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sylvio
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 13, 2012 09:50 AM |
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They fixed sounds of speed up units 
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted July 13, 2012 10:12 AM |
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Really? I did not notice:-D. I have to try it later
____________
I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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Pitlord
Known Hero
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posted July 13, 2012 10:17 AM |
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good job limbic, now implement please replay function and simturns and i will be happy 
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lawmaker
Hired Hero
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posted July 13, 2012 11:02 AM |
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the thing with the background is for the ones who purchased the dlc i guess cause i cant use the pirates background even though its there as an option(just shaded)
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tabachanker
Hired Hero
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posted July 13, 2012 04:51 PM |
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Patch 1.5 impressions
Quote:
They fixed sounds of speed up units
Yes! I finally hear the correct creature cheers and sounds! This patch is really the one that will make me play Heroes VI again. Now for me, the only thing preventing this from being a great game is the DRM. And I probably can live with it if there's close to no disconnects. I've been lucky so far with this since I've only got one (probably because I haven't played the game since forever though !)
The town screen are fabulous. I don't know if I should congratulate them for doing this or saying "boooo-urns" for not including them at release. I mean, how could they think the game would be perceived as finished without the town screens? Plus, there's only 5 factions for god sake, how did they not implement this in time before?
Anyway, I'm really happy with them. On my test run, I played Stronghold against Haven, so I've seen a lot of those. Can't wait to admire the 3 others. I don't really mind the mistakes in Haven town (like that one weird building placement). I think the animations make up for it (like the birds flying at the top-right).
The fort town screens surprised me a lot. I'm so glad they made them different from the normal towns. This is a huge bonus and it's a very welcome addition. I like the fact that the creature growths are now on screen as well as the income generated by the town (don't remember if that last one was there before). Maybe in a future patch, they could list all the things that affect those totals (when right clicking on them for example).
I didn't play enough to comment about the game balancing. I noticed though that the Sisters and Vestals are now dropping like flies! Also, I fought against an Inferno force once that consisted of lilims, cerberus, tormentors and breeders. The 4 stacks had about equal strength. The last enemy stack standing? The cerberus...
On my test run I played with a might hero so I can't really comment on the strength of direct damage spells. I used a lot of firebolts, mainly to bolster my "blood" gauge, but the damage output wasn't that bad, especially for a might hero.
Speaking of blood: might-blood heroes have absolutely no good skills to choose from! No matter which "damage-enhancing" skill you choose, it can never be better than reinforcements (a tears skill). That last one increase your damage output as well as preventing losses. OK, you can only use it once in combat, but you can use it on your most used stack and go nuts on the enemy a couple of turns (while eating up retaliations for your other troops).
Oh, and I still hate the selection circle with those teeny-tiny check and X buttons. They're too small! I hate gaining skill points just because I'll have to try to click on those! I swear, I miss the check or X about a quarter of the time. There seems to be no shortcut for them either, you know, like "Enter" to accept or "Esc" to cancel, like any other applications.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 13, 2012 05:07 PM |
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So I've just finished a map with Inferno on the new map, Crater Isle. The town screens are amazing though I wish that they would have been more animated (like smoke clouds moving, lava flowing etc). The new balance and town screens makes this a very very fun game and I am very sure that when we eventually have a sixth faction, an improved skill system and hopefully alternate upgrades - then it will be the best game in the series.
Healing is still an absolute necessity though. I played as Inferno without using any healing or reinforcements spells and you do get a lot more casualties than when you play as Sanctuary and only use Waves of Renewal.
Overall though, Inferno has risen from my least favorite faction to probably my favorite coupled with Sanctuary. Inferno Pyromancers are amazing, I love the Inferno ability and the Teleport spell has AMAZING synergy with Inferno. You can teleport Tormentors into the middle of the enemy stacks and it's like a nuclear bomb or teleport Dreadnaughts to almost completly pacify your opponent.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 13, 2012 07:12 PM |
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Quote:
when we eventually have a sixth faction, an improved skill system and hopefully alternate upgrades - then it will be the best game in the series.
Apart from this being unrealistic - alternative upgrades? Please... what are they supposed to gain?
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esvath
Known Hero
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posted July 13, 2012 08:49 PM |
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Now that town screens are in, balance are being, well, balanced, these are my wishlist for patch 1.6 :
1) I can choose any heroes when starting a game.
2) Blood/Tear path for secondary heroes.
3) Offline weapons, whether they are Dynasty weapons or regular weapons.
4) random map generator.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 13, 2012 09:05 PM |
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Are you kidding?
