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blizz
Known Hero
of temper grace
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posted September 30, 2014 09:11 PM |
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DoubleDeck said:
War-overlord said:
Marzhin said:
Well I wanted Dwarves, but would have settled for Sylvan with Unicorns... 
At least I'll do my best to ensure we get cool Deers.
They will never replace Unicorns.
Agreed.
Also the fact that Sylvan will have two spirit-airy-fairy-pudding-and-mary creatures in core line-up.
Let's hope the game does really well so we get an expansion with unicorn as an alternative for deer. 
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted September 30, 2014 09:12 PM |
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DoubleDeck said:
Also the fact that Sylvan will have two spirit-airy-fairy-pudding-and-mary creatures in core line-up.
Like the sorceress line up with all the "fairy" theme.with the phoenix that everyone wanted because of that. but let me guss now it doesn't matter. -.-
I need to indulge my feelings for a moment. I need to echo my disappointment. I feel like everything I have ever loved about Sylvan has been taken away.
Of course these are just my feelings. I am not masquerading them as anything else.
I am genuinely afraid that what could have been one of my favorite factions in H7 will now one be one of my least favorites. Of course I will try to keep an open mind once the finished product is out... but for now I am genuinely afraid.
I will really miss the units that will no longer be included. I really wanted the Emerald Warrior to be in. I absolutely loved the Root Snake. Of course I wanted the Unicorn or Phoenix. And in all honesty, I despise the deer.
The Fury line-up does not speak to me at all.
I am not saying that it can't speak to others.
I am not saying that Fury voters have ruined Sylvan.
I am not saying that Fury voters are not real fans.
I know that those kinds of statements can be infuriating and I'm not saying any of that. My intention is not to antagonize anyone. I only want to express my own feelings, my own personal disappointment. I was really looking forward to playing as Sylvan and now all I feel is deep disappointment.
THIS PEOPLE! thank you jackson! That's what i wanted when i posted several days ago about the winner.
what do you expect from the other side when you don't react like that? huh? everything you put out there comes back to you.
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Zeki
Supreme Hero
sup
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posted September 30, 2014 09:15 PM |
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Honestly guys, when reading through all this i feel kind of sad. Almost every peace of information that comes through is heavily criticized and thorn into pieces. And i don't even mean the sylvan voting result as i can understand the people's sadness in this regard. If i was a Dev and would read this response after putting all my effort into creating something that should make people happy and give them a fun time, i seriously don't know if i would want to continue to work on it. But this seems to be a general problem in the gaming community, as lately there really have been game developers stating how "fans" destroyed the joy of creating games for them. At this point i would also like to thank Marzhin again as he endures us all the time and still finds the energy to respond to our whining.
On the other side it did have some great laughs reading some of your sarcasm and stuff so i got that going for me, which is nice
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Wellplay
Famous Hero
Poland Stronk
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posted September 30, 2014 09:16 PM |
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Edited by Wellplay at 21:17, 30 Sep 2014.
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Hail Marzhin!
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Stormcaller
Famous Hero
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posted September 30, 2014 09:17 PM |
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To the batmobile!
Are you a woman? Because only a woman could piece together such a reasonable and hate free response o.o
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What makes a King? Some say it is a birthright, while others call it a destiny.
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Brukernavn
Hero of Order
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posted September 30, 2014 09:20 PM |
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Obviously there were a lot of emotions invested in this vote, and it's easy to let them all out when the results are announced. I understand that, and congratulations Fury voters on the victory! Well done
I'm very surprised at the amount of cheating that has been going on, and I want to address that without offending anyone. So for the sake of peace, let's start by assuming that none of the HC members took part in the cheating - that way no one should take this personally 
(1) First of all, the amount of cheating was much greater than I expected, and I'm very glad they finally did something about it. It shows that it is possible to influence the vote considerably, which was my concern all along. We don't actually know the numbers, since they only posted the percentages (and percentages do not translate directly into numbers, as I'll show in point 2). In the end this will hopefully not have changed the outcome of the vote, but we might actually never know that either, as I'll explain in point (3). The important thing is that Ubi/Limbic finally took note of this and has taken measures to deal with the problem. Hopefully they can come up with a good way to hinder cheating, and at the same time not exclude too many real votes. I don't think the solution with one vote per IP is the best one, but it's better than nothing at this point.
