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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted July 29, 2015 10:03 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
but all the actual skill descriptions say all friendly creatures including for the base skill. I suspect that's just there because OMG, LORE!!! and they've actually understood that lore has no place when deciding what does and does not receive certain bonuses.
How about reversing, to have the creatures keep this ability without the heroes, who just give out bonuses attached to their abilities instead?
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted July 29, 2015 10:04 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
still, once the bonuses are gone they're practically gone for good.
Are you sure there is no way to increase bloodrage like in H5?
kiryu133 said:
but all the actual skill descriptions say all friendly creatures including for the base skill. I suspect that's just there because OMG, LORE!!! and they've actually understood that lore has no place when deciding what does and does not receive certain bonuses.
I hope you are right but knowing how Ashan works I really doubt it.
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted July 29, 2015 10:10 PM |
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Edited by kiryu133 at 22:23, 29 Jul 2015.
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EnergyZ said:
How about reversing, to have the creatures keep this ability without the heroes, who just give out bonuses attached to their abilities instead?
mind elaborating?
Gryphs said:
Are you sure there is no way to increase bloodrage like in H5?
grandmaster gives all friendly creatures +2 rage whenever any stack dies (and have them start with +2). The only way it seems.
kinda like what they are trying to do here: very OP early in combat which drains away until they're either as good or worse than the rest seeing as other factions don't lose their bonuses.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted July 29, 2015 10:15 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
grandmaster gives all friendly creatures +2 rage whenever any stack dies (and have them start with +2). The only way it seems.
kinda like what they are trying to do here: very OP early in combat which drains away until they're either as good or worse than the rest seeing as they don't lose their bonuses.
And I will assume that there is no increase for damage as it is not mentioned. I guess it really boils down to how OP then which in my opinion might be to high with some of these perks.
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted July 29, 2015 10:38 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
EnergyZ said:
How about reversing, to have the creatures keep this ability without the heroes, who just give out bonuses attached to their abilities instead?
mind elaborating?
Simple. The creatures receive blood rage points, whether they are lead by a hero or not. It is just the hero's abilities that enhance the bloodrage's capabilities with things you already saw: speed, initiative, attack and other things. Same may as well apply to other creatures (say, Inferno creatures able to use gating without the hero).
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted July 29, 2015 10:46 PM |
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I don't like that idea. Racials should just be tied to heroes.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted July 29, 2015 10:48 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
I don't like that idea. Racials should just be tied to heroes.
But I thought you didn't like the racial abilities tied to one faction.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted July 29, 2015 10:51 PM |
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Having them tied only to heroes allows for other factions to make just as much use of them, like haven creatures using gating if lead by an inferno hero. This would open up tons of depth and strategies rather than only having inferno able to gate (no matter what lore has to say about it).
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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alexine
Known Hero
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posted July 29, 2015 11:16 PM |
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Hey I just found a crazy rush combo for Stronghold offensive magic hero.
We need : Bloodrage, Leadership and Firemagic with grandmasters. The key skills are : might over magic, father sky fury from bloodrage
outnumbering and reinforcements from leadership
and the spell Armageddon from fire magic, possibly the skill fire mantle.
Secondary skills are offense, and the fifth can be anything.
In tactic, we use 9 creature slots. 7 main stacks + 2x 1 gnoll. At start of battle, we use the spell armageddon. Because of reinforcements and might over magic, our main stacks will remain undamaged. The 2 stacks of gnolls will die which will give us additional 4 bloodrage charges = +4 attack + some enemy stack can get killed by the armagaddon which means another bonus to bloodrage/attack. We also get additional +1 might for a casted fire spell. With other bonus from Bloodrage and Offense skills, along with good morale(and fire mantle) we charge to the enemy and kill them in 1st turn. Mission completed 
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We´re beautiful like diamonds in the sky ...
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted July 29, 2015 11:33 PM |
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Elvin said:
1) Bloodrage bonuses are ridiculously high. At +9 the attack bonus is +45% and at +12 at +60%.
2) Assuming a unit does not wait or defend, expert bloodrage will last 5 turns and master will last 6 turns. For the above massive bonuses. Moving on..
You do realize the bonus decreases every turn right? This means the h7 stronghold is even more focussed on rushing than the h5 one.
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Can you make a faction including these units?
Join the Finding Harmony competition 2.0!
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 29, 2015 11:36 PM |
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I don't see how that justifies a potential +60% dmg on the first turn that is reduced to 50% the second.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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jhb
Famous Hero
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posted July 30, 2015 01:08 AM |
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Edited by jhb at 01:33, 30 Jul 2015.
