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Salamandre
Admirable
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Wog refugee
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posted April 01, 2016 12:24 PM |
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Gotta love haters "translations". Trump said literally "there has to be a form of punishment", which is very nuanced from the later incorrect "women must be punished".
Things we do have consequences. Some are irreversible, others not. Having sex is not like eating chocolate, it can lead to such dramatic consequences which will change your life, and should not be considered so lightly as people do today. The familial environment HAS a pinnacle role into educating their kids about such consequences and the permanent wounds they could produce, if early pregnancy. Then school should emphasize and generalize this education, and ultimately the doctors should not be allowed to profit from exploiting others misery and immaturity.
When you come with rational arguments, you realize that "a form of punishment" could be related to all aforementioned factors which contribute today to having abortions like passing driving tests. Independently from the religious fact, which is respectable but also debatable.
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Stevie
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Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 01, 2016 12:38 PM |
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 01, 2016 01:03 PM |
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Edited by artu at 20:07, 01 Apr 2016.
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Well, "some form of punishment" certainly does not ring the bell like "we must educate people more about it." It sounds more like, he's tickling his conservative pro-life voter base that are against abortion itself.
Speaking of, as many people explained with detail in the related thread, abortion is clearly not murder. And the only way to compare the termination of a fetus which has not yet developed a brain, to killing a conscious human being with the capability of sentiment is if you believe in some sort of "soul" that starts to exist right after the moment of conception. By that logic, taking a morning-after pill would also be murder and I have never seen anybody except the overzealous religious types, who would define taking a morning-after pill as murder. Abortion is no more murder than pulling the plug on a brain dead patient. In both cases, there is no brain activity to support the existence of "a person."
Abortion is a very unpleasant experience for the women who go through it, both physically and psychologically. So, nobody would casually ignore protection and prefer to go to an abortion clinic once a month as "a handy solution" anyway. Sure, it would be a good thing to educate people more about safe sex but there will always be cases, many cases, involving dysfunctional condoms, passionate moments of weakness, fetuses with critical health problems, not to mention rape victims etc. So, the procedure will remain a necessity.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted April 01, 2016 01:37 PM |
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Salamandre said:
Gotta love haters "translations". Trump said literally "there has to be a form of punishment", which is very nuanced from the later incorrect "women must be punished".
Well, it is not quite clear. After all, it was in the news in my country. It was just a different interpretation.
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Salamandre
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Wog refugee
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posted April 01, 2016 01:57 PM |
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I don't doubt of that, here is exactly same, I open news then I see people violently spiting at "women must be punished". So I went to see the video and it was not quite that, along with the fact that the journalist is trying his best to trap him into amoral brands.
I already said that Trump arguments were poor, he is just repeating to the other "are you christian?" but, in ANY case, deformed quotes are a good examples why the medias are able to annihilate or create presidents and why left and right differences can't anymore survive, once they get filtered and reformulated by the despicable and omnipotent medias.
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Stevie
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posted April 01, 2016 02:22 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 14:25, 01 Apr 2016.
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artu said:
abortion is clearly not murder. And the only way to compare the termination of a fetus which has not yet developed a brain, to killing a conscious human being with the capability of sentiment is if you believe some sort of "soul" that starts to exist the moment after contraception.
Personhood does not depend on development, is an intrinsic attribute of a human being which by all means begins existing at conception. Even scientifically and medically, a new being is conceived when the sperm enters the egg and forms a one celled zygote. The fact that it doesn't have a brain yet is irrelevant, it has its own genes and chromosomes different from those of the parents, and unlike brain death, it holds the potential to grow which is essential. It is not the same thing unless you superficially consider the circumstances. In this sense, cutting the life support from a fetus is indeed murder.
That's not to say that the "religious" argument is not important, but secularists are all but blind to it.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 01, 2016 02:51 PM |
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Stevie said:
artu said:
abortion is clearly not murder. And the only way to compare the termination of a fetus which has not yet developed a brain, to killing a conscious human being with the capability of sentiment is if you believe some sort of "soul" that starts to exist the moment after contraception.
Personhood does not depend on development, is an intrinsic attribute of a human being which by all means begins existing at conception. Even scientifically and medically, a new being is conceived when the sperm enters the egg and forms a one celled zygote. The fact that it doesn't have a brain yet is irrelevant, it has its own genes and chromosomes different from those of the parents, and unlike brain death, it holds the potential to grow which is essential. It is not the same thing unless you superficially consider the circumstances. In this sense, cutting the life support from a fetus is indeed murder.
That's not to say that the "religious" argument is not important, but secularists are all but blind to it.
The religious argument is not important because fortunately, in a civilized world, nobody is forced to believe in it or care about it. Any woman is free to believe abortion is a sin and act accordingly, any woman is free not to believe so. End of story.