(2) I noted many hasty conclusions about the "biggest cheater", both here and on the official page. While Strength had the largest difference in percentage points, that does not mean that they had the largest amount of "duplicate votes". Now, I'm not trying to defend or accuse anyone, obviously all line-ups had a good number of duplicate votes, I'm just trying to explain the difference between percentages and actual votes. And the best way is probably by an example:
Let us say there were 10,000 votes cast in the poll; 4300 (43%) for Fury, 3100 (31%) for Balance and 2600 (26%) for Strength. This would give the same result as the vote with duplicates. Below I've outlined a hypothetical distribution of fake votes with the same percentages as the non-duplicate results, to show that largest percentage shift does not equal largest amount of fake votes.
Total Real Fake Percentage without fake votes
Fury 4300 2800 1500 45%
Balance 3100 2300 800 37%
Strength 2600 1150 1450 18%
Here Fury received the largest amount of fake votes, but had the smallest difference in percentage points. Again, this is just hypothetical, and only to show that we don't actually know which faction received the largest amount of duplicate votes. And frankly I don't think it matters, I just don't want accusations thrown around on false premises. I'm sure you could put up an alternative scenario where either of the three options has the largest number of duplicate votes.
(3) As I said earlier, I hope that in the end the cheating didn't effect the result. You might say we can prove it didn't since the order turned out to be the same with and without the duplicate votes, but unfortunately it's not that simple. Evidence of dubious behaviour began very early, and at that time the effect would be much greater, since the total amount of votes would be smaller. We know that many people changed their vote because of changes in percentages - in all different directions. But this means that a shift in real votes could have been caused by a trend created by fake votes. I know these are many hypothetical, but they are all very plausible given the degree the poll could be affected by duplicate votes.
(4) So the best thing we can do now is to come up with a good solution to this problem, since they asked for our suggestions. Because I'm sure we don't want to end up in this situation again
I'll post my suggestion when I've thought about it a little more.
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Wellplay
Famous Hero
Poland Stronk
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posted September 30, 2014 09:27 PM |
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Brukernavn said:
Obviously there were a lot of emotions invested in this vote, and it's easy to let them all out when the results are announced. I understand that, and congratulations Fury voters on the victory! Well done
I'm very surprised at the amount of cheating that has been going on, and I want to address that without offending anyone. So for the sake of peace, let's start by assuming that none of the HC members took part in the cheating - that way no one should take this personally
(1) First of all, the amount of cheating was much greater than I expected, and I'm very glad they finally did something about it. It shows that it is possible to influence the vote considerably, which was my concern all along. We don't actually know the numbers, since they only posted the percentages (and percentages do not translate directly into numbers, as I'll show in point 2). In the end this will hopefully not have changed the outcome of the vote, but we might actually never know that either, as I'll explain in point (3). The important thing is that Ubi/Limbic finally took note of this and has taken measures to deal with the problem. Hopefully they can come up with a good way to hinder cheating, and at the same time not exclude too many real votes. I don't think the solution with one vote per IP is the best one, but it's better than nothing at this point.
(2) I noted many hasty conclusions about the "biggest cheater", both here and on the official page. While Strength had the largest difference in percentage points, that does not mean that they had the largest amount of "duplicate votes". Now, I'm not trying to defend or accuse anyone, obviously all line-ups had a good number of duplicate votes, I'm just trying to explain the difference between percentages and actual votes. And the best way is probably by an example:
Let us say there were 10,000 votes cast in the poll; 4300 (43%) for Fury, 3100 (31%) for Balance and 2600 (26%) for Strength. This would give the same result as the vote with duplicates. Below I've outlined a hypothetical distribution of fake votes with the same percentages as the non-duplicate results, to show that largest percentage shift does not equal largest amount of fake votes.