Now I know you speak from a rather elitist perspective which the vast majoity of all players do not share, but for a lot of people the alternate upgrades were an incredble feature which added over half a hundred new creatures, gave all the factions completly new strategies aswell and maybe most importantly, a LOT more diversity and choice.
I would easily count alternate upgrades as being among the best features in the history of HoMM. Personally, I would hope for somebody who is privileged enough to be a VIP to have higher ambitions for the future of the game.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted July 13, 2012 09:33 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 21:33, 13 Jul 2012.
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The alternative upgrades are fine on paper but in TotE they were so imbalanced that most of the time one of the two possible choices was available just for colour with little to no practical use. Real alternative upgrades will require a great deal of dedication and resources which are nowhere near the horizon as far as Ubisoft seem to be concerned. Do you seriously think that a small stidio that did not even develop the original game can execute such a task, especially when there are so many other features still missing (most of which are certainly prioritized high above the alternative upgrades, if the latter are even considered)?
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 13, 2012 09:50 PM |
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Wow, wow, I just asked what they would gain. Not more. And I can read that post up and down - no answer. What WOULD they gain?
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 13, 2012 09:50 PM |
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Alternate upgrades were a great feature in the old system, but given the new tier system where we already have 3 units of about equal strength on each tier, it would be both much more cost-effective and make much more sense to simply add a new unit on each tier. This will add the same element of choice as in the previous games and will be easier to implement both in terms of number of units needed and balancing.
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What will happen now?
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted July 13, 2012 10:11 PM |
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Quote:
Alternate upgrades were a great feature in the old system, but given the new tier system where we already have 3 units of about equal strength on each tier, it would be both much more cost-effective and make much more sense to simply add a new unit on each tier. This will add the same element of choice as in the previous games and will be easier to implement both in terms of number of units needed and balancing.
Hear, Hear.
____________
Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted July 13, 2012 10:28 PM |
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Alternative upgrades is really one of those things that sound well on paper, but are extremely hard if not impossible to pull of in practice.
I can live without them and don't consider it a major thing for the franchise.
I would be much more interested in sim-turns, or rather if the current engine can easily accommodate one - since we will be having the same engine in Heroes 7 as well.
Overall though, Limbic gets a good grade for this patch, hopefully they keep on with the good marks
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 14, 2012 08:16 PM |
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I too am in favour of adding a new unit per tier but that said some alternative upgrades would be nice..
For instance an H5 warmonger alternative to the mauler(tanky, painful retaliations), an offensive vampire with better life drain compared to the slow, out of time, tank vampire etc. However I feel that the current lineups are missing some traditional units.
Like the swordsman/crusader in haven, the thunderbird and behemoth for stronghold..
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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lawmaker
Hired Hero
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posted July 14, 2012 09:16 PM |
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Edited by lawmaker at 21:32, 14 Jul 2012.
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Lol now that i am thinking of it, strange to see no sword wielding unit in the haven faction. Not including the angels.
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GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
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posted July 14, 2012 11:38 PM |
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Edited by GunFred at 23:42, 14 Jul 2012.
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Quote:
Healing is still an absolute necessity though. I played as Inferno without using any healing or reinforcements spells and you do get a lot more casualties than when you play as Sanctuary and only use Waves of Renewal.
If I got my lore right, demons never really die. They just get forced back to Sheogh or something. Therefore I think that Inferno should have a resurrection building instead of Haven. The sister should be soulless rotting corpses before their bodies are taken back to a city for ressurection and you can not really resurrect light elementals.
Also, alternative upgrades were awesome in H5. Much better than H4 where you had to exclude units.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 14, 2012 11:52 PM |
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Quote:
Also, alternative upgrades were awesome in H5. Much better than H4 where you had to exclude units.
H4 system didn't work in H4 because on each tier you had to choose only 1 out of only 2 possible creatures, and with some of these choices not even a real choice (Cyclops vs. Ogre Mage, lol much?). I think if the choice was 3 out of 4 possible, it wouldn't feel as empty as the H4 system, and it would be easier to give the units different focal points so that they each would come in useful depending on your Hero class, skill choice and opponents.
H5 system has some issues that makes it not very compatible with H6. The cases where H5 actually worked as likely alternates was when you had two units with different application, for instance an offensive melee vs. tank, a ranged vs. melee or a damaging caster vs. a supportive caster. However, with 3 units on the same tier in new system that would mean you effectively had to develop 6 units that all had different applications and at the same time retain different flavors between the factions - i.e. Inferno very offensive/might, Sanctuary very defensive, etc. which I simply don't see as possible.
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What will happen now?
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odium
Known Hero
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posted July 15, 2012 01:28 AM |
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Edited by odium at 01:29, 15 Jul 2012.
