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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted January 06, 2015 12:35 AM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 00:35, 06 Jan 2015.
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Stevie said:
Terribru disappoint. I don't think the designers understand what we want.
Or they do, but figure there's no point* in trying.
*money
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Kenishi
Famous Hero
passed out drunk in Tavern's
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posted January 06, 2015 07:59 AM |
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Edited by Kenishi at 09:55, 06 Jan 2015.
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted January 06, 2015 10:54 AM |
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Edited by Gryphs at 10:55, 06 Jan 2015.
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Kenishi said:
Well beside the new Town Screen for Haven the town portal system was also explained.
Actually they had previously stated that in Academy's townscreen reveal.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted January 06, 2015 02:12 PM |
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I'm not sure what I find more dissappointing. The piece of "almost nothing new"-News or the continued atmosphere of negativity.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted January 06, 2015 02:16 PM |
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War-overlord said:
I'm not sure what I find more dissappointing. The piece of "almost nothing new"-News or the continued atmosphere of negativity.
One is triggered by the other 
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted January 06, 2015 02:31 PM |
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Galaad said:
War-overlord said:
I'm not sure what I find more dissappointing. The piece of "almost nothing new"-News or the continued atmosphere of negativity.
One is triggered by the other
I don't think so.
The atmosphere has been stinking up this particular corner of HC for almost 2 months now. Even the announcement of "Optional Random Skills" was barely able to aleviate it for more than a few hours. And let's face it, that was some big news. Nor was the token of good will of including both the soundtrack and the lithographs.
Come to think of it, this particular negativity has started roughly when the significant votes ended. When members here aren't spewing bile at each other for "Making wrong choices", and admittedly I had a small part in this myself, they turn their sprays of bile back at Ubisoft, Limbic and whoever else dares touch M&M.
I have quoted this particular tidbit of the fruitlessness of trying to please fans very often and I will do so again.
Ben "Yathzee" Crosshaw said:
because otherwise you're only making it to please the fans. And why would you want to do anything for fans? I mean, I'm a Silent Hill fan and I've just spent the whole review whining like a broken motor. Fans are clingy, complaining dipsh!ts who will never ever be grateful for any concession you make. The moment you shut out their shrill, tremulous voices, the happier you'll be for it.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 06, 2015 03:21 PM |
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted January 06, 2015 03:57 PM |
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Are we complaining about negativity now? Chucks, that puts me in a bad mood... 
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted January 06, 2015 04:08 PM |
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War-Overlord,
Who is to blame, the "evil company exploiting developers and mistreating the franchise", or the "never pleased fans" ?
History tells us three different teams of developers have been working for Ubisoft since HV. History also tells us fans had extremely negative impact towards original developers who provided first four iterations (cf. JJ thesis).
I think is as easy to blame people for being unhappy -why would they care after all, some have only been playing and loving the game for the last 20 years- than to blame developers and producers.
The whole “let’s do the game with community” thing has been extremely unhealthy, not since last two months, but since the very beginning. People working on the game should exclusively focus all their energy towards it, then deliver. I’m sorry for the negativity, I truly am, and I actually struggle every day against it, but imo would only be extremely naïve to think Ubisoft’s policy is targeted towards quality instead of marketing. I’m tired of saying this, is the last time. As an example, let’s have latest news, the town screens, I mean, a dedicated thread was created here, at HC, in August, with the best input from many members on the matter. See the last update in blog ? As Stevie rightly said, nothing changed. Is like all effort is useless. And then, if there is rant, community is labelled as ungrateful. Random skills, soundtracks, we have to be grateful ? I don’t think I am asking too much for considering these should be a given.
Of course I am happy to see new HOMM game coming up, and as I did with HVI, I will do my very best to enjoy it. Although I don’t think criticizing Ubisoft’s marketing policy influencing creative approach should be considered the source of evil. Actually there are lots of things I'm excited about and looking forward in HVII, new Haven, new Academy, 3D seems promising this time, more variety in battlefields, caravans, Limbic in their effort to improve Ashan etc.
Is just that some disappointments don't come out from nowhere.
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Brukernavn
Hero of Order
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posted January 06, 2015 04:19 PM |
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There was a lot more negativity before H6, but in hindsight that was justified. I find most of the "negativity" this time to be constructive criticism, albeit with a critical tone. Some of it is of course individual preference - you will never be able to please everyone.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted January 06, 2015 05:03 PM |
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Galaad said:
War-Overlord,
Who is to blame, the "evil company exploiting developers and mistreating the franchise", or the "never pleased fans" ?