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good analysis elvin 
Elvin said:
I don't see how that justifies a potential +60% dmg on the first turn that is reduced to 50% the second.
And once stacks start dying, things get worse. 
They need to revisit these numbers.
@Alexine
Liked your suicidal gnolls idea 
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 30, 2015 02:07 AM |
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Edited by Stevie at 02:07, 30 Jul 2015.
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Aside for the ridiculous numbers, picture this: granted it would get balanced, would it still play as interestingly and dynamically as the H5 bloodrage? To me obviously not.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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hermes
Famous Hero
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posted July 30, 2015 02:28 AM |
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Might over Magic is fine...
At least I need some extra info - does it affect AoE spells? What about DoT spells?
Besides its not like we have magic defense stat like in Heroes 6... And that stat was much, much better as it also protected against magical creatures.
And like someone above stated, that skill only helps you against enemy heroes and only actually useful when your opponent is magic hero AND relies more on DD than on CC spells.
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Raenus
Famous Hero
Grouchy curmudgeon
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posted July 30, 2015 04:04 AM |
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Edited by Raenus at 04:05, 30 Jul 2015.
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hermes said:
Might over Magic is fine...
At least I need some extra info - does it affect AoE spells? What about DoT spells?
Besides its not like we have magic defense stat like in Heroes 6... And that stat was much, much better as it also protected against magical creatures.
And like someone above stated, that skill only helps you against enemy heroes and only actually useful when your opponent is magic hero AND relies more on DD than on CC spells.
Don't you think that a 50% reduction is ridiculously overpowered? I can see no feasible way for a hero who relies on offensive, DD magic to ever be able to win a fairly even fight with that perk, effectively completely removing a play strategy when facing a Stronghold opponent.
Besides the magic defense stat was available to every faction and reaching a 50% reduction was really hard to achieve, as far as I remember anyway. I might be wrong, shoot I hope I am wrong, but I can see no way of it working out in a balanced manner.
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Creature Quest: HaltWhoGoesThere
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted July 30, 2015 04:24 AM |
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My thoughts? I think you give Bloodrage to much credit. Only weak shootrs will ever be able to use the full bonus, since each turn the bonus goes down by 2. The Bonus last 7 turns at best, for longer duratation you have to lose units. It strongly limits Stronghold tactics. Whitout the wait option it is most likely your opponent wll get the first hit. But that might be a compensation for the number of range and NR units in the line-up.
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Tiptoe_McGuffy
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 30, 2015 04:59 AM |
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Personally, I much prefer the idea of bloodrage getting more and more intense as a unit fights and gets hit, working up to a frenzy like in H5.
BUT
Having it start high and fall throughout a battle could greatly diversify the game for factions playing against Stronghold. Factions that normally favor all-out rushes may start using defensive abilities and debuffs. Entangling and slowing abilities, as well as battlefield obstacle placement, suddenly become much more strategic, as every turn you stall the enemy is a crucial reduction on damage taken.
That being said, it might not make a difference since with the boost they can probably blow through PvE like nobody's business and have a way more developed army than you.
Guess we'll just have to wait and see and wait for patches.
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"An Elf can take out a Ranger
any day of the week, but they
prefer to do it on weekends so
they can stay up late and catch
a show afterwards." -H2 tavern
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hermes
Famous Hero
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posted July 30, 2015 07:28 AM |
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Raenus said:
hermes said:
Might over Magic is fine...
At least I need some extra info - does it affect AoE spells? What about DoT spells?
Besides its not like we have magic defense stat like in Heroes 6... And that stat was much, much better as it also protected against magical creatures.
And like someone above stated, that skill only helps you against enemy heroes and only actually useful when your opponent is magic hero AND relies more on DD than on CC spells.
Don't you think that a 50% reduction is ridiculously overpowered? I can see no feasible way for a hero who relies on offensive, DD magic to ever be able to win a fairly even fight with that perk, effectively completely removing a play strategy when facing a Stronghold opponent.
Besides the magic defense stat was available to every faction and reaching a 50% reduction was really hard to achieve, as far as I remember anyway. I might be wrong, shoot I hope I am wrong, but I can see no way of it working out in a balanced manner.
Magic defense in Heroes 6 also affected buffs and debuffs!
Additionally the hero that relies only on DD spells, especially when playing against Stronghold, deserves to be beaten.
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alexine
Known Hero
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posted July 30, 2015 09:19 AM |
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So you didnt want Stronghold in beta huh ? NOW it will be OP in the final release 
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We´re beautiful like diamonds in the sky ...
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 30, 2015 09:27 AM |
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Edited by Stevie at 09:36, 30 Jul 2015.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
