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Orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted January 04, 2015 09:53 PM |
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Edited by Orzie at 22:02, 04 Jan 2015.
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In the democratic societies we strive to live in, everyone needs to maintain the prerogative of expressing their identities and opinions, both positive and negative.
You automatically allow anti-gay parades by these words.
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It's true that straight people don't have pride parades, but that's because they don't need them - they're not oppressed for being straight.
However, emphasizing on the issue too much like the gay parades are only gives birth to a counteraction rather than understatement. It's more a show/provocation than an actual protest with serious intentions.
The compromise is in the temporary neutrality. This is what will give certainly positive results. Beating discrimination with discrimination orienting on the words like "they suffered more than us" is not a key, whatever tolerance fanboys think. A rather good solution is present in Sweden, I heard that they removed the mother/father paragraphs in documents and replaced it with parent #1 and #2. It's presented to us Russians as the degradation of the family institution while it's obviously the best solution to deal with the slippery moments.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 04, 2015 09:57 PM |
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Why half of people in this thread is reciting the manual of the perfect citizen and immaculate human being? 
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted January 04, 2015 09:58 PM |
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I said I just think it's unnatural, not that I'm being God's secretary. I also said I won't judge them on their sexual orientation, but I don't agree with the indecent clothing and loud advertising. And what stays at the base of society if not a series of moral values approved by the majority? I believe you think that democracy is a just system, so is here, if only 15% of population is against a president, it doesn't mean he shouldn't get accepted by all of them, so is it with these moral guidelines, you are allowed to do it in the limit of decency.
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted January 04, 2015 10:02 PM |
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Edited by Lexxan at 22:04, 04 Jan 2015.
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It looks decadent to the beholder if you are unaware of the symbolism about it. I won't deny that.
The thing is however, gay parades aren't just about twinky teens clad in silk undergarments sashaying over the streets like a cohort of tree-shagging pixies. GPs are about liberty. The liberty of not having to be afraid for being the person that you are.
You're all straight, I presume? Then you haven't experienced at first hand what it is to be closeted. I have. I'm flexible about how I label my own sexuality: I've developed romantic feelings for both genders in the past, but i have primarily developed crushes on men - hence why I identify as both gay and bisexual (and i'm out as gay to my friends) while I'm technically neither... or both, depending how you look at it.
Either way, being in the closet is a form of psychological torment. It's being constantly confused about your feelings. You feel ashamed for being the person that you are. You feel ashamed for your nature and are paranoid someone might find out. For many people it is traumatizing, not unlike bullying (and in many case this comes on top of being bullied). Don't make the mistake of thinking that being gay is easy, even in Western Society. There no sentiment WORSE than self-loathing. The guilt you feel for being as you are is the absolute rock bottom of human emotionality. People may be accepting over here, but that's no argument: the fear of being disowned and rejected because of something you have no control over is harrowing in its omnipresence.
In my case, my parents are both conservative and especially my mother (who is from Bulgaria) holds views not quite unlike yours. I'm more of less out to them, I suppose. They still think I'm going through a "fase of my life" although I'm 24 and well beyond the point of developing into adulthood. Regardless, I feel free and comfortable with myself and who I am because I know that all they want for me is to be happy in life.
When I came out to my friends, it felt like a huge burden was lifted off my shoulders. As you can imagine, it's always awkward when you're around other men and they ask you what girls you are into and you're supposed to answer the question although you're not *that* into girls.  So i just answered that question truthfully when it came, *shrugs*
and I'm far from the only person who went through all of this.
Gay parades are camp and frivolous and decadent, if you will, but that is because they are borne from the sentiment of coming out. Of not being afraid of being different and in fact being allowed to be proud of it. The shackles that chained us are broken. Gay Parades are a metaphor for this. It may be hard to understand if you're not part of a demograph that is discriminated against (though it's fairly uncommon nowadays, thankfully), but that's where it come from.
Only a fraction of the gay orientation cling to a constant state of camp - they're the ones who, in spite of them coming out, desperately cling for acceptance and reassurance that their sexuality is indeed okay, when, you know, of course it is. (not to be confused with the fraction who simply enjoys being camp). Personally I feel sorry for them, but don't judge them too harshly: deep down they're insecure with themselves and all they want is a hug and some kind words.
As far as the parades go.. I don't mind them, obviously. They don't appeal that much to me either (I'm actually kind of a prude and a hopeless romantic and therefore don't approve of oversexualization in romances, which i find a shallow and misguided representation of love), but I understand where they come from and dammit, let them do their thing. It's not about you. It's about them.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted January 04, 2015 10:07 PM |
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Yeah right, Gay parades are just a form of tasteless over-sexualized form of street circus. Don't go with modern art explanation of vulgar clothing symbolizing sexual freedom or such 
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted January 04, 2015 10:08 PM |
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People overcompensate. What gives?
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted January 04, 2015 10:09 PM |
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted January 04, 2015 10:13 PM |
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Edited by Lexxan at 22:13, 04 Jan 2015.