For the negative atmosphere on this forum? The Fans, the presence of people actually involved in the creation of the game on the fora is very small.
Galaad said:
History tells us three different teams of developers have been working for Ubisoft since HV. History also tells us fans had extremely negative impact towards original developers who provided first four iterations (cf. JJ thesis).
I think is as easy to blame people for being unhappy -why would they care after all, some have only been playing and loving the game for the last 20 years- than to blame developers and producers.
I am not blaming people for being unhappy. I am blaming people for projecting that unhappiness in very non-constructive ways.
Being unsattisfied with something is the good right of everyone who buys a product. Wanting to change something, is also one's good right. But I firmly believe that throwing tantrums and spewing bile, is the most non-effective way to do that.
Furthermore, the question you ask rethorically is a legitimate question. Why do people, who love, in this case, Heroes III(the most obvious example), care about something they do not want, in this case Heroes VII, while they already have what they do want?
Galaad said:
The whole “let’s do the game with community” thing has been extremely unhealthy, not since last two months, but since the very beginning. People working on the game should exclusively focus all their energy towards it, then deliver. I’m sorry for the negativity, I truly am, and I actually struggle every day against it, but imo would only be extremely naïve to think Ubisoft’s policy is targeted towards quality instead of marketing. I’m tired of saying this, is the last time.
This is the perfect example of no concession ever being good enough. Giving people an active say in what they are getting delivered, within reasonable parameters, is being done off as a cheap marketing ploy.
What would have happened when, as you suggested, Heroes VII was announced, a few fancy trailers were thrown out, with more and more trailers being release nearing the release date, alongside a fancy graphical website that told you absolutely nothing significant and the game was released? (AKA Tripple-A marketting)
I think people/fans would be up in arms. Because they wouldn't have listened to the fans and what they wanted. In this case the devs and publishers would have made something very different from what we're likely to be getting now. And I firmly believe that that case would err further on the wrong side of satisfactory.
The only way to completely please one fan, is to give that specific fan absolute discretionary controll over everything. And we all know that this will never happen.
Galaad said:
As an example, let’s have latest news, the town screens, I mean, a dedicated thread was created here, at HC, in August, with the best input from many members on the matter. See the last update in blog ? As Stevie rightly said, nothing changed. Is like all effort is useless. And then, if there is rant, community is labelled as ungrateful. Random skills, soundtracks, we have to be grateful ? I don’t think I am asking too much for considering these should be a given.
Are you surprised about this? You are, metaphorically speaking, telling a tree that's growing to the left, to grow to the right, because you do not like the direction left.
And yes, there is some for gratitude. When one is forced to choose between two things one wants, because there aren't enough resources for both, and one get's both anyway; that is clearly a sign of good will. Both the contents of the collectors edition and the optional random skills are examples of this. It would have been perfectly justifiable if you had gotten only one.
Lastly, I think it is unreasonable to want, again metaphorically speaking, $40 worth of product and expect to only have to pay $30.
Galaad said:
Of course I am happy to see new HOMM game coming up, and as I did with HVI, I will do my very best to enjoy it. Although I don’t think criticizing Ubisoft’s marketing policy influencing creative approach should be considered the source of evil. Actually there are lots of things I'm excited about and looking forward in HVII, new Haven, new Academy, 3D seems promising this time, more variety in battlefields, caravans, Limbic in their effort to improve Ashan etc.
I am not criticising you personally. I've seen plenty people with far less constructive attitudes.
Galaad said:
Is just that some disappointments don't come out from nowhere.
Perhaps not. But I have very little sympathy when those dissapointments come from unreasonable expectations.
____________
Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted January 06, 2015 05:19 PM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 17:28, 06 Jan 2015.
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War-overlord said:
Why do people, who love, in this case, Heroes III(the most obvious example), care about something they do not want, in this case Heroes VII,
while they already have what they do want?
Err, because there's always room for improvement?
Fairly straight-forward if you ask me.
---
Quote:
I like the look of this town, it does look medieval. I also like the mountains in the background =) The only thing that doesn`t convince me is Elraths statue. The statue itself is cool but it`s too big (it`s higher than the whole hill the town is built on!). I would suggest to make it smaller and put it at the top of the Capitol =)
And please make the graphic look more realistic (just like in H5, those townscreens are really cool).
