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properkheldar
Famous Hero
Keeper of books
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posted August 26, 2015 09:59 PM |
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I would really like to know why hero specializations isnt matched with classes and avaliable skills. I mean, if a hero has "Water magic master" as a specc naturally it should be able to reach grandmaster in that skill. Anything else is absurd. Its like the devs themself didnt want to work within the confines of the restricted skill system they themself created. This has to be adressed, now choosing a hero makes no sense. And reusing so many hero portraits from H6 for dungeon, geez. And the steed is to purple. Nitpicking now, but dungeon had so much promise...
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"Man spends his life in reasoning on the past, in complaining of the present, in fearing future."
- Antoine Rivarol
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted August 26, 2015 10:26 PM |
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fuChris said:
I would like to belive that Limbic/Blackhole put the effort in but if they have to make a game only using a rubberband, some string, a paperclip and some tinfoil instead of a normal budget then then some leniency is due.
Absolutely NOT! If they got budget they know they can't work with they should not have accepted the project in the first place. And if the budget is so low, then just make a real expansion to h6, edit skill-system, magic system, etc. They could've made ton more stuff that way. Now they just spend ton of resources on copying stuff and then editing it. This doesn't even feel like a new game for crying out loud! Probably 70% if not even more of this games models are from h6. Most systems are copied or based on h6! The only reason they don't want to call it h6 expansion is that they want to milk more money by saying it's a whole new game(and the bad reputation h6 has).
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted August 26, 2015 10:29 PM |
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40 euro-s for that game? So... did they re-use the cost value of H6?
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Marzhin
Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
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posted August 26, 2015 10:40 PM |
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Stevie said:
Look, you can blame budget to a certain point, after which all there's left to blame is incompetence. And some design decisions just scream of it.
My post was only referring to the art budget. Game design or programming are different topics and a different column in the budget. But in 2015 art is definitely the biggest column, for any game. Which is sad, but we have to deal with it.
The_green_drag said:
If your still around, is there any plans on giving necropolis and dungeon's reused units some more touch ups, like you guys wanted, in an expansion or update?
I'd rather try to add more content to the game to be honest rather than just tweak the existing.
Storm-Giant said:
Why I can't simply understand is investing so many resources into high quality models when in-game they are represented in the tiniest sizes possible 
There's basically three reasons for that:
- 3D artists actually work on detailed models in Zbrush or Maya (what we call the hi-poly model) and then downgrade them to use ingame (the low-poly model). So using the detailed versions saves time. That's the simple, practical reason.
- 2D graphics, as great as they are (and trust me, I'd love to do a Heroes game with lovely hand-painted 2D graphics), are actually more expensive than 3D graphics in our HD age (finding good 2D animators is not easy, finding cheap ones is almost impossible). If we need to do 3D models and turn them into 2D sprites (like they did on H3/H4) then it's actually simpler to go full 3D.
- Marketing. It's easier to make cool looking trailers with detailed 3D models. And trailers help the game sell more.
Now I see some people may have misinterpreted my post, or maybe over-interpreted it. Heroes itself is not in any danger, but it needs to find new paths in a challenging PC market. All series that have existed for 20 years have to. Doing some art recycling seemed the best road to take. But maybe we were wrong? Time will tell.
As for Heroes VII, Limbic and us will be working on Heroes VII until the release date, and even beyond that. The map editor is really cool and allows to do great stuff, and I for one intend to use it to the max (more on that in a couple of weeks, but I think many of you will like it). And hopefully we can do expansion packs that add brand new content without having to recycle anything this time around.
Last but not least, I believe in Heroes VII. The road has not been an easy one, we had to make tough choices, but I am confident by September 29th you will see the work and the love Limbic and us have all put in this game.
In the meantime -- we are reading all of your feedback and will keep on improving, balancing, debugging. So keep them coming. Just make sure they are a bit more developed than "they changed it, now it sucks" 
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted August 26, 2015 10:46 PM |
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Edited by Pawek_13 at 22:47, 26 Aug 2015.
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Marzhin said:
Storm-Giant said:
Why I can't simply understand is investing so many resources into high quality models when in-game they are represented in the tiniest sizes possible
There's basically three reasons for that:
- 3D artists actually work on detailed models in Zbrush or Maya (what we call the hi-poly model) and then downgrade them to use ingame (the low-poly model). So using the detailed versions saves time. That's the simple, practical reason.
- 2D graphics, as great as they are (and trust me, I'd love to do a Heroes game with lovely hand-painted 2D graphics), are actually more expensive than 3D graphics in our HD age (finding good 2D animators is not easy, finding cheap ones is almost impossible). If we need to do 3D models and turn them into 2D sprites (like they did on H3/H4) then it's actually simpler to go full 3D.
