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Brukernavn
Hero of Order
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posted December 18, 2015 12:59 PM |
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AOC was meant to reduce micromanagement, which it does to some degree, but at the same time it removes one strategic option from the game. That is resource hog. If you were inferior in strength you could option to go for the mines, thereby reducing the income of the enemy and increasing your own. If successful you can end up with:
- The enemy diving their main army, giving you a chance to attach a medium strong hero and reduce their overall strength
- The enemy not able to recruit all creatures from all towns, giving you a chance to take towns with bonus creatures
- Distracting the enemy from exploring, giving you a chance to catch up with your main hero
and so on...
Granted, this is an annoying strategy, but it often works and it's very common in strategy games to fight over resources. With AoC this strategy is not really viable. I think the increase in hero hire cost for every new hero is a better measure to prevent hero spamming and exaggerated hero chains than AoC.
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Zeki
Supreme Hero
sup
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posted December 18, 2015 01:05 PM |
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MoritzBradtke said:
however, there would be a an easy way to make thiings a Little better, i'm not sure if u are already doing this for the AI player but u after quick combats' looses are calculated u could just pull off around 50% or more of them, then it would be more viable and Fitting as if u had really played the the combat smart
But that would be cheating and and h7's ai is too cool for that
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted December 18, 2015 01:11 PM |
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Edited by TD at 13:13, 18 Dec 2015.
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I don't like the implementation of AoC in neither games. I like the idea behind it, it's less running around tagging mines you may not need but don't want enemy to have. Ultimately it takes a lot of time to move the heroes around to tag everything in longer games making it just tedious extra work. What I don't like about AoC is that you can't ever capture mine from other area, only plunder it. I'd much rather have system where you can capture mine in AoC, but in a week or two weeks for example it would revert back to the AoC owner unless he manually goes get it himself earlier. As for the plunder/sabotage, I dislike the plunder as it gives you resources that aren't even there(you are taking them from future production on current date???). Now Sabotage on the other hand made sense and was much better and realistic action in h6, I just wish they hadn't removed that from heroes(yes, I know they moved it to thief guild in h7).
As for the AoC-bonuses, I really couldn't care less about them. The game is already overly easy, it just felt like one more of those things that says: "you don't need to think in this game, you will win regardless of what you do anyway so let's make this into even a bigger stomp by easing your game even more" -kind of things.
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Selpen
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 18, 2015 02:47 PM |
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What's new about The Lost Tales of Axeoth? They said, that Unity will be out before 2016.
Where is Marzhin?
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The_green_drag
Supreme Hero
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posted December 18, 2015 02:51 PM |
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In short, I wish NWC would have had the chance to implement AoC, not Ubi 
Unfortunately (but not surprising), resource management is basically the same amongst factions. Unlike in h3 where castle, necropolis, fortress, and stronghold didn't have a resource silo giving them their needed rare. And even worse, the mines are never spread out. when you find one in an area of control you will almost always find the other three within the same area. Usually a gold mine nearby too. At that point yes, they've made things too easy and boring.
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MoritzBradtke
Known Hero
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posted December 18, 2015 04:29 PM |
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Zeki said:
MoritzBradtke said:
however, there would be a an easy way to make thiings a Little better, i'm not sure if u are already doing this for the AI player but u after quick combats' looses are calculated u could just pull off around 50% or more of them, then it would be more viable and Fitting as if u had really played the the combat smart
But that would be cheating and and h7's ai is too cool for that
i would not call it cheating, the size of the armies is still the same, the result is only affected to reduce the disadvantage the AI has
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted December 18, 2015 04:37 PM |
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Who uses quick combat anyway. When you're so strong that the fight is boring, enemy is supposed to flee.
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted December 18, 2015 05:35 PM |
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Galaad said:
Who uses quick combat anyway. When you're so strong that the fight is boring, enemy is supposed to flee.
I did on majority of h7 battles. The battles were just so boring I wouldn't want to waste time on them unless it showed the losses to be over 20-30% depending on reward and troops lost(specific units). If they re-worked the units stats, abilities, hero skills, magic system, AI, etc. maybe the battles would be interesting and fun like in older games
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Dies_Irae
Supreme Hero
with the perfect plan
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posted December 18, 2015 07:48 PM |
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Galaad said:
Who uses quick combat anyway. When you're so strong that the fight is boring, enemy is supposed to flee.
