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Rinveron
Hired Hero
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posted December 31, 2015 10:21 PM |
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Salamandre said:
I mean you started with H5, and this changes the approach to heroes fundamentally. Is like taking the plane, then try the plow.
well yes I will agree with u on that. but I do hate heroes 6 and I dislike heroes 7 (wishing I did not pay for H7) I prefer H3,4,5 they are the best imo.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted December 31, 2015 10:26 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 22:27, 31 Dec 2015.
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Rinveron said:
I love both but like I said in other post I do like H5 slightly more
Precisely because you weren't used to the old games, thus wasn't bothered by the changes in lore (although why not if it's not total crap *cough*Bullshan*cough*), art direction, and the passage to 3D, contrary to some others.
Rinveron said:
But still thought im sure u must agree with me ubi need to make a game like heroes 3/5 and just improve it with good things like balancing things mostly
Of course I agree they should base it on heroes 3/5 rather than 6 as they did with 7 but they can bring us more than balance, they can bring us new towns and creatures, new features, it just doesn't have to be revolutionary to the point they break everything by trying to fix what was never broken.
What they did with h7 is the worst of all, as they tried to recreate what they never understood to begin with, and tried an impossible marriage, leading to inevitable failure.
____________
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Rinveron
Hired Hero
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posted December 31, 2015 10:31 PM |
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Galaad said:
Rinveron said:
I love both but like I said in other post I do like H5 slightly more
Precisely because you weren't used to the old games, thus weren't bothered by the changes in lore (although why not if it's not total crap *cough*Bullshan*cough*), art direction, and the passage to 3D, contrary to some others.
Rinveron said:
But still thought im sure u must agree with me ubi need to make a game like heroes 3/5 and just improve it with good things like balancing things mostly
Of course I agree they should base it on heroes 3/5 rather than 6 as they did with 7 but they can bring us more than balance, they can bring us new towns and creatures, new features, it just doesn't have to be revolutionary to the point they break everything by trying to fix what was never broken.
What they did with h7 is the worst of all, as they tried to recreate what they never understood to begin with, leading to inevitable failure.
(on ur first point) yes I agree I do prefer ashan to enroth I have played both and when I got H5 I was so young I never even bothered with story. imo if it were not for me liking the story of the game I would not of finished H6 campaign or even of bought H7. (of course enroth had its good points) and I know many disagree with me not liking it as much but yes that does go to ur point of me playing it first. However I just like the concept of the dragon gods controlling stuff and them being part of the story and the faction.
(2nd point) yes new factions would be lovely remove stronghold for instance (I don't like that faction). of course the did give us wolf this time but sadly not many liked the idea (including me I do prefer griffins). I wish the old heroes 3 city conflux was brought into a new heroes game. (of course the new H7 elementals are way to powerful) but I thought It was a nice faction and very well balanced.
I just hope for a H8 (if they make one) that combines H3 and 5 together but like u and other say it wont happen and sadly I agree.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 31, 2015 11:00 PM |
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Rinveron said:
JollyJoker said:
Nah, that's bollocks. Heroes 4 is a revolutionary different game from 3. while H7 is just simply a mediocre take on a well-known "formula".
H4 is lightyears better than H7 will ever be.
oh I agree as I am a H4 fan... but it has the same core thing that caused its issues. if both game had the time nad mnoney put into it they would both be even better .
Nah. H4 is a game WAY different from the 3 games before that has issues, but is a brilliant game (with issues).
H7 WANTS to be an evolution of the games before it and jjust offers nothing new or different except bugs. Put more money into it, and I still don't see it any better or significantly different from any prior game - the changes don't work AT ALL.
So H4 is a good game that could have been better with time and money, while H7 is a mediocre game that could be lesss annoying with more money.
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Rinveron
Hired Hero
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posted December 31, 2015 11:07 PM |
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jolly I agree H7 is ubi milking it for money and the ywant it for new player as well. they need to get it in their heads new players wont get this game. they get their money from people who have played for a long long time
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Brukernavn
Hero of Order
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posted January 01, 2016 04:06 AM |
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verriker said:
this is definitely the darkest timeline lol
Community nugget of the day 
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted January 01, 2016 11:01 AM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 11:07, 01 Jan 2016.
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Salamandre said:
I mean you started with H5, and this changes the approach to heroes fundamentally. Is like taking the plane, then try the plow.
It's like playing Warhammer, then playing Warcraft 
As for me, I guess the best thing that can be said about new Heroes installments
is that they make me look at the older games in a better light.
