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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 13, 2012 08:35 PM |
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You can bet on it 
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Locksley
Promising
Famous Hero
Wielding a six-string
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posted November 13, 2012 08:38 PM |
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Simpelicity
Promising
Famous Hero
Video maker
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posted November 14, 2012 02:14 AM |
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I love how I'm getting counted out like this... you know I've beaten you before Elvin. And Ozz still has time to show up.
Also, you guys were playing with ultimates? That's interesting.
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"You r the shakespeare of heroes vi, in every single battle i say: "he is gonna to loss"." - Cumulo88
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Locksley
Promising
Famous Hero
Wielding a six-string
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posted November 14, 2012 11:55 AM |
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Hey Simpelicity!
We only agreed to play in the future, that game could or couldn't be the final. It can still be you and me. Also, I like your videos.
The ultimates... I didn't exactly expect sacrifice that but since we had had a lot of technincal problems and disconnects, it was better to play the game and pay back later.  There are a lot of rules in this tournament that are easy to forget and the ultimates are made to be fun after all.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 15, 2012 06:17 PM |
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Well then, time to get that show on the road It is going to be the birth of an epic video I hope! I'll be available, drop an hcm for when your schedule allows.
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Simpelicity
Promising
Famous Hero
Video maker
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posted November 15, 2012 09:18 PM |
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I am home now!
I'm thinking of recording something for the weekend right now, since no one is likely to be around right this second. I'm hoping to be done with it by 4-4:15 PM (GMT -5 of course). I'll see whatever challeneger awaits me then (be they elvish or ozzish or polysh........)
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"You r the shakespeare of heroes vi, in every single battle i say: "he is gonna to loss"." - Cumulo88
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 15, 2012 09:19 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 08:22, 16 Nov 2012.
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Elvin stands ready
And that was that. Two problematic games later, no satisfactory conclusion could be reached. In the first game I had the Blue Screen of Death on the second combat round so we had to load and start the battle anew. The plan was to replay using same positions and moves but since morale/luck were not the same there was little point to go for it so we played as if the first game had never taken place. And man it was a good game! Apart from the fact that I sold it 2-3 times and we are talking game-losing mistakes. A game that could have been comfortably won dragged on and on until the last two turns where everything would be decided.. to be cut short. I was just thrown back to main menu, no questions asked. Hmph  No thrilling conclusion, no clear victories but the memory of a great game remains. After seeing the battle I believe that you will agree that simpelicity has earned the right to proceed onto the next round. Good job mate
What I had in mind was to have one elimination and have the other two face off in the finals but since we remain three there is a more entertaining way that should not leave anyone feeling disappointed. I have one game with locksley and one with simpelicity and see who has the advantage: If I win both games then they will have to duke it out and the victor faces me. If I lose both I am out. If I only win one then simpelicity and locksley will face each other and we count the total points.
For instance suppose that I lose to simpel and defeat locksley, then simpel defeats locksley:
Simpelicity vs Elvin 1-0
Elvin vs Locksley 1-0
Simpelicity vs Locksley 1-0
At the end of the day simpel has 2/2 points so his place is secure while locksley and I have 1/2 points. However I have the advantage over him because I previously defeated him, thus he is eliminated by default. Does that work for you? I am open to suggestions, will roll the matchups tomorrow.
Edit: Incorrect calculations, I should know better than posting with my brain fried 
____________
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Simpelicity
Promising
Famous Hero
Video maker
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posted November 16, 2012 02:41 AM |
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Quote:
Elvin stands ready
And that was that. Two problematic games later, no satisfactory conclusion could be reached. In the first game I had the Blue Screen of Death on the second combat round so we had to load and start the battle anew. The plan was to replay using same positions and moves but since morale/luck were not the same there was little point to go for it so we played as if the first game had never taken place. And man it was a good game! Apart from the fact that I sold it 2-3 times and we are talking game-losing mistakes. A game that could have been comfortably won dragged on and on until the last two turns where everything would be decided.. to be cut short. I was just thrown back to main menu, no questions asked. Hmph No thrilling conclusion, no clear victories but the memory of a great game remains. After seeing the battle I believe that you will agree that simpelicity has earned the right to proceed onto the next round. Good job mate
What I had in mind was to have one elimination and have the other two face off in the finals but since we remain three there is a more entertaining way that should not leave anyone feeling disappointed. I have one game with locksley and one with simpelicity and see who has the advantage: If I win both games then they will have to duke it out and the victor faces me. If I lose both I am out. If I only win one then simpelicity and locksley will face each other and we count the total points.
