the last two games came out (there are threads in this sub-forum which predate the release of H4 by a year).
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted March 05, 2011 11:27 AM |
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Quote:
Thanks for clearing that up, I've already seen the Necropolis town window and at the time I thouhgt THAT ONE was the placeholder!!!
By the way, I can still read in the first page of the News thread here on the forum:
*2D animated town screens WILL be in the game
I guess this line should be changed by alcibiades, especially the CAPS part: town WINDOWS are VERY DIFFERENT from town SCREENS.
Don't get me wrong: I'm not an hater and I still love Heroes VI and all the work they made... I just can't get why they went for an unpopular change like this one without a serious reason.
The picture is a placeholder but not the window itself. It's possible the window got bigger or something, but it's still a window as Cepheus confirmed.
I'm sure they went with this change so after you leave the town, the adventure map won't have to be re-loaded. Simple as that.
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kodial79
Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted March 05, 2011 11:33 AM |
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Edited by kodial79 at 11:44, 05 Mar 2011.
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Quote:
OK, I think some confusion needs to be cleared. There WILL be separate dwellings for each creature, Elvin confirmed this. Buying one of them however won't result in a static creature pool which won't increase in size any more but it's far more likely each dwelling from the respective tier (Core, Elite) to increase the pool size by X. That's pretty stupid in my opinion as it appears that you buy some monastery dwelling for Sisters and as a result you can recruit more... Sentinels (provided that their building is already constructed of course).
That takes away half the usefulness of the previous games' Fort/Citadel/Castle... Hmm, supposing there isn't any of that either? Heh...
Let me recap my worst fears on town screens, most of them have been confirmed.
1. 2D Town Screens (confirmed)
2. Town Window not full screen (confirmed)
3. Fewest buildings since who knows? Heroes 1?
4. Even if it's 2D, it will be just an image and not interactive. (Possibility is there since it's only a window and not full screen)
5. No Magic Guilds (confirmed)
6. No Blacksmith (Possibility is there since the only war machine is Catapult)
7. No Marketplace/Resource Silo (Possibility is there since there are only 4 resources)
8. No Tavern (Possibility is there since it has not appeared in any adventure map town model)
9. No Shipyard (Possibility is, it's an adventure map building only)
10. One creature dwelling with three upgrades (Unless Ubi confirms this, I don't know except for what I saw in the site)
11. No Fort/Citadel/Castle Building, only the walls we see on the adventure map. (Possibility is there due to the recruit system, the Control Point called Fort, no Castle model on any town on the adventure map)
12. Only 4 unique buildings of which you can build only 2 of them (confirmed)
13. Probably it's gonna look like it's a 2004 game...
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Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted March 05, 2011 11:46 AM |
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Quote:
That takes away half the usefulness of the previous games' Fort/Citadel/Castle...
It doesn't. We don't know if the Citadel/Castle will function like before but either way if you buy one more creature dwelling from the same tier, it's only natural that the pool will be increased, nothing's really changing in this regard, except that now the recruitment of one creature will depend on the recruitment of the others from the same tier. Before there was a dwelling which supplied X Peasants. When you build a dwelling for Archers, the total number of creatures in the town increased by X + Y where Y is the basic growth of the Archers. When you build a Citadel, both X and Y increment. There is no problem to apply the same principle to the new game. Quote:
This game is more and more shaping up to be like a classical German porn film: "SCHNELLER, HANZ, SCHNELLER!"
Unfortunately there are many signs for misguided "acceleration" of the gameplay which is totally unnecessary for a game like Heroes but the situation is not completely hopeless. In case they haven't forgotten, they promised XL maps and they are the direct opposite of "fast game". We'll see.
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