Unless they live by the "not one step backwards" principle.
Besides, quick combat is a good timesaver for me, at least in H6. I suppose it won't be much different in H7.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted December 18, 2015 08:09 PM |
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Quick combat IS a time saver if you don't want to waste time by fighting stacks which represents little to no threat. However, in previous games stacks would then flee if you let them before you engage battle. At least in H6 it influenced your reputation, not that this was a great thing either.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 18, 2015 08:29 PM |
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Never liked AoC and probably never will. The feeling of parcellated lands in an exploration game is just off for me. Incentive on defensive strategies, less dynamism, crippling the enemy's economy no longer a viable strategy... Nope, having none of that.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted December 18, 2015 08:47 PM |
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I was able to get away with quick combat all the time in Heroes 6, even against stacks with high threat level, and suffer zero unit casualties or one casualty which turned the tactical component of the game to crap lol, it just goes to show how easily a bad AI that doesn't fight back can destroy a game lol
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 18, 2015 08:53 PM |
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted December 18, 2015 08:58 PM |
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needless to say, but ultimately the AI drags everything in the game down (or up) to its own level, the difference in H5 with and without the Quantomas mod is proof IMO lol
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted December 18, 2015 09:50 PM |
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Edited by Gryphs at 21:50, 18 Dec 2015.
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Dies_Irae said:
Besides, quick combat is a good timesaver for me, at least in H6.
It was only good in H6 because you would get tear score for every enemy you let flee which was annoying if you were going for blood; that is why I used it anyway. That and the battles were boring as h$ll in the late game.
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
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Dies_Irae
Supreme Hero
with the perfect plan
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posted December 19, 2015 09:50 AM |
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Gryphs said:
Dies_Irae said:
Besides, quick combat is a good timesaver for me, at least in H6.
It was only good in H6 because you would get tear score for every enemy you let flee which was annoying if you were going for blood; that is why I used it anyway. That and the battles were boring as h$ll in the late game.
In my experience, the battles actually get more interesting with how the game progresses. At some point you'll just walk over whatever neutral stacks there are on the map. Unless creature growth is set to max and you spend months and months of in-game time to finish your goal. The AI however wil have a large army waiting for you. At that point you can decide: do you want to outproduce him and just build up a huge army, or take the challenge and attack said AI on Severe/High?
If there's nothing to lose because it's the end battle you can go all-out, which is quite liberating. You don't have to worry about unit conservation at all. That changes when you're attacked by a Deadly-rated enemy and you have to open your entire toolbox to survive.
All that in H6, I hope H7 will give me similar experiences.
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Selpen
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 19, 2015 09:56 AM |
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So this is how Efreet will look like?
I think they will add him in Infernopolis.
Otherwise Infernopolis will be unbeatable.
Juggernaut > Spider
Succubus > Lamasu
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 19, 2015 10:07 AM |
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Edited by Elvin at 10:08, 19 Dec 2015.
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So, djinn model with juggernaut horns. Horn-shoulderpads look kinda stupid.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted December 19, 2015 11:33 AM |
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Ashan ruins all the creatures I like.
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted December 19, 2015 11:39 AM |
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Edited by Gryphs at 11:40, 19 Dec 2015.
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Dies_Irae said:
In my experience, the battles actually get more interesting with how the game progresses. At some point you'll just walk over whatever neutral stacks there are on the map. Unless creature growth is set to max and you spend months and months of in-game time to finish your goal. The AI however wil have a large army waiting for you. At that point you can decide: do you want to outproduce him and just build up a huge army, or take the challenge and attack said AI on Severe/High?
If there's nothing to lose because it's the end battle you can go all-out, which is quite liberating. You don't have to worry about unit conservation at all. That changes when you're attacked by a Deadly-rated enemy and you have to open your entire toolbox to survive.
This has been how it was in all Heroes games I believe. It is just that I found H6's battle system to be boring which hurt the battles.
Galaad said:
Ashan ruins all the creatures I like.
What about the ones you don't like?
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
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