For instance suppose that I lose to simpel and defeat locksley, then simpel defeats locksley:
Simpelicity vs Elvin 1-0
Elvin vs Locksley 1-0
Simpelicity vs Locksley 1-0
At the end of the day simpel has 2/2 points so his place is secure while locksley and I have 1/2 points. However I have the advantage over him because I previously defeated him, thus he is eliminated by default. Does that work for you? I am open to suggestions, will roll the matchups tomorrow.
Oh yeah, I forgot to battle report. Well the videos are going to be out eventually, I'll probably aim for monday again, you can check that for more details. To explain a little more on what was happening when it crashed, I had several yuki-onnas in the bottom right corner doin' scrap, and more importantly I had around 26 mizu kamis nearby only 1 turn into a 600hp regen. I was blood magic and so was he btw. He had around 100 soaked goblins (chain lightning incoming) that had the storm arrow buff (broken arrow though, other side of the screen, I think mizus might even have been in cover from there). He also had 50 or so dreamreavers and useless scraps of leftover units (the most threatening was 9 jaguars, the rest was few of the other cores). His mana was starting to dwindle, my mizus were tough and regenerating rapidly, with a reinforcements ready should I need one. My bet at this point is that I could burn down his things before my mizus ran out. I don't think I could've quite made it, but it woulda been really close. And despite his downplaying of himself, I did one major mistake myself : forgot to take mass dispel. Agony + his dream bad mojo was killing me. I had lots of my units standing around doing nothing because it would've hurt more (my kensei for instance stayed put. Agony plus dream debuff is suicide to them). With 30 kensei available much sooner this would've been more in my favor.
To answer your logistics part, this isn't about eliminating someone so much as determining 1st 2nd and 3rd place, really. You're centering everything on yourself though which is weird. I suggest to win someone has to beat the other 2 in a row. Randomly pick a couple to start (say me and you). If you win, you go fight Lock. If you beat Lock you win period. If Lock wins, he then has to beat me. If he wins he wins period, if not I get a chance at you again, and if I win I win. This is equal, the drawback though is that it is technically liable to turn into an endless loop (although I don't think it will, not for very long anyways). You might want to invent an exit latch if this starts running in circles after the first round or more(if I beat Lock after you beat me and he beat you).
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"You r the shakespeare of heroes vi, in every single battle i say: "he is gonna to loss"." - Cumulo88
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 16, 2012 10:25 AM |
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Edited by Elvin at 10:28, 16 Nov 2012.
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Quote:
To explain a little more on what was happening when it crashed, I had several yuki-onnas in the bottom right corner doin' scrap, and more importantly I had around 26 mizu kamis nearby only 1 turn into a 600hp regen. I was blood magic and so was he btw. He had around 100 soaked goblins (chain lightning incoming) that had the storm arrow buff (broken arrow though, other side of the screen, I think mizus might even have been in cover from there). He also had 50 or so dreamreavers and useless scraps of leftover units (the most threatening was 9 jaguars, the rest was few of the other cores). His mana was starting to dwindle, my mizus were tough and regenerating rapidly, with a reinforcements ready should I need one. My bet at this point is that I could burn down his things before my mizus ran out. I don't think I could've quite made it, but it woulda been really close. And despite his downplaying of himself, I did one major mistake myself : forgot to take mass dispel. Agony + his dream bad mojo was killing me.
