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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~ [ This thread is 525 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 (281) 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 ]
EvilP
EvilP


Known Hero
Hermoral/Finasia
posted March 28, 2011 12:48 PM
Edited by EvilP at 12:52, 28 Mar 2011.

For heroes online town art, here are more :


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This is ... unfair

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alcibiades
alcibiades

Hero of Order
and Light
posted March 28, 2011 12:53 PM
Edited by alcibiades at 12:58, 28 Mar 2011.

Jesus that looks absolutely STUNNING!
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mytheroes
mytheroes


Famous Hero
posted March 28, 2011 01:10 PM

Quote:
Jesus that looks absolutely STUNNING!


Too bad the game itself is a disgrace to the homm series.

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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted March 28, 2011 01:31 PM

Good heavens, that Phoenix.... O_O

I LOVE IT <33333333
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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted March 28, 2011 01:35 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Jesus that looks absolutely STUNNING!


Too bad the game itself is a disgrace to the homm series.


And on the contrary, now we're going to have the best game of the series with the worst possible town screens. Arguably, so.
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The_Polyglot
The_Polyglot


Promising
Supreme Hero
Oh, really?
posted March 28, 2011 01:46 PM


Quote:

And on the contrary, now we're going to have the best game of the series with the worst possible town screens. Arguably, so.


Yup, well put, kodial. My thoughts exactly.
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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted March 28, 2011 01:50 PM
Edited by Zenofex at 13:52, 28 Mar 2011.

Quote:
Just dispelling illusions, one at a time. You seem to have missed the point.
Well, nobody has any illusions that Ubisoft has some marketing plan about Heroes VI. The complaint is about something pretty different - that this plan, whatever it is, totally sucks.
Quote:
But we have a responsibility to tell you if we know there's a reason why some decision was taken, and to keep you informed if and when we can, marketing or no marketing. To do any less would mean we're not doing enough and should be replaced. And if a particular criticism is fair, inaccurate or outright wrong, we're in a position to say so.

I don't know why you're saying you want less input from us?
In this case these are Ubisoft's reasons and they have to state them themselves. It's not like these complaints started recently, they had the opportunity to say something on more than one occassion. Instead... what do we have instead? The silence of the lambs, that's what.
Quote:
And on the contrary, now we're going to have the best game of the series with the worst possible town screens. Arguably, so.
I think he means Heroes Online. Never played it to comment though.

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SoilBurn
SoilBurn


Adventuring Hero
BurnsSoil
posted March 28, 2011 02:55 PM
Edited by SoilBurn at 14:59, 28 Mar 2011.

Hiya all,
been following the forums for several years now as a lurker, but the ongoing town screen discussion is just too interesting to pass up. Looking forward to the good discussions with everyone


So, enough with introductions, on to the topic at hand:

There is another angle to the town window / town screen discussion, which (to my knowledge) has not been raised so far. I would like to remind everyone of this gem of a video... (March episode of the German Ubisoft-TV, released 1 month ago)
http://ubitv.de.ubi.com/index.php?vid=4012&listsort=3&theme_id=0&pid=0&games_id=7&side=1
...where Erwan - translated from German - makes the following interesting comment:

Q:What are the main changes to Heroes 6?
A: Compared to Heroes 5 and its predecessors (like heroes 3 or 4) we have mainly changed 2 elements of the game: one of them is the RPG element. We wanted to make sure that the player has full control over his/her character, its creation and its development (...goes on to describe the tears/blood system...). The second element we changed is the increased focus on strategy instead of management, especially micromanagement. Now you feel more like a general in battle and less like a city planer


To me the above quote arguably reveals the crucial decision factor behind the town window change. Ubihole seems to be oblivious of the simple fact that the management part of Heroes is exactly as important as Tactics (it is essentially part of it).
They are obviously assuming that having an elaborate town building system reduces the gameplay experience of a Heroes game in a certain way.
Judging now by the little that we know about "town windows", it is apparent to me that they decided to dumb down the town screens (e.g. smaller size, no interactivity), not for aesthetic reasons, but in order to increase the pace and/or enhance the rpg element of the game.
In other words, I am afraid that Heroes 6 might suffer from the Dragon Age II / Mass Effect 3 syndrome (oversimplification of a successful formula to allow for faster gameplay and accessibility to the masses).

