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fred79
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posted July 26, 2020 02:20 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
Fred, if India and Pakistan decide to have a go at each other, or Russia and China, for that matter - or even Greece and Turkey, so you really think it has no effect on the US? Isn't the current Covid thing GLOBAL? I mean, even if in the US all was peachy - you still had to lock down against everyone coming in, and the US would still be hit by the global recession. Indirectly.
If they continue to clear the rainforest in Brazil, the climate will change for everyone. If those countries now industrialzing like hell will continue to do so, the climate will change for everyone.
We need to solve our problems on a global level. It's pretty simple, and realizing that isn't a question of political stances, but of reason.
Mmm... Uh-huh. And i'll ask you again: do all germans feel this way, or just the leftists?
Not even going to point out how your response wasn't even an answer to my question... you went right off the reservation there...
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JollyJoker
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posted July 26, 2020 03:19 PM |
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Why would I care how many think so in a specific nation? It's all reasonable people, obviously, and I suppose the percentage is good in Germany
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fred79
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posted July 26, 2020 03:37 PM |
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The protesting left are now shooting at people just trying to go about their day, and trying to lie about it and say the right are attacking them(and getting caught lying about this in the process).
Rightist protestors, for contrast, during the Virginia Gun Rally this past January where they were protesting governor northam and the other democrats pushing unconstitutional anti-2nd Amendment laws, were absolutely civil and without any unlawful incident whatsoever. More than 20,000 people participated in that rally, and most, if not nearly ALL, were carrying guns.
This is the difference between the left and right, regarding protests: the left break laws when protesting, blocking highways and roads and are violent towards anyone with an opposing viewpoint(and even people just trying to get to where they're going), to the point of attempted and even successful murder of regular people, all while attempting to incite violent reactions from their opposers endlessly; while the right stand around calmly, armed to the goddamn TEETH, and ACTUALLY peacefully protest without hurting or even threatening anyone, nor vandalizing or looting or attacking anything.
It's a stark contrast that cannot be refuted by any sane individual.
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JollyJoker
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posted July 26, 2020 04:29 PM |
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Nonsense claims with nonsense terms - and no connection with the fact that global problems need global solutions.
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artu
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posted July 26, 2020 05:37 PM |
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Well, I guess Michael German, a former FBI agent specializing in domestic terrorism and current fellow at the Brennan Center for Justice is not a sane individual then:
German argued that the impulse to paint both sides of the political spectrum with the same brush, despite the fact that only the far right is actively killing people, is among the most dangerous features of modern American law enforcement. In his review of the documents produced in response to the recent protests, German said purported “threats” from antifa were routinely overblown, often framed vandalism as terrorism and were typically absent of concrete evidence of serious criminal activity.
“It’s chatter, it’s ‘intelligence reporting suggests,’” he said. On June 2, for example, the Department of Homeland Security circulated a tweet to law enforcement agencies across the country reporting that antifa was stashing bricks to “fuel protests.” The intelligence made its way to a law enforcement fusion center in Maine. Last week, Mainer magazine tracked down the original source of the tweet: a far-right, pro-Trump biker who goes by the name “the Wolfman,” who claimed that Facebook kept deleting his brick-planting evidence “because they are BLM supporters.”
Even if antifa were staging bricks, German said, “you have these heavily armed groups right there, who have a much more direct and lengthy history of violence than anything antifa or anarchist-involved does.” Unlike the information circulated about antifa, much of the intelligence reporting in the BlueLeaks documents regarding threats from the far right is tightly focused on specific events, German noted. “That’s the way it should be,” he said. Far-right extremists have been targeting and killing law enforcement, not to mention members of the general public, for generations, German explained, and in fact, the government’s own documents show that those ideas were percolating in extremist corners of the right at the same time that Trump and U.S. Attorney General William Barr were preparing to crack down on the left.
Source
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Blizzardboy
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posted July 26, 2020 06:35 PM |
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The radical left has demonstrated an unparalleled ability to exterminate people far beyond anything anybody else has ever done, but this is a systemic evil that is coldly and impartially committed by a vast government behemoth that answers to nobody. In a radical scenario, the state owns the means of production, so any remnant of checks & balances in a legislative system is gone to provide any sort of meaningful accountability. There is nothing to restrain them.