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Whom with though? Most people who participate in gay parades don't go on to brag about it with people who disapprove of it
in fact, they're likely to not care at all, since they experience it as something different entirely.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted January 04, 2015 10:14 PM |
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But they care so much they even have their own parade to say we don't care about your opinions, thus only showing they do REALLY care
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Orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted January 04, 2015 10:15 PM |
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Edited by Orzie at 22:20, 04 Jan 2015.
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The question is how straight people take it. If the intention of the parade is to remind that gays exist, it's a wrong way since it looks much more as a circus than a march for people's rights. If the intention of the parade is to have fun in an extraordinary manner - it doesn't have anything to do with social protests and thus should not be defended as strong as such.
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted January 04, 2015 10:17 PM |
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Care? Of course they care! But not about the disapproval of others. They care because they don't want others to feel repressed because of their sexuality, like they have felt in the past.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted January 04, 2015 10:21 PM |
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It's not the method I would use to raise gay awareness either, Orzie. I am generally hypercritical of how homosexuality is represented in society myself, for obvious reasons.
Regardless, if that's the method they choose, there's very little you and I can do against that, other than stay away from the GP or go to it yourself and witness what they actually are about.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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LizardWarrior
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the reckoning is at hand
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posted January 04, 2015 10:21 PM |
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So in order for others of their kind to don't get oppressed they perpetuate the kind of actions that give them the bad reputation and attracts bullying, what a flawless logic!
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted January 04, 2015 10:22 PM |
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See it as a middle-finger to all those that opressed them in their youth.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted January 04, 2015 10:25 PM |
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Salamandre said:
Why half of people in this thread is reciting the manual of the perfect citizen and immaculate human being?
That's really not what it is, Sal. You are way too overconservative about this issue. Maybe, in classical music social circles in France, the thing went over its head, I don't know. But really, I know JJ can be smug sometimes but he was right when he told you to just listen to yourself, you say things like "what if we face extinction when all society turns gay" etc... It's like you are writing from another planet.
LizardWarrior said:
I said I just think it's unnatural, not that I'm being God's secretary. I also said I won't judge them on their sexual orientation, but I don't agree with the indecent clothing and loud advertising. And what stays at the base of society if not a series of moral values approved by the majority? I believe you think that democracy is a just system, so is here, if only 15% of population is against a president, it doesn't mean he shouldn't get accepted by all of them, so is it with these moral guidelines, you are allowed to do it in the limit of decency.
I haven't claimed you were acting as God's secretary, I said I have no problem with people who are religious (such as yourself) as long as they don't act as God's secretary. Democracy is indeed a system but not a system that applies as "majority decides on everything about each individual's every choice."
Lexxan said:
As far as the parades go.. I don't mind them, obviously. They don't appeal that much to me either (I'm actually kind of a prude and a hopeless romantic and therefore don't approve of oversexualization in romances, which i find a shallow and misguided representation of love), but I understand where they come from and dammit, let them do their thing. It's not about you. It's about them.
If they are festivals, sure, who am I to judge. If they are protests that are trying to get a point across, they fail miserably as you can witness yourself in this thread. If they are some unique combination that merges the two, then, hmmm, interesting...
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LizardWarrior
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the reckoning is at hand
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posted January 04, 2015 10:25 PM |
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A middle-finger? More like making themselves look like fools and giving these persons that bullied them another reason to ridicule their orientation, instead of actually showing they can be perfectly normal despite their sexual preferences
Quote:
I haven't claimed you were acting as God's secretary, I said I have no problem with people who are religious (such as yourself) as long as they don't act as God's secretary. Democracy is indeed a system but not a system that applies as "majority decides on everything about each individual's every choice."
I wasn't talking about every individual's choice, I was comparing the moral guidelines with laws, we can't enforce their orientation, but we can enforce a decent behavior in public areas.
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted January 04, 2015 10:27 PM |
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Yes well.. that is an astute description of something you only know of because you're watched that 10 second yearly clip on the news that showcases all the campness.
I haven't been to one either (though I would like to participate in one someday, just to see what they're truly like), but at least i try to understand what's behind them.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted January 04, 2015 10:32 PM |
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Quote:
More like making themselves look like fools and giving these persons that bullied them another reason to ridicule their orientation, instead of actually showing they can be perfectly normal despite their sexual preferences
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted January 04, 2015 10:33 PM |
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If they'd want to be accepted they should make it clear so the population can understand in that 10min clip, so it may accept it at one point. You said it was a social protest, then its message should be understandably by the large public
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted January 04, 2015 10:38 PM |
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Edited by artu at 22:40, 04 Jan 2015.
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LizardWarrior said:
but we can enforce a decent behavior in public areas.
I wont get into a debate about what is decent behavior and how subjective it is, etc because it has been done so many times. Yes, there is a social reality that manifests itself as "decent behavior in public." You cant walk around naked, you cant pull a blanket and sleep in front of the parliament, you cant masturbate on national TV, the examples would be endless... The actual issue is not gays violating the consensus on what that "decent behavior" is, the issue is, there are double standards that applies to them.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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