And my big question is: If the above is indeed correct, why are they so frantically insisting that they are listening actively to Heroes gamers' feedback??

I hope I am not reading too much into the above, wanted to share my thoughts with you anyway.

On a positive note, from a graphical perspective the 6th installment is hands down the best in the series so far.




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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted March 28, 2011 03:22 PM

@Soilburn: I think that there has been too much complaining about the town windows....really I agree with Erwan that we don't want to feel like city planners.....I think most people are mistaken thinking that the 2D town windows will take away the strategy of building but this is not the case....all they are doing is making the town windows quicker and easier to access. The town tree system of H5 is taken away as the H6 hero's skills now have this tree system!

The full video to your german one posted is on the hungarian site released in Feb 2011....

You know I just finished campaign of Crysis 2 and great game, great graphics, but I finished it in 3 days flat. Not really interested in the multiplayer of it, but I know that H6 campaign will take a few weeks.....and the multiplayer.....infinite gaming!

Heroes VI....aaaaah! Can't wait!

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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted March 28, 2011 03:29 PM

Quote:
I think that there has been too much complaining about the town windows....


I tend to agree. Either you people are reading to much into a possibly badly translated interview and several statements. Or you people are just a bunch of complainers.
Don't rip of something you haven't seen, tried or used before. Use it, then and only then you have the right to complain, whine and rant.
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MrDragon
MrDragon


Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
posted March 28, 2011 03:36 PM

Well, I really like the town screens for the down-time they offer, kinda there to give me a sense of comfort.
I never actually thought of them as complex, I'd say towns could be much more dynamic instead of having them simplified.
In Heroes V I pretty much had a preset sequence for building every town with only slight deviations from game to game depending on available resources or close enemy players or a certain prominent creep stack guarding a potent artifact.

To me, personally, the town screen was almost relaxing, and I'm not saying that's a bad thing, I could even spend time just staring at the thing (not in multiplayer obviously) and addoring all the little details, this was especially true for the gorgeus art of Heroes III town screens or the beautiful architecture of Heroes V.

I dunno, somehow to me townscreens are an important part of the experiance but I can't say that so far, they've given me much pause for thought when it comes to complexity.
I guess to me, it's a feel thing, and I'll be ok with HoMMVI if they can keep the feel, the whole town window thing has me worried I'll admit, but I don't feel outright rage. (not saying you shouldn't, I just don't.)

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Vinetu80
Vinetu80


Adventuring Hero
posted March 28, 2011 03:38 PM

Quote:
...all they are doing is making the town windows quicker and easier to access. The town tree system of H5 is taken away as the H6 hero's skills now have this tree system!


We DON'T WANT the quicker (sic) and easier to access towns. We want that Heroes feel when you enter the town. See the photos above? As Alc put it, they are STUNNING. I expected nothing less from H6. Transpose the awsome adventure map graphics into town screens, not give us a gold chest choice...

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OmegaDestroyer
OmegaDestroyer

Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
posted March 28, 2011 03:42 PM

Quote:

Don't rip of something you haven't seen, tried or used before. Use it, then and only then you have the right to complain, whine and rant.


You don't interact a lot with society, do you?  

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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted March 28, 2011 03:44 PM

Quote:
I think that there has been too much complaining about the town windows....really I agree with Erwan that we don't want to feel like city planners.....


There will be enough complaining only when they will decide to drop town windows and return to full screens. And I wanna feel like a city planner too, when I play the game.
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Willis
Willis


Known Hero
posted March 28, 2011 03:49 PM
Edited by Willis at 15:50, 28 Mar 2011.