Now, in terms of militia groups and localized terrorism, this is usually something done by the right. The right has a lot more difficulty organizing itself on a scale that the left can because it usually ingrains itself through vanities such as nationalism or ethnicity, which only appeal to a select group of people. The radical left can draw in all sorts of people into a revolutionary force, but the radical right relies on centralizing all of the power on the shoulders of the natives of a country. That is why the alt right and far right are almost exclusively white Americans in the USA, or native Italians in Italy, or native Filipinos in the Philippines, etc.
There are commonalities between the radical left and the radical right (the Horseshoe Theory explores this) but it is a mistake to say that they are the same. They are not.
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fred79
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posted July 26, 2020 06:36 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
Nonsense claims with nonsense terms
What are you referring to?
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JollyJoker
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posted July 26, 2020 06:45 PM |
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fred79
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posted July 26, 2020 06:50 PM |
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Blizzardboy said:
localized terrorism, this is usually something done by the right. The right has a lot more difficulty organizing itself o a scale that the left can because it usually ingrains itself through vanities such as nationalism or ethnicity, which only appeal to a select group of people.
>localized terrorism
>usually done by the right
Pure BS. You show me one actual case since the beginning of this year, that isn't leftist media lies. In fact, go back a whole year, and compare that to what the left has been doing in these past months. But first, do the former.
>right has more difficulty organizing
>what are pro-2nd Amendment gatherings/rallies/companies
How can you be so wrong about everything you discuss here on hc, unless you've either lost it entirely, or are trolling?
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fred79
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posted July 26, 2020 06:52 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
To what you wrote.
Waste of a reply. Be more specific, or don't waste my time responding.
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Blizzardboy
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posted July 26, 2020 07:05 PM |
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@fred
I mean organizing itself on the same scale as the left. The radical right and alt right form their base of power from mainstream, ingrained residents of a country (in the case of the USA, it is white Americans) who are dissatisfied with their lot in life and feel betrayed. These people are of course good at coalescing at rallies and such but they're not at all good at appealing to other demographics of people and organizing a diverse coalition.
That isn't how the radical left operates. The radical left likewise craves more status and money (they might not call it 'money' but that is what they essentially want) but it's aim is to do that by destroying the pre-existing order rather than reinforcing or restoring it. So, it has much more of a cosmopolitan allure. A black person might be attracted to communism but he is very, very unlikely to be attracted to fascism unless the fascism is based in Africa or a black majority country, where they would be able to benefit from it and enjoy more status.
This is all vanity of course, but it's impossible to understand the 20th century without understanding fascism and communism and why they are so attractive to certain people.
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fred79
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posted July 26, 2020 07:18 PM |
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Blizzardboy said:
@fred
I mean organizing itself on the same scale as the left. The radical right and alt right form their base of power from mainstream, ingrained residents of a country (in the case of the USA, it is white Americans) who are dissatisfied with their lot in life and feel betrayed. These people are of course good at coalescing at rallies and such but they're not at all good at appealing to other demographics of people and organizing a diverse coalition.
That isn't how the radical left operates. The radical left likewise craves more status and money (they might not call it 'money' but that is what they essentially want) but it's aim is to do that by destroying the pre-existing order rather than reinforcing or restoring it. So, it has much more of a cosmopolitan allure. A black person might be attracted to communism but he is very, very unlikely to be attracted to fascism unless the fascism is based in Africa or a black majority country, where they would be able to benefit from it and enjoy more status.
Uh-huh. And the "localized terrorism" part?
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Blizzardboy
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posted July 26, 2020 07:24 PM |
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Okay, I'll amend that somewhat because leftist terrorism can exist in other countries.
But, we are talking about the USA, and the USA doesn't have much of a history with communist revolutionaries. It wasn't able to gain a strong presence here because despite the many problems here, there has always been a decent amount of class mobility (though that may become less true in the future). If there is class mobility then radical leftism isn't attractive to most people. In Eastern Europe and China people were locked into the lower class with little or no way to get out of it, and that made communism extremely attractive to a lot of people.
