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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 17, 2015 03:15 AM |
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Edited by Stevie at 03:20, 17 Nov 2015.
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Oh, I definitely feel you on that one. Think it's been a month since I last opened Heroes 7, and unless some sort of miracle happens, I don't think I'll be coming back anytime soon.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted November 17, 2015 07:00 AM |
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DIEGIS, if I finish my map, and I mean the game is fixed to allow me to finish it , we will be arranging MP games all the time I guarantee you.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted November 17, 2015 09:34 AM |
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Edited by Elvin at 18:47, 17 Nov 2015.
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natalka said:
DIEGIS, if I finish my map, and I mean the game is fixed to allow me to finish it , we will be arranging MP games all the time I guarantee you.
why so determined to play an inferior game just because it's "official",
you could just follow and play MMH5.5 which is also in production, is the best gameplay the series can offer
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted November 17, 2015 09:54 AM |
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verriker said:
natalka said:
DIEGIS, if I finish my map, and I mean the game is fixed to allow me to finish it , we will be arranging MP games all the time I guarantee you.
why so determined to play an inferior game just because it's "official",
you could just follow and play MMH5.5 which is also in production, is the best gameplay the series can offer and has a developer who actually respects your time, your wallet and your intelligence lol
Talk about determination, indeed...
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted November 17, 2015 10:53 AM |
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because I am fed up with heroes V and on the contrary I am optimistic about the current installment. I don`t care about the skillwheel because I play full random. What else is there that you don`t like?
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted November 17, 2015 12:08 PM |
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I was just curious, but I guess we have different values,
when I evaluate what to do with my time when I'm not ****posting on the forums at work, I reason it would take a lot for me to get fed up of a game that comes close to perfecting a formula (and continues to get ever closer thanks to the tireless efforts of unpaid fans), and it would take much more for me to abandon such a game to go play a bugged mess that is only a bad to mediocre clone of that previous game at its core,
it's a bit like asking why would I watch my free copy of James Cameron's director's cut of Terminator, because yuck I've seen that film, when I could go pay full price to see Anthony Doublin's Future War, never mind the crappy picture quality and camera work, they might fix it lol
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 17, 2015 12:10 PM |
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Even if you don't have a problem with the random assortment of skills for each hero class skillwheel and the limitations that come with it - what about the braindead magic/spell situation? Don't you think you will tire to always play Earth Magic with Sylvans? To pick the same crap over and over again? I mean, in H5 you had 1 hero type for each faction, but what is the purpose of having 6 of them when you can't even get all magic of the allowed schools?
What about the generic faction creature design? What about the completely imbalanced skills and abilities, what about the non-random "random" skill picking, what about the editor,the map-mod only limitations, the boring and sily flanking mechanism, the boring battles, the inapt AI, the movent speed/adventure map size elation that cries "boring", the ugly, awkward UI...?
Do yo really want to play a game on ONE map only that you modded to a semblance of "fun"?
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted November 17, 2015 02:37 PM |
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Edited by natalka at 14:48, 17 Nov 2015.
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spell system
for MP is better than h5.
One game you creep with storm arrows all the time no problem. The other you get lightning burst, stone skin - ok you can reduce losses with stone skin(not like in h5) then you get from second town lightning bolt - you switch to easier mode now but map is hard enough so you must watch for mana and shooters are always a problem. Game three - happens the same like in game 2 but this time you get the worst possible combination from air/earth - gust of wind, entangle - trust me now the real thinking begins. That were my totally different 3 games with sylvan`s magic heroes. You can play earth/air or earth/water which is quite different in creeping too.
Might heroes play totally different from each other also. I don`t take leading by example because it is only for creeping mostly but I can take it with Jenova because of her GM Leadership. Some heroes don`t have access to offence but stack big defence stats so their battle plan is different.
I will not investigate deeper but the game becomes different even from starting armies
movement speed
movement speed on the map is actually more than that of heroes 5 - only difference is that logistics give only +3 bonus rather than 30%. All that "boring" feeling is UBI`s maps fault. Trust me I was bored before I discovered TOH. That`s a map design feature - movement speed. If you play let`s fight H5 with logistics and in H7 with logistics you will have the same movement - that is what I managed to achieve - guarantee you that there will be no boredom. I don`t know why you compare some UBI maps to H5 experience filled with thousand custom user maps.
flanking
I don`t understand what is so boring about it. I remember clearly one battle with wilgefors in heroes 5. I was necro and he was Sylvan. I calculated carefully every creature`s next step for the first turns because he was shooting nearly whole stacks and I must break his formation to get inside. In the same time I must protect my vampires with the skeletons and in the same time protect the damn skeletons because they are so fragile. But I did it and it was so damn rewarding. Was thinking for 15 minutes before making my first move - he even got pissed - but in the end I managed to win with my formation. If you add in that battle flanking...oh my..it would be one hell of a thinking then.
Quote:
Do yo really want to play a game on ONE map only that you modded to a semblance of "fun"?
Kind of YA! But for this heroes game I hope I will make more maps. In heroes 6 I made only one map and recently when we talked with DIEGIS he said that heroes 6 had battle sites and I reminded him that only my map had battle sites but it seemed his memory of the game is entangled with my map. Jungle Fever is in top 10 on maps4heroes and had more than 5000 downloads I think.
