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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~ This Super Thread is 525 pages long: 1 70 140 210 ... 280 281 282 283 284 ... 350 420 490 525 · «PREV / NEXT»
MrDragon
MrDragon


Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
posted March 28, 2011 10:40 PM

For the record: in this argument I've only wanted to squelch the whining about a feature not existing at all, I don't have anything against whining about it's diminshed state however.

Back on topic: I've already explained to me the screen was a much appreciated down-time state of the game, where I (in single player) calmly appreciate the music, gaze at my city and relax inbetween the fighting and the exploration.
I'd say it's not the meat of the game, but it is an important part of the flavour, the seasoning if you will, that adds just that extra flavour that makes a meal worth eating. (and now I'm hungry again....)

But what does it mean to everybody else?
What are in your opinions, the greatest qualities of the town screen?

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SoilBurn
SoilBurn


Known Hero
BurnsSoil
posted March 28, 2011 10:44 PM


To reinforce the pattern theory introduced by Zenofex above, I would like to also point out a certain macro-pattern that seems to be creeping into modern game design.

I encourage everyone to read the following article:
http://gamerant.com/skyrim-dragon-age-2-mass-effect-3-rpgs-dying-dyce-68478/
Headline:
With the biggest RPG franchises getting more and more ‘streamlined’ and user-friendly, we have to wonder – does the genre have any hope of surviving?

And although the thesis of the above article might be an exaggerated one, I must admit that I cannot help but think about town windows every time I read the words "RPG", "streamlined" and "user-friendly" next to each other.
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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted March 28, 2011 10:45 PM
Edited by War-overlord at 22:46, 28 Mar 2011.

Quote:
A badly translated interview... on Ubi's own site? The odds are pretty low.



The badly translated part was referring to the interview that was posted on the news topic the other day.
And I still say you are reading to much into that statement.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!

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Willis
Willis


Known Hero
posted March 28, 2011 10:57 PM
Edited by Willis at 22:58, 28 Mar 2011.

Maybe someone should make a thread for voicing opinions about the town screen. It seems like a recurring topic that stirs up a lot of passion. I would start it, but I'm fairly ambivalent about it.

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Dexter
Dexter


Known Hero
posted March 28, 2011 11:01 PM
Edited by Dexter at 23:02, 28 Mar 2011.

I for one do appreciate all the fuss around the town screens. I consider them a vital part of the game. A sort of refuge from the action on the adventure map, where you can listen to the brilliant music and look through the lovely building visuals.

And as much as I do believe that we should wait until we actually see the town windows before we judge them, the overall discussion is a good thing, and especially reassuring. Back under the previous producer, the game was supposed to have NO town screens at all, so I'm hoping that even if they end up poorly done in Heroes VI, someone will think twice prior to setting the milestones for future installments.

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DarkLord
DarkLord


Supreme Hero
Fear me..
posted March 28, 2011 11:05 PM

ok now listen up!

Ubi changing resourse system - major change
the "official" reason - to give more strategy and make 4th resourse very impotrant..
fair enough.. not sure how it will work, but will have to wait..


Ubi changing town screens - !!! now they are in "pop up" windows
the "official" reason - cuz it's annoying to wait for 1 second... yes yes 1 second???
are you freggin kidding me??? 1 second is the reason?
sounds like a spit into face!!! , excuse my..

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MrDragon
MrDragon


Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
posted March 28, 2011 11:35 PM

Quote:

Ubi changing town screens - !!! now they are in "pop up" windows
the "official" reason - cuz it's annoying to wait for 1 second... yes yes 1 second???
are you freggin kidding me??? 1 second is the reason?
sounds like a spit into face!!! , excuse my..

That can't be the reason it wouldn't make sense, the whole 1 second thing is I think not related to the town screen -> town window thing at all.
Instead now, when you build a structure, it will just "pop" be there instead of phase in over the course of a few seconds with a sound byte.

The town window most likely has another reason, which might also be a stupid reason, but it's not THAT specific stupid reason.

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DarkLord
DarkLord


Supreme Hero
Fear me..
posted March 28, 2011 11:43 PM

Quote:
Quote:

Ubi changing town screens - !!! now they are in "pop up" windows
the "official" reason - cuz it's annoying to wait for 1 second... yes yes 1 second???
are you freggin kidding me??? 1 second is the reason?
sounds like a spit into face!!! , excuse my..

That can't be the reason it wouldn't make sense, the whole 1 second thing is I think not related to the town screen -> town window thing at all.
Instead now, when you build a structure, it will just "pop" be there instead of phase in over the course of a few seconds with a sound byte.