I wasn't particularly fond of neither H4 nor H5.
(And Forge could've been awesome but slapping gizmos
on pre-existing creatures struck me as somewhat lazy)
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Rinveron
Hired Hero
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posted January 01, 2016 12:48 PM |
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Avirosb said:
Salamandre said:
I mean you started with H5, and this changes the approach to heroes fundamentally. Is like taking the plane, then try the plow.
It's like playing Warhammer, then playing Warcraft
As for me, I guess the best thing that can be said about new Heroes installments
is that they make me look at the older games in a better light.
I wasn't particularly fond of neither H4 nor H5.
(And Forge could've been awesome but slapping gizmos
on pre-existing creatures struck me as somewhat lazy)
(ive played Warhammer and Warcraft)
When I said I like new installments I mean H3,4,5 I do dislike H6 and 7 and I agree they defiantly made me go and get H4 of gog.com
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Quantomas
Responsible
Famous Hero
AI Wizard
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posted January 01, 2016 09:18 PM |
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Happy new year to the fans of our beloved Heroes strategy games!
A lot has been said and it is time that we *do* something.
If we wish, we can create a greater more advanced game, a hub like DotA only for TBS, including:
* A spectator mode for arena based multiplayer and an elimination tournament mode
* a superior AI that can measure player performance and a ranking system similar to chess' ELO
* adaptable simultaneous turns that speed up gameplay without turn limit
* a logical expansion of the gameplay rules as we see fit based on a pattern system that allows for infinite combinations
* a superior single player experience that gives mapmakers more options and advances the unique combination of storytelling and strategy that is HoMM's trademark
If we desire we can indeed move forward. Ubisoft and Limbic can become natural participants in the process required (even a rerelease of H4 with an upgraded AI is thinkable), but ultimately we need to be prepared to move forward on our own by creating our own engine and setting up our own professional development effort. Whereas WoG remained tied to H3, we would finally move on our own, create our own Cities: Skylines if we have to.
The AI we need is mostly done. Once complete it will have a competitive playing strength to challenge the best human players, and feature very fast response times because it makes at the start of the computation a sound guess of its best options, so that it will be as fast as H3's nearly instantaneous turn times.
The other tasks are doable and I have no doubt that we can manage these if we put a proper effort into them, not a modding effort but a dedicated professional and reasonably funded endeavor.
The name of this endeavor shall be:
HEROES OF THE ANCIENT ORDER
I will set up a proper project management and crowdfunding website that will provide details.
While I naturally would have waited until the upcoming AI is complete, it deemed necessary in all this gloom that surrounds the release of H7 to set a signal of hope. I don't think we should simply sit here and wait what Ubisoft cooks up for us. The reasons are in this thread.
The situation right now, regarding the AI and my work, is that things are very tight. I had a food poisoning and needed to do a professional detox, which unfortunately delayed the completion of the AI and even today puts additional constraints on the time I can manage each day to work on the project, as lacking funds complicate things even further. But although I can't provide an exact date, the AI is completed step by step, day by day. I want to finish this task first, the work on the project website will follow.
Regarding the discussion of the project, now that it is revealed we can begin to stake it out. But please don't be surprised if my responses will take some time and focus only on the most significant topics as I am working on the AI.
(This message is on Heroes Community *and* Celestial Heavens)
____________
Do you love strategy games? Join us on Discord: discord.gg/JKU6tey
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 01, 2016 09:37 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 11:58, 03 Jan 2016.
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Happy new year! Great to see you around Quantomas. I hope you'll stick with us more. Sad to hear about the food poisoning and I do hope it gets better and you're on your feet in no time.
With regards to this project, I have some natural reservations. First off, iirc there was another attempt by Cepheus and co in creating some sort of spin-off propelled by the community. It didn't end up well. But in the light of this new disaster branded Heroes 7, I can only conclude that a community effort is the ONLY way to redeem the series. Ubisoft and Team Erwan proved time and time again that they are so incompetent and with such an acute lack of vision that expecting anything else from them than a mediocre entry at best is just unreasonable.
Now, if what you're proposing here is truthful and rests on a foundation of competence, motivation and love for the franchise, then an organized effort is more than welcome from me. In fact, I'd be willing to help with donations if nothing else. All I need is to see some dedication, a plan, a motive to believe in you and if you can provide me that, then I'd be willing to believe for one last time that Heroes can be great again.
