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Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: ~ Heroes 7 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 7 - Discussion thread ~ This MEGA THREAD is 1634 pages long: 1 200 400 600 800 1000 1200 ... 1273 1274 1275 1276 1277 ... 1400 1600 1634 · «PREV / NEXT»
Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted December 10, 2015 02:13 PM

Besides, you mention Celestial Heavens, FYI before the H6 flop that forum had +5000 visits each day, back in the days of even H4 it had literally hundreds of active members (not even close to HC today or even the blog where there is a lot of mainstream players), the series started to decline with H5 already, because on the contrary of what real hardcore players think (and there are not that much, even what you consider "hardcore forums" has its share of noobs, I myself consider I am not a very good player compared to some others) mechanics does not make it all, you're not fooling anyone but yourself here.
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The_green_drag
The_green_drag


Supreme Hero
posted December 10, 2015 02:20 PM

So the game has been dumbed down so that "the majority" can enjoy it more? Interesting. Let's not even mention it was being called "the best of heroes" and has been referred to as "being made for the fans".

Q: why did heroes 7 get such an awfully designed skill system that has no connection to any past game other than six.

A: you're a hardcore fan and just don't understand. The majority likes better.

Q: why are all the units so generic with hardly anything to differentiate them from one another?

A: The majority doesn't care about such silly details.


So I'm gonna take a stab in the dark here

Hardcore fan == anyone/everyone who enjoyed the NWC games +H5

The majority == team Erwin

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frostymuaddib
frostymuaddib


Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
posted December 10, 2015 02:21 PM
Edited by frostymuaddib at 14:34, 10 Dec 2015.

gomaki said:
And alot of them have <2 hours of play. Meaning people literally bought the game just to give it a bad review, that sounds very tin foil hat, but part of my job is going through these reviews and that literally has happened, a lot.


So, you are basically telling that people wasted 50 euros just to thrash your game? lol If I recall, there were many game breaking bugs (and I'm not talking about design decisions, I'm talking about not being able to play the game!), so playing two hours is actually an achievement.

Thank God that I learned from my mistake regarding buying H6...

EDIT:
Oh, let us take a sample and make a list of some gameplay times for negative comments on steam:
53.0 hrs on record
70.1 hrs on record
137.9 hrs on record
63.4 hrs on record
2.0 hrs on record
41.2 hrs on record
3.0 hrs on record
17.9 hrs on record
75.1 hrs on record
84.2 hrs on record
17.1 hrs on record
172.1 hrs on record
14.9 hrs on record
78.7 hrs on record
71.2 hrs on record
4.9 hrs on record
11.8 hrs on record

Average gameplay time 54.03
____________
"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN

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PandaTar
PandaTar


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
posted December 10, 2015 03:11 PM

Of course people won't spend too much time on something they utterly dislike. Is it up to them be forever understanding that the game they bought doesn't work? The matter at hand is exactly how the whole process seems to work with everyone: as there are processes you must follow to have things changed, fixed or worked upon, there's also the outside process to consider. People buy the game trusting you did your work ok, they trusted you to deliver a game they could simply enjoy. If they play the game and it doesn't work, you failed in your process to deliver what they expected, and that means that everything is tangible, since graphics, game play, story to technical issues 'just technical issues' is not 'JUST'. If it was that simple, we all wouldn't be having this conversation. So, no matter if it's a 30 minutes or a +80 hours negative review (which also exist and not too few), in some part of your job you failed gravely, and people who judge the product after a couple of minutes of awful experience are not to be blamed if they complain. You cannot return the time and awful experience they spent, only money. When even that cannot be returned, what can you do instead? Answer the majority is being attended and see if it suffices? Since 5 things are going down, and it's crystal clear that decisions done so far are failing. And I say 5 instead of 4, not because I think and like 4, but it was because since 5 that polishing and understanding seemed not to be looking deeper into the roots, but seemed mainly like an holistic view which is day by day translated in what you call H7 product of these days.

And yes, I agree that a very few portion of fan base visit these sites often, so I wonder how many costumers are left in rage and disappointment when they don't know what to do with their buggy and crashing game, when players had to do a handful of house-made procedures to have a feature work before being patched up, in other words, those who might be screaming and complaining might be those who are voiceless right now.
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Science isn't about WHY. It's about WHY NOT.

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natalka
natalka


Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
posted December 10, 2015 03:16 PM

@gomaki I hope that was not the long answer about SimTurns.

when you do so, can you answer also about the dragon vein?

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted December 10, 2015 03:23 PM
Edited by Storm-Giant at 15:23, 10 Dec 2015.

Sooo Gomaki crossed the line and tried to make up excuses for the poor release? That was bound to backfire...

But yes, we should trust in the team that made the decisions of the game. They had a vision, after all!
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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted December 10, 2015 03:29 PM

Jackie Chan said:
Whatever you do, do the best you can. Because the film live forever. No because you get a raining or because you don't have time... would you go to every theater to tell the audience? No! The audience in the theater go 'good movie', 'bad movie', that's all!