Regeneration, like agony, does not calculate magic defense so the actual regeneration would be about half And storm arrow gives units full range which is why I cast it in the first place. It is no surprise that my gobbos's lucky attack killed 5 kirins, I was counting on it. My lightning could kill 9 mizu kami and I was planning to make you retaliate for agony to kick in. I had 60 or 70 mana which basically means 2 lightnings or one lightning and two agony spells. Had I had more mana I would have summoned dark elementals to steal your regeneration but at that point it wouldn't help much.
Quote:
You're centering everything on yourself though which is weird. I suggest to win someone has to beat the other 2 in a row. Randomly pick a couple to start (say me and you). If you win, you go fight Lock. If you beat Lock you win period. If Lock wins, he then has to beat me. If he wins he wins period, if not I get a chance at you again, and if I win I win. This is equal, the drawback though is that it is technically liable to turn into an endless loop (although I don't think it will, not for very long anyways). You might want to invent an exit latch if this starts running in circles after the first round or more(if I beat Lock after you beat me and he beat you).
Not so weird. I can arrange games easier than the both of you and this system also gives the chance to decide the top 2 players in a minimum of two games. The downside is that it IS possible for each player to end up with 1 wins and 2 losses which wouldn't get us anywhere. I do not in any way like a system that can end up in a loop but if locksley agrees on a more random solution than mine or has a better suggestion then I'm all ears.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Locksley
Promising
Famous Hero
Wielding a six-string
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posted November 16, 2012 10:47 AM |
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Edited by Locksley at 10:52, 16 Nov 2012.
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Congratulations, absolutely most likely to Simpelicity!!!
Design of the Final
Do I get this right?
Each of us should fight two duels, one with each opponent.
If A win both his duels A wins the tournament. Then B and C must have lost one duel each.
In the duel between B and C, the winner gets silver and the loser gets bronze.
But it is possible that everybody win one and lose one duel. Then it is unsettled or drawn, and as Simpelicity says there is a need of an exit latch.
My suggestion is that the exit latch could be the number of stacks still alive when we win (not summoned/gated). Maybe this is a bad way of doing it but I think that we need to quantify to know if the victories are great or small.
Example:
A - duel 1 is lost - wins duel 2 with 5 stacks left - Gold
B - duel 1 is lost - wins duel 2 with 4 stacks left - Silver
C - duel 1 is lost - wins duel 2 with 3 stacks left - Bronze
If two players win with the same number of stacks left, they play an extra duel.
If all three wins with the same number of stacks left, which is rather unlikely, we think about that later. Roll a dice, perhaps, or have three winners.
Is this a good idea?
When I can play my duels:
Monday: Day and evening, dinner 17-19
Tuesday: Day and evening, dinner 17-19
Wednesday: Day and late evening, NOT between 16-21
Thursday: Daytime, MUST leave at 16.00
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 16, 2012 11:00 AM |
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Edited by Elvin at 11:24, 16 Nov 2012.
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Not a bad idea. Or I could calculate the remaining army's casualties percentage(amount of units lost / total units) if you want to be more precise So basically everyone plays everyone and we then compare the size victorious armies.
Could not access random.org but randomizer.org worked just as well. Here are the pairs I rolled with player on the left being the attacker.
Simpelicity(Inferno) vs Elvin(Necro)
Locksley(Inferno) vs Elvin(Haven)
Locksley(Sanctuary) vs Simpelicity(Haven)
So here is the next question: Do you want those matches with casualty calculation to conclude the tournament or should they determine the two players who have the traditional final battle? Normally I would favour the latter but in this case it would take 3 games to determine the top 2 spots and that could take a while..
____________
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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Locksley
Promising
Famous Hero
Wielding a six-string
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posted November 16, 2012 11:43 AM |
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amount of units lost / total units
I like that formula. It's easy to measure, push print screen on the end of battle summary.