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Pitlord
Known Hero
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posted January 01, 2016 10:30 PM |
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Quantomas said:
Happy new year to the fans of our beloved Heroes strategy games!
A lot has been said and it is time that we *do* something.
If we wish, we can create a greater more advanced game, a hub like DotA only for TBS, including:
* A spectator mode for arena based multiplayer and an elimination tournament mode
* a superior AI that can measure player performance and a ranking system similar to chess' ELO
* adaptable simultaneous turns that speed up gameplay without turn limit
* a logical expansion of the gameplay rules as we see fit based on a pattern system that allows for infinite combinations
* a superior single player experience that gives mapmakers more options and advances the unique combination of storytelling and strategy that is HoMM's trademark
If we desire we can indeed move forward. Ubisoft and Limbic can become natural participants in the process required (even a rerelease of H4 with an upgraded AI is thinkable), but ultimately we need to be prepared to move forward on our own by creating our own engine and setting up our own professional development effort. Whereas WoG remained tied to H3, we would finally move on our own, create our own Cities: Skylines if we have to.
The AI we need is mostly done. Once complete it will have a competitive playing strength to challenge the best human players, and feature very fast response times because it makes at the start of the computation a sound guess of its best options, so that it will be as fast as H3's nearly instantaneous turn times.
The other tasks are doable and I have no doubt that we can manage these if we put a proper effort into them, not a modding effort but a dedicated professional and reasonably funded endeavor.
The name of this endeavor shall be:
HEROES OF THE ANCIENT ORDER
I will set up a proper project management and crowdfunding website that will provide details.
While I naturally would have waited until the upcoming AI is complete, it deemed necessary in all this gloom that surrounds the release of H7 to set a signal of hope. I don't think we should simply sit here and wait what Ubisoft cooks up for us. The reasons are in this thread.
The situation right now, regarding the AI and my work, is that things are very tight. I had a food poisoning and needed to do a professional detox, which unfortunately delayed the completion of the AI and even today puts additional constraints on the time I can manage each day to work on the project, as lacking funds complicate things even further. But although I can't provide an exact date, the AI is completed step by step, day by day. I want to finish this task first, the work on the project website will follow.
Regarding the discussion of the project, now that it is revealed we can begin to stake it out. But please don't be surprised if my responses will take some time and focus only on the most significant topics as I am working on the AI.
(This message is on Heroes Community *and* Celestial Heavens)
sounds really promising! in my opinion we dont need the heroes franchise anymore. i didnt enjoy the campaigns/story/characters but i really like the gameplay of Hommm (h3,h5 etc.). why pay a lot of money for some name brand if we can create something better under a new name? besides heroes has a bad reputation now since their last 2 games were failures.
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Aionb
Known Hero
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posted January 02, 2016 09:06 AM |
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Edited by Aionb at 09:08, 02 Jan 2016.
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Thanks for the great news regarding your work. All the best to you and happy to see you around.
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BurntPhoenix
Hired Hero
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posted January 02, 2016 12:05 PM |
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Despite continued poor reception to the last two efforts and piled up evidence of distrust towards their development team, ubisoft still makes a profit? (From the pre-order and non-refundable purchases?) Thus that opens the door in the future for a Heroes 8 and what-not worked on by the same or a similarily clueless development team?
I just ask because some of you seem pretty convinced the latest debacle is a nail in the coffin for the franchise- that nothing, barring a predictable h7 expansion or two, else shall be produced (except for the fan-made stuff).
It would be nirvana-like to have this latest Quantomas project come to fruition --- there's no short supply of pinings in the forum's altar of wishes for this fan-backed independent version of heroes that's possibly truer to the nwc games' spirit and quality to be made.
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Rinveron
Hired Hero
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posted January 02, 2016 12:22 PM |
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BurntPhoenix said:
Despite continued poor reception to the last two efforts and piled up evidence of distrust towards their development team, ubisoft still makes a profit? (From the pre-order and non-refundable purchases?) Thus that opens the door in the future for a Heroes 8 and what-not worked on by the same or a similarily clueless development team?
Quote:
If that dev team is generating them profit with that game heroes 8 will be the same as 7 I think
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted January 02, 2016 01:04 PM |
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Quantomas said:
Ubisoft and Limbic can become natural participants in the process required
I'm afraid I don't understand this part of the sentence.
Other than that, Heroes of the Ancient Order is fantastic news and a new hope may rise.
