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Brukernavn
Hero of Order
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posted June 15, 2011 12:41 AM |
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Quote:
Too many special abilities? YOU WORRY ABOUT TOO MUCH SPECIAL ABILITIES?
WHat have you been smoking sir?
I don't see why a unit needs 3-4 special abilities. The battles in heroes have always been chess-inspired. And the principles in chess are simple, with each "unit" behaving in a certain way, but the game is still very hard to master, making it THE strategy game.
Too many special abilities would ruin this concept. Just look at what this did to the RTS genre, making it about clicks-per-minute and micromanaging every single unit, taking away the tactical elements of the game. I just don't want to see the same happen to the TBS genre.
Edit: And btw I don't smoke 
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Jackson
Known Hero
Random Spirit Lover
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posted June 15, 2011 01:05 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Too many special abilities? YOU WORRY ABOUT TOO MUCH SPECIAL ABILITIES?
WHat have you been smoking sir?
I don't see why a unit needs 3-4 special abilities. The battles in heroes have always been chess-inspired. And the principles in chess are simple, with each "unit" behaving in a certain way, but the game is still very hard to master, making it THE strategy game.
Too many special abilities would ruin this concept. Just look at what this did to the RTS genre, making it about clicks-per-minute and micromanaging every single unit, taking away the tactical elements of the game. I just don't want to see the same happen to the TBS genre.
Edit: And btw I don't smoke
Chess is different. The pieces are all unique and have severe limitations, pawns only being able to move one square forward, bishops being able to move diagonally without limit, etc. There is a lot more careful planning involved. Heroes doesn't even come close. If anything, in my opinion, the new tier system, combined with adding more special abilities, makes all the units more unique and makes them all more useful, adding to the strategy and planning and bringing it a bit closer to chess.
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I still think that there aren't two Spring Spirits walking around, but rather only the one and it's in the sanctuary line-up. In other words there is no neutral water elemental and the wolf was never added but rather a neutral from the start. Same with the light elemental - the light elemental is the Glory and just the Glory.
If I'm right, then the neutral line-up would be something like this:
1. Earth Elemental
2. Air Elemental
3. Fire Elemental
4. Darkness Elemental
5. Wolf
6. Mermaid
7. Phoenix
8. ???
I think when we saw those neutral water elementals in that video, they were just neutral Spring Spirits that hadn't been given an official name yet.
It's wishful thinking, I know. But come on, guys, even though there's a very real possibility that I'm completely wrong, isn't there also a very real possibility that I'm right?
Just Two small problems
Elvin had had directly said that the wolves have been added later on. An indirectly that there are Two types of wolves
And also the 6 basic elementals were more or less confirned.
I do not say that you are wrong but I do belive this.
Also I think there are 10 neutrals we know about sofar (Original 8 plus 2 wolves
Not that I don't believe you, but can someone please link me to these confirmations? I remember Elvin saying something about the truth being rather simple and obvious, but I don't remember him ever confirming anything - I remember him always being very ambiguous, or fairly ambiguous at best. But I do only read about 80 percent of what's in the Altar so it's completely possible I overlooked something important. Anyway, anyone who can show me these confirmations, I would be very grateful to you. 
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted June 15, 2011 01:19 AM |
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That's my other other problem; the critters have become a bunch of glorified chess pieces  .
Although it kinda fits with the whole 'holy war' theme they've got going on (Re: Dragons).
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted June 15, 2011 02:28 AM |
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Quote:
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Irina has a sexy voice
Every women has a sexy voice for men if she sounds like a women. It's just nature that wants this 
I really loath this kind of statements.
No woman voice is sexy for me as I'm gay. I guess nature skipped us in your eyes.
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Abiogenist
Hired Hero
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posted June 15, 2011 03:30 AM |
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I really loath this kind of statements.
No woman voice is sexy for me as I'm gay. I guess nature skipped us in your eyes.
Er, I'm gay and I still find some women's voices sexy. It's just that, no matter how sexy they are, they don't stimulate me.
But yeah, I think you're jumping the gun. Then again, LordRiton is also overgeneralizing.
EDIT: Anyway, I really wanted to see the Snow Maiden in the video! I'm curious of their animations in the battlefield. And is it just me or is the Orcs seem kind of lame compared to the Nagas? Maybe it's because the video was one-sided...
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admira
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted June 15, 2011 08:20 AM |
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Edited by admira at 08:28, 15 Jun 2011.
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Not that I don't believe you, but can someone please link me to these confirmations? I remember Elvin saying something about the truth being rather simple and obvious, but I don't remember him ever confirming anything - I remember him always being very ambiguous, or fairly ambiguous at best. But I do only read about 80 percent of what's in the Altar so it's completely possible I overlooked something important. Anyway, anyone who can show me these confirmations, I would be very grateful to you.