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 10, 2015 03:41 PM
Edited by JollyJoker at 15:43, 10 Dec 2015.

gomaki said:


Heroes 7 is by no means perfect. A lot of people here say it's simply bad, and hey, in your opinion that might be the case.

Look, gomaki, there is one thing you must not forget: H7 isn't the only game in the series, not to mention the only game in the world. If it was a new game derived from the also new Might & Magic X Legacy RPG, lots of people would probably give it a lot more attention and love, and reviews would also be more positive.

However - it isn't, and continuing brands instead of inventing completely new games has the advantage that the deverloper/publisher has an expectant fan community who will buy, push and tout the game. But that comes with a price, and that price is that there are different yardsticks.
I have no idea how often I said that H7 can be everything, except one thing: mediocre. And of course that's exactly what it has turned out to be. That is, if you show good will and turn a blind eye on bugs and oversights, the Alpha stage AI and so on and just look at the sheer game. It shouldn't be boring, and, yet, it is.
You know, the game feels like it was made by a completely new developer via kickstarter and we were all in a playable beta, contributing to the development of some new TBS strategy game.

It would be a lot less irritating, if all that what the community is telling you know hadn't already been mentioned before - at least for the part that was there -, so much so that things got quite heated (and by the way, so much so I'm non-existent anymore, it seems, for both Limbic and Ubisoft, which looks like some kind of petty revenge for me being right with my predictions and harsh criticisms).

The facts are speaking for themselves here, and they say that the game isn't well-received. That's one thing. The much more worrying thing, however, is, that you obviously didn't see it coming, even though you were warned left and right. Even about the AI and how much sense it would make to try and get Quantomas on board.

You know, there IS a way to make both noobs and hardcore fans happy - just make a good game, is all.

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fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 10, 2015 04:05 PM
Edited by fred79 at 16:32, 10 Dec 2015.

when gomaki says, "majority", he means dumbasses who will pay for anything just to kill time.

gomaki, when you say, "hardcore players", you're addressing the actual fans of the heroes series. there's nothing hardcore about us(other than the fact that many here keep buying your company's snow. i am not one of those people, though). we just know what works, regarding heroes games. if you guys at ubisoft bothered listening to ANY of us before the company you represent went off and did their own thing for "the majority"(meaning, their bread and butter, i take it?) when making a heroes game, you might just make something worthwhile, that will add more prestige to your company; instead of merely collecting money from morons, which is what every parasitic corporation does. and they don't last forever, because the ceo's make off with the bankroll's eventually; and leave guys like you in the dust.

i have to ask you personally: where is your integrity? where is ubisoft's? why is it that you guys have to keep coming out with excuses, instead of coming out with a heroes game that is worth a damn?

thank you for your time. i wholeheartedly encourage you to pass this message straight to the head of ubisoft, with a special note to the guys in charge:

keep it simple. it sounds like ubisoft is snowing up the works by having too complicated a job/boss tree. if you were to simplify how you do things, you guys might actually be able to focus on producing a quality product, instead of having to appease a multitude of erroneous bosses and timelines, and dealing with crosswork between teams, which only further confuses things. think of what New World Computing did, with the few they had. THAT'S what you want to aim for. a clustersnow of organization will produce nothing but wasted effort and time.

if corporate or anyone else at ubisoft wants to address me, they can at any time. i look forward to reading your future correspondence here.

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Aionb
Aionb


Known Hero
posted December 10, 2015 04:29 PM
Edited by Aionb at 16:31, 10 Dec 2015.

gomaki said:

Lets take another example. AI.I have spoken to one of the programmers who is involved in this process and he's written a reply for you to give you a bit of insight of why TBS (Turn based Strat) AI is much harder to programmer than say Call of Duties AI (FPS)


A blinding flash!! Meanwhile, on an other planet ...

(Anyway, thanks for your time. However, I completely agree with all points made above.)

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DIEGIS
DIEGIS


Supreme Hero
power of Zamolxis
posted December 10, 2015 05:01 PM

well Gomaki, main reason Im/others are still here is Sim Turns! I think Ubi knows if this wont be a real priority/next patch, nobody will bother for anything like patch/addon or some efreet
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dacian falx behind you
-knowledge itself is power-
www.cabinet-dentaire-malaunay.fr

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Antalyan
Antalyan


Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
posted December 10, 2015 05:43 PM

DIEGIS said:
well Gomaki, main reason Im/others are still here is Sim Turns! I think Ubi knows if this wont be a real priority/next patch, nobody will bother for anything like patch/addon or some efreet


I have pretty no idea why you are so rushing. My priority is to have a good game in final.

And sim turns are much less important than the basic elements of the game. Why? Just because of players playing singeplayer don't need them - but all the players need working AI or less bugs.

