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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 17, 2015 07:52 PM |
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Smooth ^^
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted December 17, 2015 09:34 PM |
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The_green_drag said:
Antalyan said:
But as long as there is any hope for Heroes, I will do my best to keep it and improve it.
Like asking for more ideas from h6?
Although you might not believe it, H6 had many great ideas and news to bring to Heroes. Unfortunately, many of them were badly implemented and some of them (like almost free towntrees or skilltrees) were totally out.
But that is not to the reason why not to use some good H6 features in H7 (at least as an inspiration).
Surely technical problems should be Fixed as the first, until then is everything else much less important.
Unlike you I would welcome H7 to have many improvements because I like many things in the basement of the game.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted December 17, 2015 09:43 PM |
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Antalyan said:
Although you might not believe it, H6 had many great ideas and news to bring to Heroes. Unfortunately, many of them were badly implemented and some of them (like almost free towntrees or skilltrees) were totally out.
sorry in which alternate reality is this, because I can't think of even a single idea or news in Heroes 6 that was widely considered great, lol
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The_green_drag
Supreme Hero
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posted December 17, 2015 09:49 PM |
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I'm always welcome to new ideas in order to improve the franchise. Ideas like area of control. I'm not chill with the ones that bring the game down like flanking and town levels.
And lack luster ideas that only appeared to replace old features (like starting bonuses instead of towns starting with some buildings on certain maps) should be tossed and never revived.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 17, 2015 09:51 PM |
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PandaTar said:
JollyJoker said:
What, PandaTar, you wouldn't pre-order an add-on immediately after its announcement? 
I would only consider if you pre-order first.
Trouble is, as long as I'm doing the loca for the game I'll get a game anyway, so I wouldn't pre-order, no matter what.
Still, smooth, as Elvin says. 
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted December 17, 2015 09:55 PM |
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Edited by Gryphs at 21:56, 17 Dec 2015.
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Wait you are forced to have the game.....that is cruel. 
I am sure this counts as a human right's violation.
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 17, 2015 09:58 PM |
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted December 17, 2015 10:00 PM |
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Edited by PandaTar at 22:01, 17 Dec 2015.
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@JJ
On my end though, as patches and time pass, I get ever more aghast regarding H7 expectations. So, that's a very big NO for me, no matter what. Just checking casually to figure out the franchise's fate.
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 17, 2015 10:42 PM |
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You are all right.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted December 17, 2015 10:50 PM |
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The_green_drag said:
I'm always welcome to new ideas in order to improve the franchise. Ideas like area of control.
I'm sorry but I don't see how AoC improves the franchise, if anything, it only frees you from having to worry about your mines. Not a game breaker, but I certainly wouldn't label it as a great addition. Now the kind of specialities or unique skills corresponding to specific factions as seen in H5 on the other hand, that was something.
What I mean to say is, if one wants to dig up for great ideas this series have had, there are tons of it, and they aren't in H6.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 17, 2015 10:50 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 22:50, 17 Dec 2015.
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted December 17, 2015 10:54 PM |
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Edited by Gryphs at 22:58, 17 Dec 2015.
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JollyJoker said:
You are all right.
So are you saying you signed up for a human right's violation?
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
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Sleeping_Sun
Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
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posted December 17, 2015 11:41 PM |
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Gryphs said:
So are you saying you signed up for a human right's violation?
Some people do. Check McKamey Manor videos. The videos contain live torture, so proceed with caution!
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sobaka770
Hired Hero
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posted December 18, 2015 02:01 AM |
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verriker said:
Antalyan said:
Although you might not believe it, H6 had many great ideas and news to bring to Heroes. Unfortunately, many of them were badly implemented and some of them (like almost free towntrees or skilltrees) were totally out.
sorry in which alternate reality is this, because I can't think of even a single idea or news in Heroes 6 that was widely considered great, lol
Areas of control.
Naga faction.
Everything else SUCKED though.
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted December 18, 2015 02:05 AM |
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sobaka770 said:
Areas of control.
Areas of control sucked and they still suck. They just make the game even more easier.