There is no official confirmation regarding the neutrals especially the wolves or mermaids (At the time we saw the creature blurry on the screenshot) or Glory and Spring Spirit similarities to Water Elemental and Light Elemental. Most of them are merely speculation. However, they have some merit on them, the gameplay video showing adventure map and a battle with some creature very similar or should I say a copy paste of Spring Spirit under different name that is Water Elemental. And then there are Christmas Tree speculation....
Yes, the Water Elemental in the video probably a placeholder, but judging on how close they were to release date at that moment many predict that Water Elemental is actually a copy paste of Spring Spirit (maybe) under different name, skin and abilities.
Connecting the previous speculation and the Christmas Tree, it is popular guess that Light Elemental follow the same fate. Yes, it is a Glory under (maybe) different skin, name and abilities.
It also worry fans (or at least, I do worry), that in the expansion we will get Treant which is an re-skinned Earth Elemental, or Shadow Spirit which is a re-skinned Dark Elemental or Sylph that is a re-skinned Air Elemental.
So far:
- Mermaids: Confirmed
- Wolves: Not Confirmed
- Spring Spirit as Sanctuary Line-up: Confirmed
- Water Elemental model copy-paste of Spring Spirit: Not Confirmed
- Light Elemental model copy-paste of Glory: Not Confirmed
But yes, again, all are mere speculation.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted June 15, 2011 08:33 AM |
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Why they would stick with the treant when the dendroid is so much cooler is beyond me 
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admira
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted June 15, 2011 08:42 AM |
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Quote:
Why they would stick with the treant when the dendroid is so much cooler is beyond me
again... speculation. Anyway, I do agree, Dendroid is much cooler 
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Davy
Known Hero
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posted June 15, 2011 08:59 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Too many special abilities? YOU WORRY ABOUT TOO MUCH SPECIAL ABILITIES?
WHat have you been smoking sir?
I don't see why a unit needs 3-4 special abilities. The battles in heroes have always been chess-inspired. And the principles in chess are simple, with each "unit" behaving in a certain way, but the game is still very hard to master, making it THE strategy game.
Too many special abilities would ruin this concept. Just look at what this did to the RTS genre, making it about clicks-per-minute and micromanaging every single unit, taking away the tactical elements of the game. I just don't want to see the same happen to the TBS genre.
Edit: And btw I don't smoke
well this way every creature of every faction is unique,which further makes it more attractive to mix the creatures of the factions.
In earlier games it was very often just pointless to use creatures from other factions,because you yourself had most often similar creatures in your own faction(of course there were some unique creatures,but their abilities were most of the time not that different)
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted June 15, 2011 09:17 AM |
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Cool New Video Battle of Sanctuary vs Stronghold!
Some pointers:
1. Kirin’s Trail of Mist – Not only slows enemy down, but friendly naga troops get extra movement when passing through (as if morale was high)
2. Blizzard spell (water magic): Creates hailclouds in a 4x4 area which damages and “chills” (movement debuff) targets. Lasts for 4 turns but damage decreases with each turn.
3. Lightning bolt spell is Air magic.
4. Regeneration spell is either Water or Air Magic
5. Dreamweaver can entangle their enemies in roots reducing their speed and poison them (not previously mentioned under its abilities)
6. Enraged Cyclops is a shooter (evil eye) and it’s upgrade ability “Impervious to pain” makes able to fight until end of the turn even if killed in that turn, and only dies at the start of the next turn.
7. Honour faction ability of Naga increases defense of ALL Naga creatures.
Awesome!
What is the Ankh symbol increasing when the naga attacks?
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Negativland
Promising
Adventuring Hero
but I'm not
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posted June 15, 2011 09:29 AM |
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great video!  I like Irina's accent, it's soothing
About the kirin's trail: Irina said it gives the allied unit who crosses it an extra turn, but the "bonus" icon was for speed only? Also, the Mizu-Kami had high morale before crossing the trail.
Wondering what's with the bonuses the sanctuary units get at the beginning of the battle.
And finally, I understand how challenge works. I like the idea.
on an unrelated note: are there any artworks of the sanctuary mount out there? Or some good quality screenshot? I need reference for teh fanart 
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Brukernavn
Hero of Order
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posted June 15, 2011 09:49 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
don't see why a unit needs 3-4 special abilities. The battles in heroes have always been chess-inspired. And the principles in chess are simple, with each "unit" behaving in a certain way, but the game is still very hard to master, making it THE strategy game.
Too many special abilities would ruin this concept. Just look at what this did to the RTS genre, making it about clicks-per-minute and micromanaging every single unit, taking away the tactical elements of the game. I just don't want to see the same happen to the TBS genre.
Edit: And btw I don't smoke
Chess is different. The pieces are all unique and have severe limitations, pawns only being able to move one square forward, bishops being able to move diagonally without limit, etc. There is a lot more careful planning involved. Heroes doesn't even come close. If anything, in my opinion, the new tier system, combined with adding more special abilities, makes all the units more unique and makes them all more useful, adding to the strategy and planning and bringing it a bit closer to chess.