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 06, 2015 06:42 PM |
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I think the best approach right now is to hope for a decent*, balanced and bug-free game, and provide constructive criticism on whatever alpha information they release. For everything else, personal wants and other minor issues, there will be mods at the very least, or so I hope.
*decent = rmg, map editor, multiplayer with sim turns, modding friendly.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted January 06, 2015 06:54 PM |
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Avirosb said:
War-overlord said:
Why do people, who love, in this case, Heroes III(the most obvious example), care about something they do not want, in this case Heroes VII,
while they already have what they do want?
Err, because there's always room for improvement?
Fairly straight-forward if you ask me.
Is it? Because what you want is already there.
Let's face it. There are those to whom Heroes III is the best thing that happened to the world since the coming of Christ.
And it is those kinds of people, who are of the opinion that nothing good has happened to the franchise since 1999.
I personally wonder what these kinds of people expect to achieve when they come to the Heroes VII forum and spew their bile. And I think we all are aware of the thread the was posted of late in exactly this attitude.
Since what, I think, such people want is something that is entirely new, yet exactly the same as Heroes III. And since the HD-rerelease of Heroes III that is soon to be released does not conform to those standards, I consider such people to be unpleaseable.
If you want to make something and take Heroes III as an inspiration, fine. Fine, that makes that we can talk about things.
But if all you want is Heroes III, you're in luck, you have Heroes III already.
____________
Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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dark-whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted January 06, 2015 07:48 PM |
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I completely agree with War-overlord. I share every single thought and observation in his last two posts.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted January 06, 2015 07:55 PM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 20:05, 06 Jan 2015.
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War-overlord said:
Let's face it. There are those to whom Heroes III is the best thing that happened to the world since the coming of Christ.
And it is those kinds of people, who are of the opinion that nothing good has happened to the franchise since 1999.
I personally wonder what these kinds of people expect to achieve when they come to the Heroes VII forum and spew their bile.
Kindly direct me to the so-called "bile" on this forum.
Quote:
If you want to make something and take Heroes III as an inspiration, fine. Fine, that makes that we can talk about things.
But if all you want is Heroes III, you're in luck, you have Heroes III already.
My guess is most people want something better than Heroes III.
While later Heroes games have improved upon different aspects of the formula, other aspects have been severly lacking, and H3 have remained one of the most popular HoMM games for that reason.
People being impatient and grumpy is their doing.
They could have waited before announcing the game.
They didn't have to show us anything up until release.
First and foremost, people want a stable,
working product, and it's hard to remain optimistic when you remember Heroes 6.
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted January 06, 2015 08:05 PM |
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Edited by blob2 at 20:24, 06 Jan 2015.
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Hmm while I quite like the Heavens townscreen (they definitely made that art style better in comparison to H6) I fail to see one thing: how does it relate to the more "darker" and "barbaric" tone of the Haven faction in this entry? Maybe a "dirty medieval" look would be too much here, but this holy-and-goody look seems also a bit misplaced.
And, while from my point of view that Elrath erm... statue? is cool, at the same time it's a bit overwhelming and out-of-place. I wonder what it actually is (an avatar, statue, specter, spell?) or will it be animated in some way...
And there is this thing about special buildings. It's a nice idea, they're keeping it up since H6, but I dislike that Zone of Control thingy. By the time you'll use that Diplomacy boosting structure most of the creatures around could already be extinct. Well if they make those ZoC areas bigger (scaled to the size of the map) it could get useful. But in truth I preferred that permanent stat boosting structures of old...
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted January 06, 2015 08:07 PM |
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man, give me a break lol
I think that as long as Ubisoft continues to churn out unpolished garbage under the Heroes name, there will be dissent from fans, er, I mean, dipsh!ts like myself who believe the legacy of the series deserves better
simple as that
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted January 06, 2015 08:09 PM |
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blob2 said:
And there is this thing about special buildings. It's a nice idea, they're keeping it up since H6, but I dislike that Zone of Control thingy. By the time you'll use that Diplomacy boosting structure most of the creatures around could already be extinct. Well if they make those ZoC areas bigger (scaled to the size of the map) it could get useful. But in truth I preferred that permanent stat boosting structures of old...
Maybe the spheres of influence increase over time, à la Civ?
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted January 06, 2015 08:10 PM |
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verriker said:
as long as Ubisoft continues to churn out unpolished garbage under the Heroes name
As if Assassin's Creed or Watch Dogs has been polished and finished. 
____________
"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
