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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 13, 2015 12:50 PM |
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Ups, think I dropped something relevant.
JollyJoker said:
Let's just say, HoMM 7 got the budget HoMM 6 earned.
No way. Since H6 was a financial success, that would mean H7 got an even better budget, opposite of what that quote above suggests.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 13, 2015 01:24 PM |
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If it was a financial success, how come BH is dead?
HoMM 6 had a pretty large budget. HoMM 5 had been a success indeed, with sales being pretty good securing a decent profit.
So they adjusted the budget of HoMM 6 with the aim of increasing sales (which is the obvious thing to do - you wouldn't plan on and for lower sales). The delay cost additional budget as well.
But sales weren't on HoMM 5 level which had 2 expansions.
That in turn means, expectations were adjusted once again. It's a difficult game with a difficult fanbase in a difficult market.
Keep also in mind that Legacy wasn't exactly a success either.
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted November 13, 2015 01:39 PM |
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Well, if the BH post is true, BlackHole killed themselves making the game, so they didnt get to see a penny of that.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 13, 2015 01:56 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 14:05, 13 Nov 2015.
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That's the idea I got. Seems to be a trend nowadays.. I recall some special effect studios with incredible talent being hired for movies that went well while the studios went under. Sad.
While BH's vision seemed questionable at best, I wonder if the game wouldn't be better off with them around. Limbic was not familiar with their code and introducing new content or making major changes was a messy affair. Virtuos on the other hand had no idea about the game's balance as should be evident by dungeon's abilities and gameplay. You should have seen the original abilities with poison-based abilities being harmless to undead and the blackies increasing the power of dark spells for both players. Hello necro, please be gentle! I think evil eyes also had the faceless' puppet master ability and dragons an aura of fear? Lulz-worthy stuff.
Anyways the prospect of sim turns and RMG went down the drain with BH out of the game so there wasn't much point in a second addon. Gameplay would not have changed one bit.. So much budget wasted, meh.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted November 13, 2015 02:35 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
But sales weren't on HoMM 5 level which had 2 expansions.
you nasty heathens can't shake my faith in our sainted lord Erwin, gaze upon his spidery words of spidery truth and despair lol
Sandro400 said:
You'll be pretty surpised, but H6 sold better than any Heroes, even H5. So I don't think they have such a big problems with budget, it's just they're not AAA title, like it or not. Things may change with H7 though.
Verriker said:
citation needed, buddy
Sandro400 said:
It was said by the very man who's on your avatar ;-) During various interviews on Igromir. To me personally at least.
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Aionb
Known Hero
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posted November 13, 2015 02:37 PM |
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Well, if BH didn't get to see a penny out of H6, I suppose that means even more funds for LimboSoft.
Which leads us to: current state of H7 + the availability of appropriate funds = ups
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted November 13, 2015 03:17 PM |
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Since Verriker was so kind to quote me (once again), I feel morally obligated to remind you guys, that H6 gave birth to:
1) Duel of Champions;
2) Heroes Online;
3) Raiders (which were screwed, but looking at trailer, they definitely spend some money on it);
4) the eponymous M&M X: Legacy;
5) most likely Ashan Compendium and that comic book about Cate were also funded by H6;
6) and THEN Heroes VII;
7) and maybe some other M&M game still in development (Clash of Heroes 2, anybody?)
That's without considering the higher-ups of Ubisoft, which are very reluctant of giving Heroes AAA status back.
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted November 13, 2015 03:53 PM |
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I'm sorry but I fail to see how any of this goes in their favor, last news I heard DoC and HO are dead, and neither CoHs or any of their attempts with that IP were (imo) close to the brilliance of the old Heroes or Might and Magic games, and you know just as me it is very unlikely to see MM11, since the world of Ashan is just so appealing to the masses.
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted November 13, 2015 04:10 PM |
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DoubleDeck said:
@ PandaTar and Galaad:
What games are those? Good graphics....
Dust: an Elysian Tail and Ori and the Blind Forest.
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 13, 2015 04:20 PM |
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Sandro400 said:
Since Verriker was so kind to quote me (once again), I feel morally obligated to remind you guys, that H6 gave birth to:
Can't take your word for it. In fact, I know MMX was greenlit in a time when Uberflacid saw an easy profit in RPGs like Legend of Grimrock, so they figured they'd give it a try with Legacy. Never saw H6 earnings as part of the rationale. But even if that's true, it just goes to further prove how poorly they managed their budget.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted November 13, 2015 04:30 PM |
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Sandro400 said:
Since Verriker was so kind to quote me (once again), I feel morally obligated to remind you guys, that H6 gave birth to:
1) Duel of Champions;
2) Heroes Online;
3) Raiders (which were screwed, but looking at trailer, they definitely spend some money on it);
4) the eponymous M&M X: Legacy;
5) most likely Ashan Compendium and that comic book about Cate were also funded by H6;
6) and THEN Heroes VII;
7) and maybe some other M&M game still in development (Clash of Heroes 2, anybody?)
