|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
posted January 04, 2015 05:00 PM |
|
|
Okay, Sal...
Orzie said:
Other than that, I cannot stand a gay couple kissing on the street whatsoever, and there are a real snowing lot of people who think the same, and you cannot deny that or call that absurdic since it's real. You can consider banning all public kissing (at least on the streets and in the public places) as a compromise.
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted January 04, 2015 05:06 PM |
|
|
oki artu
Xerox: orzie said gays kissing should be banned
Me: show
Artu: he said several times
Me: show
artu: he said gay all public kissing should be banned
No comment.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted January 04, 2015 05:25 PM |
|
|
Yes, he says all kissing can be banned as a compromise, so that is a completely accurate quote to back me up when I say:
Quote:
Orzie suggested it many times, he even said he was okay with public kissing to be banned completely if necessary.
It doesnt make Xerox's objection wrong, he says Orzie suggests legal action, he does, you ask where, I show you. Him taking one step further and banning kissing completely, doesn't make us wrong one bit. Just look at his context, ffs.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted January 04, 2015 05:34 PM |
|
|
You people are terrific. You don't even dare to read what one writes, you have like a tool to track certain words, pick them then "haha I show you, look what you say", then put it out of context.
Now go back a few pages and read Orzie first feelings about public intimacy (all forms, all sexes): he says is impolite to him. This is how he feels it, you don't have to acknowledge or refute, your arguments are dust at this point. And you interpreting between his lines is your problem, your interpretation, if you still not sure, ask him to explain better, don't go on conclusions and claim them as valid.
He has a different education, different cultural roots, he has the right to find impolite whatever he feels as. Is he weird because? Maybe for you, maybe not for others thinking as him. In my country too, I was taught to never talk loud in public, for example.
I mean, what you do there is clearly dishonest. Is not about defending orzie, but if this is how you will present your arguments, I better stay away as I have nothing else to add.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted January 04, 2015 05:42 PM |
|
|
There is absolutely no cherry picking in what I did, people said he supports legal action against public kissing of gays, he did and that's that. His reasons for supporting legal action is irrelevant at the point where you suggest nobody did such a thing. An Arab defending legal action against women drivers also has his cultural reasons, acknowledging the cultural reasons doesn't make them automatically right or sensible.
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted January 04, 2015 06:06 PM |
|
|
Aha. So if I say let's make a law against nudity because it hurts me, is racist because it includes black people.
I can play too at this game.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted January 04, 2015 06:19 PM |
|
Edited by artu at 18:21, 04 Jan 2015.
|
No, but if you said black people shouldn't show their skin and as a compromise, you'd be willing to put white people in burkas also, that would be quite racist, not to mention extremely absurd also. We are talking about public kissing here, not having orgies on the street. Russia is not Sudan, I think they are perfectly capable of having some social progress in this matter. You seem to be forgetting I live in a country at least as conservative as Russia, I'm not some clueless libertarian telling them to change everything in two days, disregarding all social context.
You are pushing the limits of logic, accusing me of gang mentality when all I did was to show you a quote which you claimed it didn't exist. I am perfectly capable of throwing around similar ad hominem arguments and you know I can get just as aggressive and in a much more accurate way, if I'm willing. The only reason I don't do that is my respect to you as a friend. So, I seriously suggest, taking a 10 minute break and read what you've actually been writing twice, cause as of now, you appear to me as someone who's acting very very irrational.
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted January 04, 2015 06:40 PM |
|
|
Being rational on a matter of cultural acceptance is not the point and never interested me. You have the habit to skin every word in 40 equal parts then rationalize the air between, not me.
I just say how I feel and explained why. You never tell how you feel things, but how you think them, which from my perspective shows nothing about your nature. We don't talk the same language, so is dead end.
And to conclude my journey in this thread, I think I was rather clear: I don't care about who is gay or not, the day where I will value humans on their sexual orientation will not likely come.
I don't support gay rights, I just don't care. I support human rights, when someone is worth.
Do they feel life is unfair? So it is, for other persons as well, fight and win.