I don't mind people disagreeing with the changes, but the tone can get quite exhausting and freeze out opposing views. Frankly, I think the rage on these boards is impotent, as far as influencing Ubisoft is concerned. Not to mention how often it has been discussed already...

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SkrentyzMienty
SkrentyzMienty


Famous Hero
posted March 28, 2011 03:50 PM

Not to mention the sheer beauty and atmosphere of full town screens that was represented well both in 2D and 3D, if it's gone it will simply disappoint me a lot (and many others) while also taking away a big aspect of a faction's identity IMO.

And I don't care if they're 2D or 3D, as long as they're there. 2D in HOMM 1-4 showed great screens like H2 Sorceress, Necromancer, H3 Conflux, Rampart, Dungeon, Fortress, Stronghold, Snowy Tower, and even Inferno etc. while H5 deserves a praise for it's Sylvan and Academy.

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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted March 28, 2011 03:51 PM

Quote:
Quote:

Don't rip of something you haven't seen, tried or used before. Use it, then and only then you have the right to complain, whine and rant.


You don't interact a lot with society, do you?  


On the contrary, my good man. However the people I hang out/interact with aren't hypocritical, nerdrage-filled, whiney Prancibalds. Except maybe here.
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SoilBurn
SoilBurn


Adventuring Hero
BurnsSoil
posted March 28, 2011 04:07 PM
Edited by SoilBurn at 16:09, 28 Mar 2011.

Quote:
Either you people are reading to much into a possibly badly translated interview and several statements. Or you people are just a bunch of complainers.
Don't rip of something you haven't seen, tried or used before. Use it, then and only then you have the right to complain, whine and rant.

2 comments:

1. A badly translated interview... on Ubi's own site? The odds are pretty low.

2. If not now, when the time left to release (give or take 3 months) is probably enough to still implement some functional changes in the game, when should one raise his concerns then?


The quote above about Ubi wanting the Heroes gamer to be less of a "city planer" is imo as authentic as it gets. The question is, how much are we allowed to read into it?

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted March 28, 2011 04:11 PM
Edited by Zenofex at 16:15, 28 Mar 2011.

Quote:
I tend to agree. Either you people are reading to much into a possibly badly translated interview and several statements. Or you people are just a bunch of complainers.
Don't rip of something you haven't seen, tried or used before. Use it, then and only then you have the right to complain, whine and rant.
OK, let me explain something to you and the other "wait before" parrots. There is this thing which people call pattern. It has various uses and isn't misuse-proof but most of the time it serves its purpose. This purpose is to help the said people predict something before it occurs. Familiarize yourself with the pattern and you may even become friends.
Here are some clues how to recognize a particular pattern, for example - that we may have rubish town windows in the end product.
- Ubisoft state that they want to reduce the management in general and of the town in particular;
- Ubisoft state that the town development will be seen on the adventure map;
- All officially confirmed information points towards speeding up the game and directing it towards the battles;
- Ubisoft answer absolutely nothing to the numerous complaints against the town windows and the "whining" of the would-be buyers;
- Whenever some of the development-related people finally decides to give some explanation to some of the controversial issues, it's usually idiotic and shows lack of understanding of what made Heroes what it is.
- Cepheus says that he'll try to arrange the town windows to be "stretchable";
- The devs consider 1 second loading time "annoying" and apparently this is enough to justify the scrapping of the full town screens.
Acceptable conclusion: There is a reasonably high probability to have rubish town windows and until proven otherwise, it is equaly reasonable to "whine". Period. Now stop whining about the whining.

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alcibiades
alcibiades

Hero of Order
and Light
posted March 28, 2011 04:22 PM

I agree with Zenofex. If we feel the developers are taking the game a place we don't want it to go, we have the right to complain whine. Sign me up with the whiners!
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