Of course it's different, I said it was chess-INSPIRED. The turn based nature of it, creatures of different types and so on. I'm not against special abilities, but one or two would suffice. A good game always has simple principles, so you can focus on a strategy based on those principles. A bad game is one where you have to refer to the gaming rules all the time, and the one who knows the rules best has the advantage. A creature can be useful even without five specials, most of them don't add anything to gameplay either, they just complicate balancing.
Again, I'm not against specials, I'm just afraid they're overding it this time. I'm not claiming that they have, just voicing my concern.
Quote:
well this way every creature of every faction is unique,which further makes it more attractive to mix the creatures of the factions.
In earlier games it was very often just pointless to use creatures from other factions,because you yourself had most often similar creatures in your own faction(of course there were some unique creatures,but their abilities were most of the time not that different)
I don't think that will be the case, since the creatures' specials are meant to work together within each faction. I believe it's less encuraged to mix creatures from different factions this time around, and the town conversion and racial abilities seems to imply this as well.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted June 15, 2011 09:58 AM |
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I despise homogeneous factions 
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 15, 2011 10:16 AM |
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They don't have all that many abilities if you count things like living, x vulnerability etc. At best they have one active ability and a few passive ones.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted June 15, 2011 10:24 AM |
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Re jackson: -><
Quote:
Not that I don't believe you, but can someone please link me to these confirmations? I remember Elvin saying something about the truth being rather simple and obvious, but I don't remember him ever confirming anything - I remember him always being very ambiguous, or fairly ambiguous at best. But I do only read about 80 percent of what's in the Altar so it's completely possible I overlooked something important. Anyway, anyone who can show me these confirmations, I would be very grateful to you.
and admira
You two just cost me 30 minutes of browsing through this forum to find that Wolf/elemental part. So here are the Thing that are not official but are from the insiders, so for me from the most rellyable sources.
About elementals
From Cepheuswritten on the 2nd June (page 405)
Quote:
There are as many creatures whose name is suffixed "Elemental" in the game as the number of Elemental Dragons in Ashan.
About Wolves
Zenofax Writes:
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Then it's confirmed - 6 elementals, 1 phoenix, 1 mermaid and 1 wolf. Case closed. Now let's go back to discussing how nice the music is and how pathetic the town windows are.
Elvin Replies
Quote:
1 wolf?
The discussion about this topic goes from 404-407 read it if you want to.
____________
I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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whiterider
Known Hero
death walks with me
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posted June 15, 2011 10:25 AM |
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"Too dumb to die" = a strange ability, is it only created to point how dumb cyclops are? Or is it created only so that the cyclops could block the battle field one more turn? Even if the brain doesnt understand, the body is dead and stops to function. This ability could be added to an undead creature or to a troll who turns to stone for one turn after dead and than vanishes into dust. And the Kirin doesnt look so impressive on the battlefield, its just a snake...
Overall I had a strange feeling when seeing the last battle between orcs and reptilians, I HOPE it is not polished because some of the creatures attacked or retaliated out of synchron. Some faster than the eye expects, some slower, it is like a strange unnatural dance.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted June 15, 2011 11:10 AM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 11:11, 15 Jun 2011.
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straight-thinking humanoids
But what about the gays?
Anyways, not really digging the face of the air elemental. I know this is old news, but something about it reminds me of something...
EDIT: Oh yeah:
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted June 15, 2011 11:15 AM |
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Quote:
*Shivers* I can see the all-dwarven towns (another thing many straight-thinking humanoids wouldn't miss) coming up next expansion... 
On the contrary milady. A straight-thinking man would never refuse a group of other man whit large amounght of body hair drinking, cursing and acting brutly. It is the male elven image that threthens our manhood.
The dwarves in their bohemic (hate this word) and brutal nature are a manifest of Manhood. No straight-thinking man could ever refuse this. They may not have the grace or elegenc of other images in fantasy but they are the incarnation of pure primordial manhood.
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted June 15, 2011 11:25 AM |
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Yeah, humanoids are weird. Good thing I'm a fully-fledged human then
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted June 15, 2011 11:30 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
On the contrary milady. A straight-thinking man would never refuse a group of other man whit large amounght of body hair drinking, cursing and acting brutly. It is the male elven image that threthens our manhood.
The dwarves in their bohemic (hate this word) and brutal nature are a manifest of Manhood. No straight-thinking man could ever refuse this. They may not have the grace or elegenc of other images in fantasy but they are the incarnation of pure primordial manhood.
Male humanoids have so strange and stupid taste in things... soccer, cars, dwarves, non-magical slashing... a town full of hairy tiny males while they normally would cringe when they see another males penis....
Really strange creatures those males.
You have a strange image of man milady. I for example do not fulfill half of those "characteristics". you should at least get to know these people before you start overgeneralizing them. I think you would be surprised when you knew me a little better. But on the other hand, maybe not. I just wonder What did the man of the world do to you that was so terrible to crate your aversion towards them.
____________
I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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