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fred79
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posted July 26, 2020 07:34 PM |
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Blizzardboy said:
Okay, I'll amend that somewhat because leftist terrorism can exist in other countries.
But, we are talking about the USA, and the USA doesn't have much of a history with communist revolutionaries. It wasn't able to gain a strong presence here because despite the many problems here, there has always been a decent amount of class mobility (though that may become less true in the future). If there is class mobility then radical leftism isn't attractive to most people. In Eastern Europe and China people were locked into the lower class with little or no way to get out of it, and that made communism extremely attractive to a lot of people.
You have a lot more to amend than that, cowboy. I asked for an example. Don't make claims you can't back up with reality.
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Blizzardboy
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posted July 26, 2020 07:57 PM |
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fred79 said:
You have a lot more to amend than that, cowboy. I asked for an example. Don't make claims you can't back up with reality.
But fred, you've already told another poster that you won't accept any sources, so how is a person suppose to convince you of anything? The far right consists of the vast majority of threats by the FBI... which you refuse to believe because you think everything is an illusion and can never be trusted. So how can I even have a real conversation with you?
Antifa doesn't go around targeting people and killing them or do premeditated shootings. For the most part, they're a mob of discontent, bratty college-age kids that are disproportionately from single parent homes and emotionally broken families. A lot of them were neglected as children and deprived of affection. They usually do stuff like commit vandalism by attacking statues and making graffiti. Yeah, that's harmful, but it's not something you can equate with lethal violence. They're one of many sad byproducts of the sexual revolution but it isn't accurate to categorize them the same as a white militia hate group. That's just lazy.
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artu
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posted July 26, 2020 07:59 PM |
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Edited by artu at 20:06, 26 Jul 2020.
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Fred, I quoted a former FBI agent specializing in domestic terrorism, where he says far-right is the real threat when it comes to violence. What are you on, ffs.
@blizz
“The sexual revolution” is inevitable unless you want to marry people when they are sixteen like in pre-industrial times. We have birth control, condoms, abortion and all sorts of stuff to prevent unwanted kids. There is really no way to unjustify the sexual revolution. Even the Pope himself cant do that, so better stop trying.
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fred79
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posted July 26, 2020 08:08 PM |
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Edited by fred79 at 20:20, 26 Jul 2020.
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@ blizz:
What i believe is video evidence, unaltered video stills, and the like. Something that cannot be refuted.
I'm waiting. You're not producing anything validating your point.
Here, i'll produce something for you, instead:
leftist caught lying about who shot at and wounded who. Read all the comments and check the still images. The protestor who fired on the jeep was pinpointed, as well. Though, maybe not in the Twitter feed.
Things are getting more violent, with the left being the perpetrators. They're arming themselves, and being armed, and now attacking people because the right aren't responding to their online bait to attack the left. Educate yourself before you further embarrass yourself.
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fred79
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posted July 26, 2020 08:19 PM |
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Edited by fred79 at 20:25, 26 Jul 2020.
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artu said:
Fred, I quoted a former FBI agent specializing in domestic terrorism, where he says far-right is the real threat when it comes to violence. What are you on, ffs.
The law-abiding, pro-Constitution right IS a threat: to the corrupt officials and agencies in the government, msm, and businesses doing everything they can to subjugate, divide, and control the masses with every power they have. Why do you think they try so hard to attack the right and call them terrorists and racists despite them being law-abiding citizens who only want the U.S. Constitution followed and the corruption stopped? Why do you think they keep PASSING further restrictive and unconstitutional laws regarding firearms?
What are YOU on???
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Blizzardboy
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posted July 26, 2020 08:21 PM |
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@artu:
A promise of perpetual celibacy until marriage or death, of course.
Nobody is expecting everybody to have kids when they're 16. People don't usually even graduate from college until their 20s.
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JollyJoker
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posted July 26, 2020 08:23 PM |
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Twitter ... Sexual revolution ...
You guys need to get laid.
Artu, you still feel like it makes sense debating here? Just let fred argue with blizzardboy - they probably deserve each other, discussionwise.
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