That's without considering the higher-ups of Ubisoft, which are very reluctant of giving Heroes AAA status back.
even whether it did sell well or not, none of that crap is really a relevant argument,
most of them were already greenlit and well underway before Heroes 6 even came out,
it says a lot about their expectations for Heroes 6 but nothing about its success, you could just as easily argue they had to cancel Raiders and gave Legacy no budget precisely because Heroes 6 was so bad lol
also Clash of Heroes 2 anybody ain't happening lol
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Bitula
Known Hero
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posted November 13, 2015 05:08 PM |
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Elvin said:
While BH's vision seemed questionable at best, I wonder if the game wouldn't be better off with them around. Limbic was not familiar with their code and introducing new content or making major changes was a messy affair.
Just FYI. In Hungary salary is very low, programmers are underpaid. Expert developers don't work here. They go out to for example Germany. So what normally happens is that a company hires 90% juniors and like 10% seniors (or people, who just pretend to be senior.) Then they produce these so called "complex" code LOL. In my 20 years as developer in different Hungarian companies 90% of codebase was this sort of "complex" junk type. Yeah Its, complex, lol, because no one understands it, not even those who created it (who usually are long gone, since a developer shifts working place every two years in average here), therefore it takes 10 times the effort to introduce a new feature or change anything, than in case of quality development. So the codebase is mostly just crap. Not keeping deadlines is very common in HU. Of course there probably are exceptions, and maybe BH is an exception, but still it is a fact, that salary is low and most good and talented developers are working abroad.
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted November 13, 2015 05:20 PM |
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GenyaArikado said:
Well, if the BH post is true, BlackHole killed themselves making the game, so they didnt get to see a penny of that.
Maybe that is the reason why H6 was financially successful. Ubisoft refused to pay Black Hole for their work, cause of "bad contract", and then they were able to keep all the money for themselves (and for Limbic)? Only if Bh posts are true of course.
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vitirr
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 13, 2015 05:21 PM |
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That's why the next they did was to hire a company in a well established economic country like Germany, where apparently the coding is great, no performance issues coming from it, and it is full of senior programmers which are capable of implement state of the art AI... but oh wait... 
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 13, 2015 05:23 PM |
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Bitula
Known Hero
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posted November 13, 2015 05:40 PM |
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vitirr said:
That's why the next they did was to hire a company in a well established economic country like Germany, where apparently the coding is great, no performance issues coming from it, and it is full of senior programmers which are capable of implement state of the art AI... but oh wait...
I know nothing about Limbic. But if a codebase is this sort of "compex" code then no ammount of money will help. It is best to drop the whole project. And you do not know anything about Limbic codebase. High amount of bugs does not translate automatically to bad codebase, it is rather the pace of fixing what matters. And, yes, economy does matter. There are more expert developers where there is more money. That's quite simple.
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Bitula
Known Hero
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posted November 13, 2015 05:41 PM |
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Stevie said:
Bitula, have you ever heard of Limbic Entertainment?
Yes, why? I don't know about them more than you. Or you know something special?
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vitirr
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 13, 2015 05:56 PM |
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Hey Bitula, I was just kidding on the situation, it wasn't really a reply to your statement which I can agree with for sure. However certainly the country is not the most important factor here, and bad coding or not, the results seems to be just as bad or worse. At least BH did a game with reasonably performance while Limbic has proved twice that they can't.
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Bitula
Known Hero
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posted November 13, 2015 06:05 PM |
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vitirr said:
Hey Bitula, I was just kidding on the situation, it wasn't really a reply to your statement which I can agree with for sure. However certainly the country is not the most important factor here, and bad coding or not, the results seems to be just as bad or worse. At least BH did a game with reasonably performance while Limbic has proved twice that they can't.
Well as far as I followed the patch discussions they made several perfomance improvements and significantly improved AI in quite a short time. As soon as they make a claim that it's not possible to further improve AI or performance, than it is a sign of bad codebase.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 13, 2015 06:12 PM |
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Well, in case you haven't played Heroes 7, then Limbic appears to be the new Black Hole as far as their coding prowess goes, if not even worse, and that has nothing to do with low incomes and whatnot because they are based in Germany, so it's as good as it gets. The last time they snowed up, namely MMX - Legacy, they put it on the Unity engine. What are they gonna blame now, UE3? The pace of patching is indeed admirable but the game looks only marginally better as they seem to fix some things and snow up others. And even so it is not even close enough to be called a release version. Performance issues, multiplayer not working, crashes and corrupt files, you name it.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