The potential to be something is not being that thing. Scientifically, your personhood (what makes you actually human, not "potentially" human) is the result of your brain activity. It is having a unique DNA print which is irrelevant, a brain dead person still has unique DNA (or fingerprints) but he is considered a corpse when his brain dies. So, no brain = no personhood. If technology advances enough and enables us to download our consciousness to a computer and leave our body, for example, destroying that machine would be murder but getting rid of the old body wouldn't. What makes you "you" is specifically in your brain, not in any other part of your body.
What is superficial is trying to push the notion that aborting something that doesn't even have a developed central nerve system yet, is identical to murder. Words like genocide or murder are not to be taken lightly, and I don't suppose, in real life, even the most fanatical anti-abortionists, actually treat the lady next door like a serial killer if they happen to find out she uses a morning-after pill every now and then. Their ideology traps them into claiming something that is obviously very out of proportion.
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted April 01, 2016 05:26 PM |
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kipshasz said:
Agree with what Stevie said.
In this world where there are 49845168418564128695412065832 different kinds of contraception abortion is unacceptable.
Also, this:
If this isn't racist, I don't know what is. So that means trailer parks aren't ghetto for white people?
VerVery ironic I was literally on this exact quote watching the Flint debate and that's out of context for one thing. The use of terminology is suspect out of context but anyways..
Bernie is not the lessor evil, but the greater good. One of his primary focuses is to end corruption and corporations control greed etc..
Im not repeating their words to anyone who will noy listen for themselves as much as i used to..
No offense and i am guilty of the same thing but i need to remind myself that these photos are not always the whole truth..
I could have picked out plenty of sentances and appealed to the biases all day.
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Celfious
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posted April 01, 2016 05:35 PM |
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Edited by Celfious at 17:41, 01 Apr 2016.
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But crazy,coincidence this 2 hour debate and I run into that quote here not even 5 minutes past hearing it!!
Trust me Kip he was not racist in his response to the question regarding what he and Hilary do not know because they are not black.
Bernie's not racist bro he was fighting to end segregation in the60s.,he got arrested for standing up for black rights in times when racism was the norm. And since has been very consistent with that.
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kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted April 01, 2016 05:49 PM |
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but it sure does look like it, and I personally think he lost a lot of votes with that statement. look at all the homeless US army vets who now sit on the street with a begging bowl. most of those fellows are white.
So, what about his foreign policies? wage war against Czar Vladimir I of House Putin?
Oh, wait, that's Hillary's intentions. just look at that devious grin of hers. just like my mother in law. A witch more devious than the Devil himself.
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted April 01, 2016 05:55 PM |
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I have to admit I don't know a lot of specifics but I am nothing but filled with hope ffor the first time by his core
I would put that in my own words but, beyond screw the corporations build the middle class and world peace.. On top of environmental awareness, etc etc... Its decent I believe..
If hilary,didn't have such a history she does I would pay more attention to her. But still, for me It comes down to anyone but trump if not Bernie.
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Blizzardboy
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Nerf Herder
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posted April 01, 2016 06:22 PM |
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Salamandre said:
Gotta love haters "translations". Trump said literally "there has to be a form of punishment", which is very nuanced from the later incorrect "women must be punished".
Stupidity and dishonesty from the left has been a major cause for Trump's success, because instead of breaking down his base, it just attracts publicity and creates even a feeling of victimization. You could simply respond to Trump's platform like a normal person, and win, but apparently some people think further exaggerating what he says is a smart idea. I mean, it's not like we live in a world where references can be easily checked or anything.  The fact that the left (among supporters) is more violent than the right isn't helpful for publicity either.
Trump is like the kid in the classroom that feeds and thrives off of drama, and the press are like the kids that laugh at it. They are his marketers. The 2nd place, Cruz, is a Texas tea partier. The Ohio governor, Kasich, represents the calmer face of the GOP, but too many Americans are bloodthirsty to want somebody like him. Most of his votes are middle aged, higher educated constituents.
Hillary is the next president of the US, and all she is doing is being vanilla but steady amidst the "big personalities". She isn't fun to talk about because nothing shocking comes out from her campaign, and she already has so much recognition that she doesn't need to.
Sanders won't survive New York/Pennsylvania, but his campaign is still successful long-term for its idealogy, because of the info waves it generated. Democratic socialism is officially a fully mainstream voice in the States again after taking a 6o-year-long nap that began in the 50s. It enjoyed more prevalence in the US than it did in Europe in the 40s and we might see that role reversal happen again.
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Zenofex
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posted April 01, 2016 08:23 PM |
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As much as I dislike both of the mainstream candidates (really, you've nearly fallen to our level here in the Balkans where we have to choose between worse and worst, not even just bad), Trump's talks about moderate isolationism gets my sympathy, even if I'd normally spit at the likes of him. Bullcrap like this makes me wonder where the whole thing will end and at this point I'll welcome anyone willing to put an end to it.