Total Real Fake Percentage without fake votes
Fury 4300 2800 1500 45%
Balance 3100 2300 800 37%
Strength 2600 1150 1450 18%
Here Fury received the largest amount of fake votes, but had the smallest difference in percentage points. Again, this is just hypothetical, and only to show that we don't actually know which faction received the largest amount of duplicate votes. And frankly I don't think it matters, I just don't want accusations thrown around on false premises. I'm sure you could put up an alternative scenario where either of the three options has the largest number of duplicate votes.
(3) As I said earlier, I hope that in the end the cheating didn't effect the result. You might say we can prove it didn't since the order turned out to be the same with and without the duplicate votes, but unfortunately it's not that simple. Evidence of dubious behaviour began very early, and at that time the effect would be much greater, since the total amount of votes would be smaller. We know that many people changed their vote because of changes in percentages - in all different directions. But this means that a shift in real votes could have been caused by a trend created by fake votes. I know these are many hypothetical, but they are all very plausible given the degree the poll could be affected by duplicate votes.
(4) So the best thing we can do now is to come up with a good solution to this problem, since they asked for our suggestions. I'll post my suggestion when I've thought about it a little more.
+1
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 30, 2014 09:36 PM |
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Kimarous said:
I wonder... if Griffins are to be campaign-specific units for Haven, perhaps Unicorns will be campaign-specific for Sylvan?
This is actually a really good idea, maybe we could champion this thought with Marzhin, isn't he writing the Sylvan campaign? ;-)
Not only would this "save" the Unicorn, this would also give a golden opportunity for people who want to mod the line-ups to have a creature they feel is central to the faction put back into the line-up?
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What will happen now?
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted September 30, 2014 09:41 PM |
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alcibiades said:
Kimarous said:
I wonder... if Griffins are to be campaign-specific units for Haven, perhaps Unicorns will be campaign-specific for Sylvan?
This is actually a really good idea, maybe we could champion this thought with Marzhin, isn't he writing the Sylvan campaign? ;-)
Not only would this "save" the Unicorn, this would also give a golden opportunity for people who want to mod the line-ups to have a creature they feel is central to the faction put back into the line-up?
Although i like this idea, I fear it falters slightly.
In the case for Haven, they have no "proper replacement" for the Griffin, role-wise. Although they have a flyer, they don't seem to have the fast acting, "semi-ranged" flying unit. So seeing the Griffin within the campaign would be welcome, as they can accurately alter the play-style during the campaign.
However, for the cause of the unicorn and the Deer, I still don't see much difference. They would need to make the Deer wildly different from the Unicorn, so that the addition for the Unicorn is well founded, and actually has a role to fill. If it is just a substitute, then it serves no purpose other than being a different skin.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted September 30, 2014 10:17 PM |
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jhb said:
need to get back to work now.
congrats again Fury!
And for this people sad about the result, I bet you guys will change your mind later, and will like/play Sylvan when it's finished.
Or complain about bugs...
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 30, 2014 10:32 PM |
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Protolisk said:
Although i like this idea, I fear it falters slightly.
In the case for Haven, they have no "proper replacement" for the Griffin, role-wise. Although they have a flyer, they don't seem to have the fast acting, "semi-ranged" flying unit. So seeing the Griffin within the campaign would be welcome, as they can accurately alter the play-style during the campaign.
However, for the cause of the unicorn and the Deer, I still don't see much difference. They would need to make the Deer wildly different from the Unicorn, so that the addition for the Unicorn is well founded, and actually has a role to fill. If it is just a substitute, then it serves no purpose other than being a different skin.
Well there's no reason not to give it a shot, if Marzhin can get it written into the campaigns, it'll be a cool feature for the campaigns, and it will mean a lot for a large group of longtime fans. I know it'll require making extra creature models for the game, but it's worth the shot.
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What will happen now?
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 30, 2014 10:34 PM |
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alcibiades said:
Protolisk said:
Although i like this idea, I fear it falters slightly.