The town window most likely has another reason, which might also be a stupid reason, but it's not THAT specific stupid reason.


whatever reason it might be, it's very disappointing...
i mean for me HoMM atmosphere is one of the most important things in that game, if not the most important.. sad.. really

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yasmiel
yasmiel


Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
posted March 29, 2011 02:09 AM

Quote:

But what does it mean to everybody else?
What are in your opinions, the greatest qualities of the town screen?


I think the best quality of town screen was adding to the overall atmosphere and "feel" of the game. It added additional layer of identity for its heroes(factions).
It is pretty abstract effect on the game overall, and that is why there is rarely middle ground, people either love it or don't care about it.

From pure gameplay perspective, it wasn't needed. But in order to get many people to care about gameplay some level of immersion is needed before that.
In my opinion making it optional (so you can turn it off in multiplayer or being able to do stuff without entering Town Screen) would be ideal. But not having it at all in any form would negatively impact (at least my) immersion in overall game world.

Many games rely on artworks to add to the world immersion. Heroes had fortune to (aside loading screens) have a type of "artwork" included in game mechanic itself (as Town Screens).
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Kenishi
Kenishi


Famous Hero
passed out drunk in Tavern's
posted March 29, 2011 07:36 AM
Edited by Kenishi at 07:51, 29 Mar 2011.

Quote:
The second element we changed is the increased focus on strategy instead of management, especially micromanagement. Now you feel more like a general in battle and less like a city planer



Thanks  SoilBurn, for bringing this up, so they thought that the previous installments ware turning you into a city builder … some times I think they are children trying to grasp for the first time this game, seriously when the looked at al the problems the franchise has they thought it was to much of a city builder …

But I must agree that from a point of view, as you stated, they’re trying to over simplify which can be in seen in new games, and as you mentioned in games like Dragon Age (I to some degree) II and Mass Effect 2 (even compared to the first) in an attempt to bring new crowds in (which translates in money) have don so, but for me this translates in irresponsibility and give reasons for VG haters to attack, I mean why should I as a human being not adapt to a new thing and use my brain to learn it, I mean if I just get simplified problems it will be just a mild stretching of brain power. It might be a exaggeration from my part but like myself a lot of other people loved to take a time to think a strategy to work there brain and find solutions to a given issue, and also as MrDragon said tangential learning played a huge factor in rising the interest in a subject or a myth, that ware present in games, so to be robed of it is sad and even more so for the future gamers that will find this games as overbearing for there mental ability.

  Second reasons for a lot of changes, in my opinion, are the whole multiplayers craze that seams to have stricken the game producers, ever since WOW became a monthly multimillion maker, from Free MMO to emphasizing in new games the multiplayer aspect and the whole micro transactions from buying in game mounts to weapons and finishing with new maps or additions in small DLC (which cost almost half the full games price) in almost every type of game type from RPG to FPS.

  Like every think evolution can’t be stopped but seeing so many think cut just to be in trend whit the whole world (which I call the “sheep effect”) is not the best thing, especially whit a game like this that has a history behind it and whit each new installment has evolved without losing the core of it, well maybe except H4 but that game you either loved it or hated it (I do love it whit all of it flaws, but not at first it grow on me).

So for me the most frustrating think is ok no Town screens plus some other stuff that ware not clearly stated, (can’t get used to Town windows maybe in time) but was it so hard to say: Look people we are trying to make the game more MP friendly so we made some changes, some of you might not like but we have to adapt to the current times, so please have some patience and be open minded about it, you might love it, and if we mess up will fix it if we can’t we promise to be more carful in the future and avoid making it.

So to conclude they haven’t don the best PR job and a lot of things leaked and ware messed up by them (the latest being the naga creature description), and most of the info we got had to be put in perspective by the insiders, which if there weren’t it would have gone even worse, and no I don’t think there defending Ubi, again just tray to put in perspective some of the thinks Ubi dose because the get more info (although they can’t  always reveal all, so they just give us a push in a direction) a mean there aren’t paid by them and they are gamers like us and fans of the HoMM universe who want as best as a game that this new installment can be.

Quote:
I encourage everyone to read the following article:
http://gamerant.com/skyrim-dragon-age-2-mass-effect-3-rpgs-dying-dyce-68478/
Headline:
With the biggest RPG franchises getting more and more ‘streamlined’ and user-friendly, we have to wonder – does the genre have any hope of surviving?


Interesting will give a read …


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No Gods, no Masters. Knowledge is Power, and Power is Freedom

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted March 29, 2011 07:55 AM
Edited by MattII at 07:56, 29 Mar 2011.

Quote:
I encourage everyone to read the following article:
http://gamerant.com/skyrim-dragon-age-2-mass-effect-3-rpgs-dying-dyce-68478/
Headline:
With the biggest RPG franchises getting more and more ‘streamlined’ and user-friendly, we have to wonder – does the genre have any hope of surviving?