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markkur
Honorable
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Once upon a time
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posted April 01, 2016 09:48 PM |
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kipshasz said:
Agree with what Stevie said.
In this world where there are 49845168418564128695412065832 different kinds of contraception abortion is unacceptable.
And I agree with Kip that agreed with Stevie.
What if one day DNA makes it possible to "locate aborters" so THEY could be aborted before aborting another life and well ahead of the mess. What would the folks today in favor...say then?
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted April 01, 2016 09:56 PM |
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Edited by Gryphs at 23:04, 01 Apr 2016.
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markkur said:
What if one day DNA makes it possible to "locate aborters" so THEY could be aborted before aborting another life and well ahead of the mess. What would the folks today in favor...say then?
It would still be up to the mother of the child. If it was not what is stopping people from aborting other genetically "defunct" fetuses.
Also it is incredibly hard to imagine that this could be the case, as abortion is almost always done as a result of external factors.
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artu
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 01, 2016 11:26 PM |
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markkur said:
What if one day DNA makes it possible to "locate aborters" so THEY could be aborted before aborting another life and well ahead of the mess. What would the folks today in favor...say then?
I don't understand your point. Abortion is a decision, how can you track a decision using DNA? And what do you mean by locating aborters? The aborters are not doing anything in secret, they go to a doctor and register, they are already "located." If you mean traveling back in time and abort the aborters while they were themselves fetuses as a way of metaphorically saying "what if you were the one who was aborted," then, I would not have existed in the first place and it would have been an alternative historical line. The same would have applied if my parents had not met or had my great grandfather died in a siege.
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted April 01, 2016 11:32 PM |
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Edited by Gryphs at 23:32, 01 Apr 2016.
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artu said:
I don't understand your point. Abortion is a decision, how can you track a decision using DNA?
I believe he was using it in a genetic predisposition context such as alcoholism.
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted April 01, 2016 11:48 PM |
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Edited by Kayna at 23:51, 01 Apr 2016.
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My political opinion is that you cannot really change things unless you grab a gun and shoot every politician and lobbyist that tramples on the downtrodden. Someone prove me how you can change the world with the "power" of tweets and forum posts and I'll stop trolling forever. When a problem cannot be solved, might as well laugh at it, yes?
That said, if I was American, I'd be tempted to vote for Trump out of scientific curiosity. He's something new, let's try it? Even though he'd be horrible ha. The one most likely to bring good is Bernie Sanders, although I think he's over hyped. How many president has promised change, only to not deliver once they end up in the white house? What makes me believe his righteousness is over hyped is his opinion on Obama. He thinks Obama did a great job. Obama promised stuff, ended president, then all the other powerful people spun and weaved their poisonous webs to make Obama do what they wanted.
If Bernie approves of Obama's job, it means he considers those webs of plot to be a normal thing to deal with and accept. To me, this means he will most likely be trapped in the same webs and do the same crap as every president prior.
kipshasz said:
Also, this:
Honestly, the only opinion I respect about this image is people that can see the so obviously stupid word twist there. It's ok to recognize that people sometimes doesn't word things right.
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted April 02, 2016 12:02 AM |
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Edited by Celfious at 00:03, 02 Apr 2016.
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I'm no expert, I don't know everything, but from what I gather Trump purposefully or not antagonizes the hatred of many sources. From random individuals and groups in America to leadership and armies in other countries, it seems pretty clear Trump as president would result in bombings, riots, and perhaps even martial law.
Would trump be great under other circumstances? Sure. The best.
However, the following can be completed by anyone with slight common sense. One goes to Trump the other goes to Bernie.
Inspires Hatred ---
Inspires Harmony ---
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted April 02, 2016 12:35 AM |
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Edited by Kayna at 00:36, 02 Apr 2016.
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Trump doesn't just inspire hatred. Yes, political opinions and situations are complex. Pretty much, the US has a voter base that is indeed hateful, and they mostly represent the republican base. However, the republicans have been abusing them in return in many ways, and they lie as often as every other political group, perhaps even a tad more. Trump simply offers honesty about it, and they love him for it. So it's not just hatred of races and such, it's also being fed up with lies and schemes, whether they are "good" schemes or not.
Nothing currently makes me laugh more than the current state of the Republican party with Donald trump ; his approach of being openly racist and hateful versus the rest of the Republicans that apparently cannot go beyond word twists and subliminal messages of hatred and racism. The millions of people debating which is best between the two. LOL! oh god these Republican voters makes me laugh so hard!
The new generations are still innocent, just in a different way. Nobody believes these old corrupt morons anymore, instead they sort of worship a fantasy ideology. It's the new way. Everybody's tired of these patronizing figures we're supposed to trust. Young people today wants the truth, no matter what it is.
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