In the case for Haven, they have no "proper replacement" for the Griffin, role-wise. Although they have a flyer, they don't seem to have the fast acting, "semi-ranged" flying unit. So seeing the Griffin within the campaign would be welcome, as they can accurately alter the play-style during the campaign.
However, for the cause of the unicorn and the Deer, I still don't see much difference. They would need to make the Deer wildly different from the Unicorn, so that the addition for the Unicorn is well founded, and actually has a role to fill. If it is just a substitute, then it serves no purpose other than being a different skin.
Well there's no reason not to give it a shot, if Marzhin can get it written into the campaigns, it'll be a cool feature for the campaigns, and it will mean a lot for a large group of longtime fans. I know it'll require making extra creature models for the game, but it's worth the shot.
That would be a very welcome olive branch gesture of good will. Edit is due to the Olive Branch not being quite the symbol I intended.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted September 30, 2014 10:47 PM |
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alcibiades said:
Protolisk said:
Although i like this idea, I fear it falters slightly.
In the case for Haven, they have no "proper replacement" for the Griffin, role-wise. Although they have a flyer, they don't seem to have the fast acting, "semi-ranged" flying unit. So seeing the Griffin within the campaign would be welcome, as they can accurately alter the play-style during the campaign.
However, for the cause of the unicorn and the Deer, I still don't see much difference. They would need to make the Deer wildly different from the Unicorn, so that the addition for the Unicorn is well founded, and actually has a role to fill. If it is just a substitute, then it serves no purpose other than being a different skin.
Well there's no reason not to give it a shot, if Marzhin can get it written into the campaigns, it'll be a cool feature for the campaigns, and it will mean a lot for a large group of longtime fans. I know it'll require making extra creature models for the game, but it's worth the shot.
It's not that they shouldn't give it a shot, just make the two units appreciably different when the shot is attempted. So that 1) people who like the unicorns can appreciate the unicorns being included, and 2) the people who don't "like" unicorns at least can appreciate a different unit with a different play-style.
"Like", as in favored it. I, myself, like the idea of a unicorn, but do not see it as a "core" creature of Sylvan myself. I would prefer it stay away if it is too similar to the Deer.
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Stormcaller
Famous Hero
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posted September 30, 2014 10:54 PM |
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So guys, when do you think we'll get the next voting? Mahrzennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn... 
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What makes a King? Some say it is a birthright, while others call it a destiny.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 30, 2014 10:57 PM |
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@ Protolisk:
For the Record, I fully agree that if the Unicorn were to be included in such a fashion as proposed, it should be very much different from the deer.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Wellplay
Famous Hero
Poland Stronk
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posted September 30, 2014 11:11 PM |
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Stormcaller said:
So guys, when do you think we'll get the next voting? Mahrzennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn...
In 2 days maybe?
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted September 30, 2014 11:22 PM |
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Stormcaller said:
So guys, when do you think we'll get the next voting? Mahrzennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn...
If we don't get it tomorrow, my money would be on Igromir'14.
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jackson
Known Hero
Random Spirit Lover
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posted October 01, 2014 02:49 AM |
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War-overlord said:
jackson said:
I need to indulge my feelings for a moment. I need to echo my disappointment. I feel like everything I have ever loved about Sylvan has been taken away.
Know that I sympathise with you. Very much so.
Am deeply grieving... I hope we'll be happier the next time around...
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted October 01, 2014 05:22 AM |
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Fury won? Yay bladedancers. I hope dungeon wins too
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted October 01, 2014 07:52 AM |
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alcibiades said:
Kimarous said:
I wonder... if Griffins are to be campaign-specific units for Haven, perhaps Unicorns will be campaign-specific for Sylvan?
This is actually a really good idea, maybe we could champion this thought with Marzhin, isn't he writing the Sylvan campaign? ;-)
Not only would this "save" the Unicorn, this would also give a golden opportunity for people who want to mod the line-ups to have a creature they feel is central to the faction put back into the line-up?
Maybe they will make the Unicorn the Hero mount...so that the "presence" of the creature is still part of the Sylvan faction.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