Do I find homosexuality normal as percentage of nature dysfunctions? Yes.
Do I find the gay sexual act as normal in per se? No, the concerned organs are not made for that purpose.
Do your (other side) arguments influence me at the point they can change what I feel? Until now, none, you browse air and twisted comparisons to hide the void.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted January 04, 2015 06:54 PM |
|
|
False, I never atomize the context. On the contrary, it's something I consider immoral and I even get angry when someone tries to pull off something like that. I don't have strong feelings on this matter, simply because I am not gay, and I can never feel what they go through, all I can do is empathize, evaluate and pick a side which I think is right, when it's on the table.
And it's quite ironic when you say "Do they feel life is unfair? So it is, for other persons as well, fight and win" but on the other hand, when gays try to do exactly that with protests etc, you say "keep it to yourself, stop this propaganda, nobody cares."
Human sexuality is not an utilitarian concept, yes, it has its biological roots but that's just part of the equation. So, the functions of the organs etc is irrelevant, same things can be said about oral sex or foot fetish, they serve no purpose other than joy. So, that's quite a dead end as an argument. Someone can say, if you're not going to have children, you shouldn't have sex at all, the only purpose should be reproduction. Actually, some people already do, maybe you should consider converting to Catholicism. 
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted January 04, 2015 07:37 PM |
|
|
As I said, you interpret my words in the way it arranges you. Fight and win is what I mean: fight and win. No scream or protest, this is browse air.
Work, work, cultivate yourself, become someone, give back to society. They will accept you no matter who you bang. Stay and do nothing, cry at discrimination, people will ignore you, because you are not worth of listening. You are gay, and what?
Due to health problems, my job went down in 2 years from 35 hours/week to 16, salary included. Yet I force myself do to physical exercises, run early in the morning, then try to work all day while my head ache is constant and unbearable. Is unfair but I never protested or claimed to have things for free because I am special. My illness could provide me free income (viva la Francia and health care) but I have better opinion about me for pretending that. And it makes me stronger.
|
|
meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
|
|
posted January 04, 2015 07:39 PM |
|
|
No no no Artu, us Catholic's love sex - its just we love the guilt that goes with it. Nothing better than Confession or a birch switch on your back after a good roll in the hay.
____________
Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted January 04, 2015 07:52 PM |
|
Edited by artu at 19:55, 04 Jan 2015.
|
Nobody has to have exceptional achievements in order to not be discriminated. A social movement can benefit from such individual figures, what's wrong is though, to demonstrate them as the only way out.
Let's assume there is a racist discrimination against Romanian immigrants in France, you with your concerts and music, stand as an example and people say "look at Salamandre, he is also an immigrant, shame on you." That's perfectly fine. I agree that individual achievement is one of the best ways to fight prejudice, but so is unity and protest.
If Romanian immigrants who are desk clerks, garbage pickers, nurses etc prepare a protest against discrimination, a French racist wouldn't be in a justified position if he says something like "play Brahms and you'll be fine, we have nothing against Romanians like Salamandre, stop whining."
meroe said:
No no no Artu, us Catholic's love sex - its just we love the guilt that goes with it. Nothing better than Confession or a birch switch on your back after a good roll in the hay.
Meroe, you naughty nun...
|
|
LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
|
|
posted January 04, 2015 08:58 PM |
|
|
Since you have chosen to pick my country as an example I have the duty to interfere
Artu, I personally and believe Salamandre too, isn't against homosexuals who act like normal and sane members of the society. Maybe I'm a little harsh with these words, but that's my opinion. It's true that as a Christian I don't consider it natural, but people's private lives doesn't concern me and it's not my right to judge them. So I got nothing against gay and lesbian people who keep their sexuality into the bedroom and don't announce every person they meet. There was a joke "A gay, a vegan and a feminist enter into a bar, I know this because they told everyone in the first 5 minutes." I don't care if you are damn gay, I didn't ask you, so dress decently on the streets and not like a damn rainbow, no one cares if you are gay, and stop doing vulgar things in public, even if you are straight, expressing your sexuality in public is damn gross. And about your "example", people have something against thieves and criminals be them Romanian, gypsy, French or anything else, I also got something with thieves regardless of their nationality. I will be honest: Romanian immigrant thieves annoys me even more because they give my country a bad name.