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"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN
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MoritzBradtke
Known Hero
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posted December 18, 2015 02:52 AM |
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main problem with AI clearly is that it can't play smart in combat... i think this reults in other Problems like AI ignoring most neutral armies and therefore weaker hereos, AI has resource boosts on heroic so it probably doesnt matter if it is producing lots of hereos, i didnt notice that it would not purchase armies because of that but the AI is really horrible in combat, i just realized that, it happens that i choose quick combat on average armies and i DIE, they i Play it again and i have 0 <- looses.... enough said
to be fair this example is on haven, and haven is so powerful if u Play defensive once u have the shield wall from preoritarians, best part is when AI focuses the endless retalation shielded dire wolf... lol no comment
beside AI fixes there is probably Need for balancing here, yes it makes AOE a danger if u idle together but seriously, most of combats are against neutrals without hereos
i dont think it is as bad with other factions but they have similiar Problems but it is less significant but u can see it the most with haven because haven has to Play defensive and AI cant do that
why that happens? because Ai always charges to the enemy i guess, it can't Play defensive, use skills liike shield wall proberly or make sure that noone will be flanked, can't use wait or even defend, it is always moving or attacking, so either u have to fix this horrible AI and that woud require to give different hereos and Units some sort of uniquip pattern, f.e
if preotianer in Group,everyone wants stay Close to him so everyone gets shield, same with chaplain, there has to be a complex line of scripts that will make sure Units act like they should, i'm pretty sure AI is using the same script for every unit and the only Special scripts in the game are about what should be targeted, like shotters first then everything else, and flanking of course, use flanking if u can, i dont think there is much more what is A bit dissapointing but since i dont think that there will be put much work in this after the relase since it's a quite big Topic i belive but it would be awesome of course and important....
however, there would be a an easy way to make thiings a Little better, i'm not sure if u are already doing this for the AI player but u after quick combats' looses are calculated u could just pull off around 50% or more of them, then it would be more viable and Fitting as if u had really played the the combat smart
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The_Green_Drag
Supreme Hero
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posted December 18, 2015 03:13 AM |
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Galaad said:
The_green_drag said:
I'm always welcome to new ideas in order to improve the franchise. Ideas like area of control.
I'm sorry but I don't see how AoC improves the franchise, if anything, it only frees you from having to worry about your mines. Not a game breaker, but I certainly wouldn't label it as a great addition. Now the kind of specialities or unique skills corresponding to specific factions as seen in H5 on the other hand, that was something.
I'm not saying it was implemented perfectly, but yea the concept behind it is a good one. Ironically, it gets introduced when they also decide to reduce rare resource count to 1, so it wasn't needed at all
Now we are back to four but they didn't even get the core game right so improvements are hard to shine.
The fight for resource mines can become a petty game of cat and mouse sometimes. Just back and forth sending heroes to take it back while the enemy keeps doing the same thing. AoC was an attempt to make that less so, which gives it a thumbs up for me. If you think they took away the fight for mines altogether or made it too easy then it was implemented poorly. It isn't the exact way I would have done it, but like i said, they didnt get the core right so im not surprised.
100% agree about h5 hero specs though. That was literally taking the glorious h3 ones and expanding on that. Makes picking heroes a hard and exciting choice rather than narrowing down which one sucks the least. Can't say agree with the second part if you're talking about the faction skills. My own argument may even work here, implemented poorly. But I see them as the reason why line ups and unit stats all became so similar. Faction diversity is hardly even a thing anymore
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted December 18, 2015 05:24 AM |
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The_Green_Drag said:
The fight for resource mines can become a petty game of cat and mouse sometimes.
Not really, the part where you need rare the most is early game when there is tons everywhere + banks, in fact at some point it doesn't even matter much, you just loose some and gain others, but usually just kill enemy scouts, given you have several heroes from the start to avoid loosing time. What AoC does is that you don't need to be so meticulous with the way you spread and chain your heroes on the land, since in order to grant surrounding mines castle has to be taken, from where you can safely defend behind walls.
Is just a different approach, and as Frosty said, more simplistic too.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted December 18, 2015 06:34 AM |
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H7 made AoC good by giving bonuses to being in them as well as allowing all heroes ro "plunder" mines or whatever it was. It's no longer only "this mine is mine".
One could add more siege-options, like trying to starve a population out or blockading a town similar to total war. No resource-income from that AoC as well as giving attackers more options.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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LukaOo
Hired Hero
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posted December 18, 2015 10:04 AM |
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AoC requires different tactic to defend resources mines. Yes, you can think if hero controls main point of area to gain this point is single solution to derive an enemy hero of income. But, you can send scouts also to plunder resource mines or kill opponent's ones. It does not make game easier then before.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