- Marketing. It's easier to make cool looking trailers with detailed 3D models. And trailers help the game sell more.
I think that Storm-Giant meant that in the current version of the game battlefield is, by default, zoomed out too much. 
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Valen-Teen
Famous Hero
UFOlolOgist
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posted August 26, 2015 10:47 PM |
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Actually the game is great! M&M team, THANK YOU very much))
Waiting for reduce AI turn's time...
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Our hopes for Heroes VIII!
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted August 26, 2015 10:47 PM |
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Pawek_13 said:
I think that Storm-Giant meant that in the current version of the game battlefield is, by default, zoomed out too much.
Mot only battlefield. It is difficult to distinguish what is what on adventure map. Objects are not standing out at all.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted August 26, 2015 10:54 PM |
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Marzhin said:
In the meantime -- we are reading all of your feedback and will keep on improving, balancing, debugging. So keep them coming. Just make sure they are a bit more developed than "they changed it, now it sucks"
...except you haven't changed anything!
in all honestly, Flanking is a bit iffy at the moment: backing one square to get in a better position really shouldn't open up for flanking the way it does now. make units turn towards their attacker unless they're already in contact with an enemy (or don't have a retaliation). Battlefields are too small as well as no unit feels particularly fast or slow as everyone seems to move about half the battlefield in one turn. doesn't make creatures feel unique.
I like the fortification buildings though. way better than straight fort>citadel>castle.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted August 26, 2015 11:01 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 23:17, 26 Aug 2015.
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Marzhin said:
Heroes itself is not in any danger, but it needs to find new paths in a challenging PC market.
IMO this is where Ubi and the Team are wrong. What does this sentence even mean to start with? There was a path, which has been proven successful, and you wish to change it, why? Do you seriously think a fan of a brand will appreciate seeing the universe, the visuals, the gameplay being altered this much?
I don’t say we need to repeat the same game time and again, but do we really have to fight for features as evident than say, random skills? Can you explain me how unique and awesome hero or creature specializations will ruin the market?
I don’t even agree the gaming industry requires the franchise to go with such visuals, when you see how good games like Witcher are doing, how much this kind of visual is being liked and well-received overall?
How can you justify changing the lore the way it has been done by Erwin?
All this does not makes any sense to me, why are Heroes 5, Heroes 3, Heroes 2, IMO even Heroes 4, better games than Heroes 6?
Do you really agree Heroes 7 is the "best of" of all past iterations, can you really say that, in all honesty? Can you really say a game which would have really been a "best of" be a wrong decision, in terms of marketing?
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted August 26, 2015 11:15 PM |
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Galaad said:
All this does not makes any sense to me, why are Heroes 5, Heroes 3, Heroes 2, IMO even Heroes 4, better games than Heroes 6?
Do you really agree Heroes 7 is the "best of" of all past iterations, can you really say that, in all honesty? Can you really say a game which would have really been a "best of" be a wrong decision, in terms of marketing?
All these questions can only be answered by Erwan. Who simply smiles.
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted August 26, 2015 11:18 PM |
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EnergyZ said:
All these questions can only be answered by Erwan. Who simply smiles.
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Marzhin
Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
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posted August 26, 2015 11:19 PM |
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Galaad said:
IMO this is where Ubi and the Team are wrong. What does this sentence even mean to start with? There was a path, which has been proven successful, and you wish to change it, why?
Again, I was talking from the point of view of production and budget, not of the gameplay itself.
The truth is, it was much cheaper to make games in the 90s, so you didn't have to sell as many copies as you would have to nowadays to make a benefit. I found an old magazine article from the early 90s where some devs were happy of their game being a best-seller... after selling 3000 copies. Nowadays it's more like 3 million copies 
Times have changed, we either have to change Heroes in a fundamental way, which we don't want to do (heck, according to you we already changed it way too much, although I'm pretty sure we'll get criticized in some reviews for not changing enough  ), or change our way to produce a game, which is what we tried with H7.
I still consider H7 a "best-of album" of Heroes, but I agree it's "our" best-of album. I believe every fan would make his own best-of album, each of them different from all the others. And they would all claim to speak for the whole fanbase
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted August 26, 2015 11:26 PM |
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Man please just look at the critics, what has been said on Heroes 6, what are the reactions about Heroes 7. Why so stubborn?
But I guess it is more convenient to say Heroes 6 got good ratings and dismiss the rest.