But I don't remember if the gated units are included in that list, and it is easy to forget to push the prtscn-button but that could solved in this evil way: forget it and you win with 1 creature per stack left. Take a photo of the screen with a camera to be extra safe.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 16, 2012 11:48 AM |
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Edited by Elvin at 11:49, 16 Nov 2012.
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I plan on recording our duels anyway(will have to check what is wrong on my end..) and simpelicity always records so we should be alright. I just hope there won't be any disconnections because that would be hard to measure even if the victor is clear. And I doubt that gates appear in the casualties list.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Locksley
Promising
Famous Hero
Wielding a six-string
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posted November 16, 2012 12:45 PM |
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Answer to "the next question"
I think that 2 duels are enough because of the time it takes with 3. It's better to start a new tournament so that more people can play.
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Simpelicity
Promising
Famous Hero
Video maker
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posted November 16, 2012 02:20 PM |
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On the tie breaker, I'd go further. Some troops are worth more than others, simply calculating how many are left isn't enough. Calculate the worth (in gold) of everything left. It's not only more accurate (this way 1 kirin isn't liable to be worth as much as a shark) but it's also less likely to create ties I think.
As for the matchups.... are you kidding? You get to fight inferno twice, with the best healing factions too. Not that it's impossible but that's just making it hard on us.
Next tournament it would be nice if it was a third party randomizing the things. Not that I don't trust you. But others might not. They see you getting such great rolls all the time, they might start wondering things.
Oh and for the battle, I may not know exactly how much regen healed, but if I recall correclty (I may not), it was worth around 8 mizus. That's as much as your lightning, pretty much. Still confident it would've been closer, but I think your dreamreavers would've won the outlasting match. Also summoning dark eles is gonna kill your mana pool, can't get all those juicy agonies and lightnings in. Also and lastly, I wasn't gonna do anything with my mizus, ie 14 more magic defense. Was that calculated in your damage calculation? It also affects your hero attack AND your dream attacks (not to mention agony, which was already doing only less than 200 when the magic def wasn't active). I would've had to cast my 3600 dmg water tomb on the dreams to really have a chance but the full goblin stack with storm arrows seemed like a more immediate threat. If I casted on the dreams, I migth've won but I would've had to survive the initial onslaught (so that regen kept doing its thing). I might've though because cover was possibly going to come into play. If I had thought of cover I would've gone for dreams immediately, I don't think your goblins would've been enough. Close though, of course.
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"You r the shakespeare of heroes vi, in every single battle i say: "he is gonna to loss"." - Cumulo88
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 16, 2012 03:10 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 15:18, 16 Nov 2012.
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Quote:
On the tie breaker, I'd go further. Some troops are worth more than others, simply calculating how many are left isn't enough. Calculate the worth (in gold) of everything left. It's not only more accurate (this way 1 kirin isn't liable to be worth as much as a shark) but it's also less likely to create ties I think.
There's also power ratings.
Quote:
Next tournament it would be nice if it was a third party randomizing the things. Not that I don't trust you. But others might not. They see you getting such great rolls all the time, they might start wondering things.
Elvin Luck, feared as much as hated by all who have been on its wrong end ^^ But want an honest opinion? If I was tampering with the results I would have picked inferno for myself. If you want to swap it's on. It's quite an even match for destructive showdown and I do love a good pyromancer.
You also had waves of renewal that added to the rez but its duration was about to expire as I recall. Defense is +10% to might/magic defence. And yes, you most definitely had to target the goblins! Obstacle penalties aren't particularly good unless duck and cover is present. Goblins were the safest target because they could deal the highest amount of damage within a short time(counting no range penalty and a good percentage of air dmg) but were also the easiest to perish in that short a time. Dreamwalkers would prove tough cookies but they were not an immediate priority.
Btw the reason my dreamwalkers attacked the kensei instead of the priestesses were the invisible ice shards. To me it made better tactical sense to establish a new shooting base and kill all goblin-would-be blockers than to return and attack the kirins. I expected the shards to be placed all the way to your priestesses but I guess you did not fear my goblins too much at the time
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Locksley
Promising
Famous Hero
Wielding a six-string
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posted November 16, 2012 04:18 PM |
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Good that you noticed what we didn't, Simpelicity.