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Antalyan
Antalyan


Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
posted December 10, 2015 06:03 PM

About the reviews,it is in this way:
They are useless as the indicator of the game's success because it is not finished.
However, they are a great indicator reflecting people's dissatisfaction with the current state of the game. It shows that the game needs changes and improvements. But it does not mean that the game can't be finally great.
(People often use the argument: "this game is a crap and cannot be fixed, just look at steam reviews". But they don't realise that most of reviewers consider this game to be bad NOT because of skillsystem, townscreens, general mechanics or something like that.
Their decision to make a negative review was -in majority of reviews I read- caused by technical problems (AI, bugs, performance, crashing...)

I only say this game can finally be great. Not that it will be but it can be. It has a potential, a chance. And even the most sceptical people should admire it.

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3lion
3lion


Known Hero
posted December 10, 2015 06:36 PM

gomaki threw the bait to the jackals
____________
Creature Scale mod (patch 2.2.1 compatible)

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Antalyan
Antalyan


Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
posted December 10, 2015 06:39 PM

Also there is a great list of things which should be changed (made by broui). I think Limbic team should consider these improvements.

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1348110-Going-Forward

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frostymuaddib
frostymuaddib


Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
posted December 10, 2015 06:41 PM

Antalyan said:

They are useless as the indicator of the game's success because it is not finished.


If the game is released as version 1.0 or above, and if it is charged 50+ euros, and if you can buy collector's edition, it should be considered finished.

Antalyan said:

However, they are a great indicator reflecting people's dissatisfaction with the current state of the game. It shows that the game needs changes and improvements. But it does not mean that the game can't be finally great.

(People often use the argument: "this game is a crap and cannot be fixed, just look at steam reviews". But they don't realise that most of reviewers consider this game to be bad NOT because of skillsystem, townscreens, general mechanics or something like that.
Their decision to make a negative review was -in majority of reviews I read- caused by technical problems (AI, bugs, performance, crashing...)


True, but the damage has been done already. And also, if you release 'AAA' game with some idiotic bugs (cannot finish level, cannot play multiplayer, etc) you deserve even worse reviews. And there is also one thing to consider: how many fans decided to NOT buy the game, because it is not good? No one is talking about them, and they are not writing steam reviews, obviously.

Antalyan said:

I only say this game can finally be great. Not that it will be but it can be. It has a potential, a chance. And even the most sceptical people should admire it.


Many things could be great and have potential, but that is not enough for admiration. They had six previous games (not counting expansions) to learn from: mechanics, gameplay, balance, release of the game, and yet, it seems that they ignored everything except H6 (they had to recycle from somwhere ). Also, how can someone admire the game that has worse AI than game made 10, 15 years ago? Quantomas made a mod, yes a mod that has better AI, and the devs (who are a team, not one person) are telling us that developing AI is dificult, and compare it to Call of Duty or whatever.
____________
"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN

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3lion
3lion


Known Hero
posted December 10, 2015 06:44 PM

frostymuaddib said:
Quantomas made a mod, yes a mod that has better AI, and the devs (who are a team, not one person) are telling us that developing AI is dificult.

Do you really think that making this mod was an easy task for Quantomas?
____________
Creature Scale mod (patch 2.2.1 compatible)

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frostymuaddib
frostymuaddib


Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
posted December 10, 2015 06:50 PM
Edited by frostymuaddib at 18:52, 10 Dec 2015.

3lion said:
frostymuaddib said:
Quantomas made a mod, yes a mod that has better AI, and the devs (who are a team, not one person) are telling us that developing AI is dificult.

Do you really think that making this mod was an easy task for Quantomas?


That is exactly my point. It wasn't easy for him at all, but he did it alone! And Limbic has a team dedicated to AI, so it should be easier for them.

You probably misunderstood that about devs telling us it is difficult. (my bad writing probably) I don't think making AI is easy, I just find it laughable that team that makes AI for a game, and obviously fails, says: 'ya know, it is hard to do that'.
____________
"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN

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DIEGIS
DIEGIS


Supreme Hero
power of Zamolxis
posted December 10, 2015 07:36 PM
Edited by DIEGIS at 19:37, 10 Dec 2015.

well, Im not rushing at all, but look at H6...after 1 yr and ... dead! But community still playing H5 though, not to mention anything else, but only whats under ubi sign. Nowadays (and much before that), online games are those that gives the path. Ubi had the chance to combine single and multiplayer for a great renewal, but seems they failed because of sim-turns...once again!
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dacian falx behind you
-knowledge itself is power-
www.cabinet-dentaire-malaunay.fr

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Antalyan
Antalyan


Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
posted December 10, 2015 07:38 PM

I say nothing like 'this game's development is great and Ubi did it right". Definitely no. Actually I hate the way of development "do the game asap and then fix it somehow". The only thing I am trying to say is: not to judge the whole game according to its development. The game might be finally great even with the horrible situation after the release.(I hope this is the case of H7). Consider, after releasing patches, you will not play the version 1.0, you are always interested in the final version only. Especially after some time after the development actually ends.

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