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted January 04, 2015 09:08 PM |
|
|
The problem is, there's a lot of behavior that's seen as normal when it's done by straight people that's seen as "flaunting their sexuality" when done by gay people.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
|
|
posted January 04, 2015 09:21 PM |
|
Edited by Lexxan at 21:24, 04 Jan 2015.
|
The thing is, most gays are a tad more flamboyant and effeminate than what is considered "normal" by morally conservative societies. And this behaviour comes natural to them as well. Are they not entitled to express their behavour the way you express yours?
ETA: this "i like gays as long as they don't act too gay" argument kind of irks me tbh, because it's almost equal to saying that "well i like gays the best when you can pass them off as straight" which is... kind of not the point of "being gay".
____________
Coincidence? I think not!!!!
|
|
Orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted January 04, 2015 09:22 PM |
|
|
|
This is why temporary banning all public demonstrations of the orientation can serve as the best way to help making the sexuality choices equal, if you really want them to. After that, a change of the generation will do the rest of the work.
|
|
Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
|
|
posted January 04, 2015 09:27 PM |
|
Edited by Lexxan at 21:28, 04 Jan 2015.
|
Yes and no. Promoting neutrality is an important part in reaching acceptance and tolerance, but accomplishing it by banning sexual minorities from holding parades is walking two steps back while you're trying to move forward. (unless you are consistent and also ban all parade on the subject; but we want to live in a society which bans all forms of expressing one's opinion just so nobody may feel offended at something? I wouldn't.)
In the democratic societies we strive to live in, everyone needs to maintain the prerogative of expressing their identities and opinions, both positive and negative.
____________
Coincidence? I think not!!!!
|
|
LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
|
|
posted January 04, 2015 09:31 PM |
|
|
mvassilev said:
The problem is, there's a lot of behavior that's seen as normal when it's done by straight people that's seen as "flaunting their sexuality" when done by gay people.
Lexxan said:
The thing is, most gays are a tad more flamboyant and effeminate than what is considered "normal" by morally conservative societies. And this behaviour comes natural to them as well. Are they not entitled to express their behavour the way you express yours?
ETA: this "i like gays as long as they don't act too gay" argument kind of irks me tbh, because it's almost equal to saying that "well i like gays the best when you can pass them off as straight" which is... kind of not the point of "being gay".
Yeah right, just look at gay parades, would you even call that clothing? Even if it was on a straight person...
Or better compare the gay parade from 50s with the gay parades from now. How could they dress and act normal then and now they can't keep their clothes on (I repeat: if you can call them clothes)
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted January 04, 2015 09:36 PM |
|
|
@LizardWarrior
Well, the idea was to give Sal's country as an example, not yours
+ What Mvass said.
+ When the topic at hand is not religion itself, (if that was the case, I would try to convince you why it's not true, all the way), I don't think all religious people are significantly prejudiced against such things anyway. I have no problem with people of faith such as yourself, I have never witnessed you trying to act as God's secretary, when there are questions of debate on the table. I already stated my position on the relationship between religion and prejudice, right on this thread here.
As you can see, our opinions are not that far away when it comes to getting tastelessly loud about personal preference, but as a devoted member of the church called "action causes reaction" I'd say, it's not fair to accuse people who are oppressed unjustly, when they unite to do something about it. Yes, I also think they can find a better way to protest (though, I also think I should have no legal right to interfere) but putting all the blame on the fashion they represent themselves is biased.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted January 04, 2015 09:49 PM |
|
|
LizardWarrior said:
Yeah right, just look at gay parades, would you even call that clothing? Even if it was on a straight person...
The problem is, it's not just pride parades that are seen as "flaunting". People say that about gays holding hands and kissing in public, having their relationships portrayed in the media (e.g. Korra), etc.
It's true that straight people don't have pride parades, but that's because they don't need them - they're not oppressed for being straight.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
| |
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