I played heroes 5 TOH maps that were less than 10 in number for several years and back then we had mapmakers who created more stuff because they were encouraged to do so. Thank you for your dedication - Fiur, Insatiable & Jinxer. I think they made the game fun because they made the game(maps) challenging. I now asked for help with the magic vault and nobody gives a damn to answer.
I am kind of pissed that I can`t release my arena map which will no doubt sparkle interest in duel battles but developers have bigger issues on their mind. I even have Vesuvius words to include an "arena" map in the ranking only to promote playing and interest.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 17, 2015 03:09 PM |
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Look, for me it IS boring, because my play is already decided when I look at my starting hero, whether I picked it random or not, and whether I play with "random" skilling (which isn't random at all) or with picking.
There are no interesting decisions to make after that.
Which means, I don't see the game, actually, the game is playing me. I suppose this will be even more pronounced with your map, since it will be something like a puzzle that you have to play the way you intend to and have it set up.
However. That said, if you have fun, that's fine. Can't say I envy you, because there is no shortage in interesting games.
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted November 17, 2015 03:38 PM |
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Edited by natalka at 15:41, 17 Nov 2015.
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Yeah when you decide on your main hero you play with the same skills according to the current matchup. But wasn`t it the same before?
There are interesting decisions on my map - what to build because you don`t have enough resources. And every map has the decision between disciple/djinn channeler town specialization.
I didn`t set up my map. You can beat the block end of week 2 or if you are scared wait for day 1 week 3 and beat it - difference is I will have 1 more Champion creature and maybe grab the center utopia before you. It has always had two main paths for creeping but you can always face a stack somewhere which you cannon beat so you will have to deviate from best path or make a secondary hero do the job. It has very good design thanks to the original creator - i64.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 17, 2015 04:09 PM |
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Wait, you HAVE TO play Academy? Hmm.
natalka said:
Yeah when you decide on your main hero you play with the same skills according to the current matchup. But wasn`t it the same before?
Not really. In H3, while your hero did have preferences, things also depended on the mostly free spell distribution. You'd want Earth, sure, but without the spells. H4 was way more different, classes developing in game, depending on picks, especially since there were a lot of ways to buy or acquire primary and secondary skills. And in H5 every ability taken also meant an ability not available. Think about how, for example Destructive would depend on your mage guild, in turn forcing you to forego other interesting abilities (same with most).
This? Just pick your way to the most OP stuff.
Also - while I agree that MP (does it even work) will make things more interesting in theory, in practise you will always know what you face - no Knight bothering you with Dark Magic, no Necromancer blasting you with a massive Fireball, no SURPRISE there. You know opponent's hero, you know what they will have. They know, what you will have.
I mean, variable skills within certain pattern wouldn't have been so difficult to do, considering it was suggested a long time ago - why so predictably boring?
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted November 17, 2015 05:35 PM |
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You can develop each hero in two ways for sure. There are mind games here , take for example necro vs orcs. If necro player gets a defence hero u have no chance with any might hero so u play with magic hero. Now what will necro play - the defense hero in town or the other that is countering the magic Orc hero but loses to a warmonger. So without knowing opponent choices it will be very interesting.
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DIEGIS
Supreme Hero
power of Zamolxis
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posted November 17, 2015 05:57 PM |
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natalka said:
DIEGIS, if I finish my map, and I mean the game is fixed to allow me to finish it , we will be arranging MP games all the time I guarantee you.
count on me then!
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dacian falx behind you
-knowledge itself is power-
www.cabinet-dentaire-malaunay.fr
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted November 17, 2015 07:02 PM |
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I know JJ understands the mind game but I will explain it here if someone else can't see it.
First assume magic Orc beats def necro , magic necro beats magic Orc and attack Orc beats magic necro and def necro beats att Orc.
I am Orc and have attack and magic hero in tavern. I know the matchup and assume that opponent may get lucky and have def hero so I will have no chance against him and will choose the magic hero. Opponent knows my game habits we have played and he has def hero and magic hero. He thinks : if Natalia thinks I will get def hero she will play magic so I take magic too and win. Then if we return to my decision- last game I showed him how his def necro is not unbeatable so now I think that he thinks I will be playing magic again so why not take that warmonger and crash him first turn because I think he will get magic. Then opponent has second thoughts - ok what if Natalia thinks I will have magic hero for countering her magic hero and actually has warmonger instead , then he picks def hero. Then I can think he had all those thoughts and pick magic hero and so on.
Multi level mind game.
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The_green_drag
Supreme Hero
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posted November 17, 2015 08:06 PM |
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That's a good example of how the skills have way too much an impact on the game. Mind games have no room in heroes.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 17, 2015 08:17 PM |
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Right. It's stone-paper-scissors on a somewhat advanced level, which means the in-between-notes are missing. There shouldn't be hero setups decided right away - I mean, it makes playing a mere execution of a choice made at turn 0.
However - let me repeat that I don't want spoil anyone's fun here. I was just curious.
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted November 17, 2015 08:41 PM |
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in all heroes installments there were decided matchups from day 0.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 17, 2015 08:51 PM |
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted November 17, 2015 10:23 PM |
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Can`t comment about a game I barely played.
I see you are defending something that doesn`t exist. Get something from heroes 4, something from heroes 3, 5 etc. but in reality all those games have flaws just like heroes 7. Don`t understand why you can`t live with them.
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted November 17, 2015 11:44 PM |
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Why are you trying to tell someone how to spend their time lol?
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