And although the thesis of the above article might be an exaggerated one, I must admit that I cannot help but think about town windows every time I read the words "RPG", "streamlined" and "user-friendly" next to each other.
It's not just RPGs suffering, RTSs aren't doing brilliantly either.

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admira
admira


Promising
Famous Hero
posted March 29, 2011 08:11 AM
Edited by admira at 08:13, 29 Mar 2011.

I thought about making a pool thread about Town Screen. But after some thought, it seems the developer won't even bother checking it, so the pool will be pretty much pointless in many ways. So here is my thought.

Town Screen has been an integral part of Heroes series, it is a feature that makes Heroes game a Heroes game. TBS game has never been a sport game! There is no point in reducing 1s by destroying the aesthetic value we will get in that exactly 1s. Heroes is not sports game, it is a game and at the same time a beautiful piece of art. That is the reason we still have Paul's music, that is the reason why the town screen is needed to fill the atmospheric feel of a faction, that is why the adventure map is made beautiful, that is why the creature design is important aesthetically, that is the reason some of us even consider buying the game in the first place (to buy the art value on the game, I know I am one of them).

If I want a fast pace game, I will played Starcraft or Warcraft or even Street Fighter. They told us in the first place about TBS being "play at your own pace" so why bother with fast-pacing the game?

I can continue arguing about Heroes being semi 4X Game, so actually Town Build for upgrades and units are important part but talking about this will render 1 full thread dedicated to this discussion. So I will stop here.

So you can also signed me in as whiner, if that will change their mind although I highly doubt it.

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted March 29, 2011 08:28 AM

The article above was a pretty interesting read.

Quote:
Second reasons for a lot of changes, in my opinion, are the whole multiplayers craze that seams to have stricken the game producers, ever since WOW became a monthly multimillion maker, from Free MMO to emphasizing in new games the multiplayer aspect and the whole micro transactions from buying in game mounts to weapons and finishing with new maps or additions in small DLC (which cost almost half the full games price) in almost every type of game type from RPG to FPS.

I think this pretty much emphasizes what's also the point of that article, namely that they are streamlining the games towards certain target audiences. Heroes 5 and now 6 development seems to be targeted almost exclusively at the multiplayer niche, which means that all of us who play singleplayer and want an actually functional AI, who like to play large maps, and last but not least don't really mind the whole town builder and economic management side of the game, pretty much become forgotten.

Sure, they might get a part of the multiplayer million-dollar cake for a short while, but I think chances are much smaller for them making a game that will leave a lasting impression this way, and that game will pretty soon be forgotten in the mass of other games streamlined into the same template.
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What will happen now?

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MarceS
MarceS


Hired Hero
posted March 29, 2011 09:29 AM

Hy guys, and girls!

I've been folowing the official M&M Facebook, but since last Thursday (?) there are no news Is there a reason of the lack of new information?
____________
Hope dies the last time, but we have
the might to crush that as well.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted March 29, 2011 09:37 AM

Quote:

I think this pretty much emphasizes what's also the point of that article, namely that they are streamlining the games towards certain target audiences. Heroes 5 and now 6 development seems to be targeted almost exclusively at the multiplayer niche

H5? Multiplayer oriented?

Yeeah. Could have fooled me what with the poor support, balancing, patching pace, cheat protection and even worse servers.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted March 29, 2011 09:53 AM

Quote:
Quote:

I think this pretty much emphasizes what's also the point of that article, namely that they are streamlining the games towards certain target audiences. Heroes 5 and now 6 development seems to be targeted almost exclusively at the multiplayer niche

H5? Multiplayer oriented?

Yeeah. Could have fooled me what with the poor support, balancing, patching pace, cheat protection and even worse servers.

Point is not so much that they failed at balancing (that hit ALL parts of the game), but that they completely neglected AI, game went completely defunct on large maps due to bugs, no Town Portal ment huge maps were a drag, plus duel mode sort of showed the direction they aimed at.

But ok, we can rewrite it and say: They aimed at short one-on-one encounters, rather than large epic maps. Be that single or multiplayer.
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What will happen now?

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Hungarest
Hungarest


Known Hero
What? Why? I'm undefeatable
posted March 29, 2011 10:39 AM

@Elvin What's going on on Facebook?

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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted March 29, 2011 10:42 AM

They're busy cleaning the mess they did on the official website

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted March 29, 2011 11:24 AM

No clue, it is quite curious.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb

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infinitus
infinitus


Supreme Hero
posted March 29, 2011 11:46 AM

Quote:

Yeeah. Could have fooled me what with the poor support, balancing, patching pace, cheat protection and even worse servers.

True. But at least multy i play even now. Singleplayer i abandoned after 2-3 faction parts of campaign. Boring story, put me to sleep, poor AI etc ...
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Nothing's impossible

http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY

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