I think that we should count the money, because the costs were adjusted in a recent patch to be a bit more balanced and reflect the building and expansion process in a game (don't know if the intentions were fulfilled though). And the power rating is often wrong at least in the older games, in h5 it was more about the stats and nothing about the abilities if I remember correctly.
As for the matchups... I will face Haven twice, and play the same faction as in my last duel. Such is randomness. I don't like the results very much this time but in the run it will give some good variation, I hope.
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Simpelicity
Promising
Famous Hero
Video maker
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posted November 16, 2012 07:23 PM |
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Quote:
Btw the reason my dreamwalkers attacked the kensei instead of the priestesses were the invisible ice shards. To me it made better tactical sense to establish a new shooting base and kill all goblin-would-be blockers than to return and attack the kirins. I expected the shards to be placed all the way to your priestesses but I guess you did not fear my goblins too much at the time
DAMN. My trick only half worked. I was trying really hard to trick you into thinking the patch was exactly where you thought it was, which worked, but I was hoping that thinking that, you'd use them to finish off my hurting kirins instead (50 dreams with a magic hero can pack a punch, probably half or more of what was left would've died). I had put the patch between the kirins and the dreams. Made more sense to me, if I thought a patch was somewhere, to attack an equally important target instead of willingly walking into it anyways.
EDIT monday I'm SURE I'll have time for duels. Otherwise it'll be more day to day. For monday it'll preferably be afternoon GMT -5, I can maybe work outside of that, but that's as uncertain as the other days. And btw, Lock, you forgot to mention the GMT in your disponibilities.
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"You r the shakespeare of heroes vi, in every single battle i say: "he is gonna to loss"." - Cumulo88
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Locksley
Promising
Famous Hero
Wielding a six-string
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posted November 17, 2012 12:13 AM |
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Edited by Locksley at 00:22, 17 Nov 2012.
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I'm in GMT+1 which means that your Monday afternoon is my evening, so I think we can play from my 7 and your 1. Unless I need to be involved in a minor renovation project for an hour, but that's no big problem. You'll find me here on Monday.
The tie breaker, some more thoughts
Counting gold is good enough as long as the factions have somewhat similar weekly costs and if there's no really huge differences when comparing tier level (esp. the champions). It won't be 100% fair but acceptable then, it's just a game. I don't know if unit costs were changed in patches but growth was and thus the weekly cost was changed indirectly, which means that costs to some extent should reflect the strength of a week's population. (Let's not involve the dwelling costs in this).
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 17, 2012 02:01 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 14:05, 17 Nov 2012.
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This is turning into nuclear science.. Calculating gold/power rating costs for every faction and THEN for surviving armies for every matchup is going to be a pain and I really don't need that right now. And I have no reason to believe that gold is a true representation of army strength, each faction's armies do NOT cost the same and I cannot be bothered to make percentages for each one. Having been a part of the balancing process I can in all honesty say that there are plenty of loose ends and even gold costs could change if the patching continued.
Let's keep it simple, remaining out of total units. Same for every player, easy to calculate. If you REALLY have to we could even multiply each tier's remaining out of total units with the average power rating of said tier so as to give more importance to the stronger tiers but we don't need anything more complicated.
Which would look like this:
(Remaining / total cores) x average core rating + (Remaining / total elites) x average elite rating + (Remaining / total champions) x average champion rating
That's as far as I'm willing to go, my free time is scarce enough as it is.
In other news the map received a minor update
- Some minor teleporter issues fixed.
- Gold script eliminated as it was no longer needed.
- Combat terrain rearranged in 1x1 tiles to spice up things.
- Artifact areas are rearranged from relics, to major, to minor so as to make artifact picking faster and easier.
Will post the link a little later.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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