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Short discussion about direct damage spells balance:
I've made the assumption that 3x3 spells hit 2 targets, 4x4 hit 3 targets and 5x5 hit 3.5 targets.
The format is the following: name, max base damage (area damage), mana cost, tier level, additional info.
icebolt , 560 dmg, mana 15, (I), + frozen
firebolt , 1034 dmg, mana 15, (I)
agony , 425 (1275 over 3 turns) dmg, mana 15, (I)
mass agony , 284 (5964 over 3 turns for 7 creatures) dmg, mana 45, (II)
ligthening bolt, 1233 dmg, 30 mana, (II)
fireball , 972 (1944) dmg, mana 40, (II), 3x3
blizzard , 633 (1899 per turn, 3798 over 2 turns) dmg, mana 50, (II), 4x4, + chilled
implosion , 1537 dmg, 55 mana, (III), cannot be healed
chain lightening , 989 (3065 on a total of 4 targets) dmg, mana 65, (III)
circle of winter , 768 (1536) dmg, mana 50 (III), 3x3-1
firestorm, 819 (2866) dmg, mana 65, (III), 5x5
acid cloud, 578 (1156) dmg, mana 75, (III), 3x3, lasts until end of combat
Because of lack of time I couldn't make an indepth analysis but in my opinion the current state is far from balanced from the point of view of direct damage spells. Only from a superficial look one can at least see the following:
-how severely underpowered is Implosion (tier III and much more expensive) compared to Fire bolt(tier 1 and extremely cheap) and Lightnening bolt (tier II and cheap).
-how underpowered Lightening bolt is compared to Fire bolt: 100% more expensice but only 20% more powerfull.
-can be just in theory but mass agony seems kind of powerfull for a tier II spell; I would reduce it's cost a bit and reduce the number of turns to 2
-acid cloud (tier III) is kind of weak compared to blizzard (tier II); both of them will have the effect that units below them will move after first turn in most of the cases; I would raise the damage to at least 1200
As I said this requires more thorough analysis but the current feel I have is that most of the spells still require more damage(sometimes considerably more damage) with the exception of Agony, Mass Agony and Fire Bolt
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 15, 2012 03:14 AM |
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Okay, first. Why I think alternate upgrades are better than adding one new creature per town.
- Town screens. You would have to squeeze in an additional building. Afaik, the town screens weren't built with the thought of ever squeezing additional buildings into them.
- Less choice and variation. You get a lot more variation with 7 alternate upgrades than with 1 new creature. Just compare the adventure map in TotE compared to HoF and vanilla H5. In TotE, you rarely meet the same neutral twice - in H6, you do it all the time.
- What's the point in having a new creature when the alternate upgrades practically can have completly different functions than their original upgrades. For instance, with your idea Haven gets an additional Core shooter. But Sisters could get the same function if their alternate upgrade was a shooter (who could apply the Pacify effect). Like Elvin mentioned, there is a lot you can do like a defensive Crusher etc.
- Adding a new creature doesn't make balancing easier than adding alternate upgrades. Just look at H4 - should I take Minotaurs or Medusa? Already in H6, some Cores and Elites are clearly better than other Cores and Elites. What would you choose if you had to choose between Pearl Maidens and Sharkmen? Or between Sun Riders and Glories?
- It probably isn't going to consume a lot more development time. With a new creature, you have to add a new model, new animations, new sounds, all new textures etc. While most alternate upgrades in H5 were done in less than a year and were all recolours with some minor stuff added.
That being said, I wouldn't be against it if it was implented. Haven could get Crusaders, Inferno Efreeti, Necropolis H5 Wraiths, Sanctuary maybe an aquatic version of those Chinese Guardian Lions and Stronghold could get an alternate champion, the Pao-Kai!
Now on the spells.
I agree that Implosion needs a boost but you have to consider that it negates healing too which is really powerful in H6.
Yeah, Agony is much more powerful than I thought it would. I used it a lot in my last game and it inflicts damage EVERY SINGLE TIME the affected enemy creature does something. It doesn't matter if it moves or retaliates or casts an ability - it always does damage no matter what.
Also I think the area spells you listed can hit a lot more units if used with their full potential.
Also H6 needs A LOT more spells. There's a huge lack of spells and I recently played TotE and I just can't believe how many cool spells they left out. What happened to fun, original spells like Fire Traps, Blade Barrier, Arcane Crystal, Deep Freeze and Divine Vengeance etc?
There were also A LOT of great spells in H3 and especially H4 with spells such as Martyr and Sacrifice.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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This thread is pages long: 