____________
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted January 02, 2016 01:08 PM |
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BurntPhoenix said:
Despite continued poor reception to the last two efforts and piled up evidence of distrust towards their development team, ubisoft still makes a profit?
Well, depends on what you mean profit. It could be a profit of 10$ or 10 000$.
I'm more concerned what will happen if Ubi gets word of this endeavor.
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olorin
Adventuring Hero
tophatchild.blogspot.com
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posted January 02, 2016 01:15 PM |
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Thank you Quantomas!! That's the kind of news I wanted to hear. Getting over Ubilimbic is the ideal.
Quantomas said:
Whereas WoG remained tied to H3, we would finally move on our own, create our own Cities: Skylines if we have to.
I'm not sure what does suppose to mean, but it sounds delicious 
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 02, 2016 01:35 PM |
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Galaad said:
Quantomas said:
Ubisoft and Limbic can become natural participants in the process required
I'm afraid I don't understand this part of the sentence.
I on the other hand understand it a little, and because I do I disagree completely. The idea of potential financial / technical support from Ubisoft / Team Erwin may sound appealing on paper, but if this ship is to ever set sail then I ultimately disagree with the proposition. Let's not forget for one second that the state in which the franchise finds itself right now is their own doing to begin with. I would never accept a "community" effort where we join forces with what practically represents to me "the enemy". Quantomas should know this even better than us, so I guess some further explanation is required.
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted January 02, 2016 02:40 PM |
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Edited by blob2 at 14:43, 02 Jan 2016.
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Happy New Year Everyone! I wonder if my post about the alternate reality, and Verrikers one about the darkest timeline, were the ones which started this discussion on the state on the franchise (Heroes 7 board was getting quite passive nowadays).
On the subject of H4, I only ever have one thing that comes to my mind. If that game was "half-made" and "wasted potential" then I cannot find words to describe what H6-7 are... On a side note I don't belive the story about resigning because of some threat letters. I find it strange and while I heard about the uproar created by the Forge concept (I was also one of the people who were mortified with the Forge concept, but I didn't send any threats mind you). Let's keep it at "bad resource managment" that ultimately brought 3DO/NWC demise...
Great news about Your alternate project Quantomas! Finally something I can look forward to and it might be the first ever crowdfounding project I give my money to (of course if the payment methods will suit me ). But like Stevie says first I gotta see it myself and build some trust around it. I wonder if you Guys will be able to summon some "old ghosts" to help you with the project like JVC maybe? Do you have such connections/possibilities?
PS: As a single player myself I dig that "single player expierience" bit 
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Quantomas
Responsible
Famous Hero
AI Wizard
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posted January 02, 2016 08:10 PM |
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Thank you for your encouraging words.
olorin said:
Quantomas said:
Whereas WoG remained tied to H3, we would finally move on our own, create our own Cities: Skylines if we have to.
I'm not sure what does suppose to mean, but it sounds delicious
I thought everyone knows this. Sim City was a fairly good cash cow for EA. However, the last installment had a Uplay-like DRM, missing features and a plethora of bugs. While the fans were upset, a hitherto unknown studio released Cities: Skylines which took over the turf quickly. Since then nothing was heard of Sim City except that the managers were let go ...
Stevie said:
Galaad said:
Quantomas said:
Ubisoft and Limbic can become natural participants in the process required
I'm afraid I don't understand this part of the sentence.
I on the other hand understand it a little, and because I do I disagree completely. The idea of potential financial / technical support from Ubisoft / Team Erwin may sound appealing on paper, but if this ship is to ever set sail then I ultimately disagree with the proposition. Let's not forget for one second that the state in which the franchise finds itself right now is their own doing to begin with. I would never accept a "community" effort where we join forces with what practically represents to me "the enemy". Quantomas should know this even better than us, so I guess some further explanation is required.
If we indeed embark on developing a Heroes alternative that builds on what we perceive the true core of Heroes, all the gameplay elements that were refined by a generation of devs and fans plus the lessons and best practices learned, we want to maintain control of the direction of the project, no doubt, and financial independence is a must.
But there is a larger space in which Heroes can evolve. Ubisoft has source code, and with the AI completed as a universal solution than can serve all Heroes games, amongst others a Heroes IV HD becomes a fair possibility. It would be interesting to see where it leads. I don't think it is wise to shut the door to these possibilities.
Regarding proof and commitment, more will come with the release of the AI and we have a veritable mountain of details that will explain our work and plans once the project website goes live.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