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted August 26, 2015 11:30 PM |
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Quote:
The truth is, it was much cheaper to make games in the 90s, so you didn't have to sell as many copies as you would have to nowadays to make a benefit. I found an old magazine article from the early 90s where some devs were happy of their game being a best-seller... after selling 3000 copies. Nowadays it's more like 3 million copies
Yet, nowadays, making games is a lot easier. There are a lot of indie games out there, unreal makes it easy as hell, don't deny it, Limbic uses it, I use it and it eases the process a lot. You already got physics build in, drag and drop interface, you can separate level design from actual programming. You don't need to make your engine old style in OpenGL or DirectX, you already got one hell of a tool there. All they ask now is 5% from your profit, also the market is much much bigger, a lot of people got computers and internet now, there is steam, no need to advertise your game God knows where. I'm not a professional, maybe I'm wrong, but I honestly believe that as a big company and coming with a broken game is not an excuse these days. Sorry if I'm being rude or harsh, that's not my intention, I really hope that Limbic can come with a good game on release.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted August 26, 2015 11:32 PM |
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Pawek_13 said:
I think that Storm-Giant meant that in the current version of the game battlefield is, by default, zoomed out too much.
Indeed.
frostymuaddib said:
Pawek_13 said:
I think that Storm-Giant meant that in the current version of the game battlefield is, by default, zoomed out too much.
Mot only battlefield. It is difficult to distinguish what is what on adventure map. Objects are not standing out at all.
More than size, that has to do with the colour palette. Buildings, units, everything visitable doesn't stand out as it did in previous Heroes.
The adventure map looks pretty dull when it comes to colours.
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted August 26, 2015 11:37 PM |
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Storm-Giant said:
The adventure map looks pretty dull when it comes to colours.
100% agree. But it wouldn't hurt to increase size of objects a little.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted August 26, 2015 11:38 PM |
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Galaad said:
Man please just look at the critics, what has been said on Heroes 6, what are the reactions about Heroes 7. Why so stubborn?
But I guess it is more convenient to say Heroes 6 got good ratings and dismiss the rest.
LizardWarrior said:
Yet, nowadays, making games is a lot easier. There are a lot of indie games out there, unreal makes it easy as hell, don't deny it, Limbic uses it, I use it and it eases the process a lot. You already got physics build in, drag and drop interface, you can separate level design from actual programming. You don't need to make your engine old style in OpenGL or DirectX, you already got one hell of a tool there. All they ask now is 5% from your profit, also the market is much much bigger, a lot of people got computers and internet now, there is steam, no need to advertise your game God knows where. I'm not a professional, maybe I'm wrong, but I honestly believe that as a big company and coming with a broken game is not an excuse these days. Sorry if I'm being rude or harsh, that's not my intention, I really hope that Limbic can come with a good game on release.
there's not much point lads, with Ubi it's public knowledge that to all things comes a vague platitude or a convenient excuse, but for both parties I think all that will really matter in the end is whether or not the wider audience accepts this game, and the best everyone can do is to agree that we'll see, lol
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Marzhin
Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
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posted August 26, 2015 11:39 PM |
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LizardWarrior said:
Yet, nowadays, making games is a lot easier. There are a lot of indie games out there, unreal makes it easy as hell, don't deny it, Limbic uses it, I use it and it eases the process a lot. You already got physics build in, drag and drop interface, you can separate level design from actual programming. You don't need to make your engine old style in OpenGL or DirectX, you already got one hell of a tool there.
That's exactly why we use it on H7 rather than a proprietary engine like on H5 and H6. Although it still needs a lot of work to make a Heroes game in Unreal. It's not a magic wand.
LizardWarrior said:
also the market is much much bigger, a lot of people got computers and internet now, there is steam, no need to advertise your game God knows where.
These are the good sides, but every coin has a flip side. The Steam market is overcrowded and tough as nails, it's very hard to stand out because so many games are released all the time so marketing and advertising cost more than ever, people pirate PC games with much more ease than before thanks to high-speed connections, and the increase in computer power mean you need to spend much more money on graphics else you get called "outdated", even if your game doesn't rely on eye candy.
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Zeki
Supreme Hero
sup
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posted August 27, 2015 12:16 AM |
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Marzhin said:
- Marketing. It's easier to make cool looking trailers with detailed 3D models. And trailers help the game sell more.
I don't think a trailer that shows nothing related to the gameplay is very impressive when done in the in-game engine(talking about strategy games). I mean that is exactly what the last trailer tried to pull of and all i could see in the comments regarding that matter was "the graphic looks outdated, hope they focused on gameplay only". I mean this makes nobody happy. Why not just focus on showing off what the game's key features are? This way the graphics would look better (as opposed to the close-up shots we have now) and the trailer would actually show the viewer what kind of game he's looking at.
Also about the map object not standing out enough it's true: i found myself wondering all the time whether i'm looking at ore or just random stones.
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Marzhin
Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
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posted August 27, 2015 12:20 AM |
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While it doesn't solve the issue (and I agree it should definitely be improved), you can press Alt to highlight interactive objects.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
